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Excalibur: ISA or EA ship?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Victory and Excalibur were the first two ships built under the Minbari-Human agreement worked out in S5: The Humans build the ships and pay for them, the Minbari supply the technical know-how. The two parties (and the Interstellar Alliance) share in the fruits of the project. That may, in fact, be why two prototypes were built (apart from the plot requirement that one of them be destroyed in the course of ACtA ) instead of the usual one. One ship was destined for the IA (or the Minbari) the other for the EA. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got a question about this; it seems to me that the EA would not recieve these ships. wouldnt the EA would recieve the technology to build advanced ships, but not accually get the some of the victory class ships?

There are two reasons i ask this, first i remember garibaldi say to sheridan that he was going to have the biggest badest ships. second, is if today the US contracted with another country on a military aircraft the other country would get the technology behind the craft. but then they would have to impliment their own why.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>if today the US contracted with another country on a military aircraft the other country would get the technology behind the craft. but then they would have to impliment their own why.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the reverse tends to happen. The U.S. will sell the finished product, but rarely the underlying technology.

Still, I'm just trying to make sense of the situation based on what we were told in the shows, not trying to figure out what is likely to have "really" happened.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Still, I'm just trying to make sense of the situation based on what we were told in the shows, not trying to figure out what is likely to have "really" happened.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that's the crux of the problem. Because Crusade was cut off so early, we have no clear idea about the official status of Gideon, his crew, or the ship. Considering all of the rumors that Gideon may have been going rouge later in the series (and taking the ship with him), I have a feeling the whole ISA/EA arrangement was a definate and important plot point.

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It's the quiet ones who change the universe. The loud ones only take the credit.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Considering all of the rumors that Gideon may have been going rouge later in the series <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is very naughty of me to take cheap shots at speling mistakes, but the idea of Gideon going rouge...
lol.gif


Gideon as a drag queen?
shocked.gif


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Demon
 
It was late, I was tired, and the dictionary was outta my reach. So sue me.
tongue.gif


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It's the quiet ones who change the universe. The loud ones only take the credit.
 
I'm going to disagree about the construction for Victory & Excalibur having All the Top Talent.
Among other things, if a Lot of people of that calibur dropped out of sight for a couple years, people would Notice.
Drake was chosen because, although he was top calibur, he was also either unemployed or Under-employed.
Plus, he seemed the sort who didn't have too many friends.
IOW, it wouldn't surprise anyone if he disappeared. They'd just assume he got a better job and never notice when he didn't send christmas cards.

A large part of the construction, even using Vorlon Tech, would still be routine, same old, same old.
Parts arrive from a factory somewhere.
Joe Construction gets told: Bolt this down, right there. He bolts it in place.
After he leaves, the electricians hook up the power. And They leave.
Then, the techs come in and run tests. Even they are just doing what they've been trained to do.
The Overall Supervisor for each piece of tech is the only one who really needs to know Exactly what it does and why.
They are probably flown out from their reseach & fabrication facility when needed and returned when finished.

For any number of good reasons, each Vorlon component and subsystem is probably being designed and manufactured in a Different top secret facility.
After they are Built, they get shipped to the construction docks for installation and testing.
When you're keeping secrets, it's best to keep each one in a different place.
This makes it much more difficult to steal them all.

The real danger from Drake's treachery isn't the destruction of data.
I doubt he was able to do more than inconvenience the Alliance that way.
The REAL problem is just how Much of that Data he passed on to the Drakh.
They already have a lot of Shadow Tech.
Info about Vorlon tech would help them better understand all sorts of things, even if they never Use the Vorlon tech.
It also gives them info about Weaknesses in the Vorlon/Minbari/Human merger of the tech.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
There is also another place the IA could get ideas of how the excaliber worked. Normally when something is destroyed, you pick up the pieces now matter how small they end up being in hopes they give you a clue to how it works or to what caused the the damage. Even with the ship being destroyed their are possibly people analyzing the peices left over

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We are Rangers
We walk in the dark places no one will enter
We do not break away from combat
We Stand on the bridge and no one may pass
We do not retreat, whatever the reason
We live for the one, We die for the one
 
Yes the Victory. How ever much is left could be analyzed for information.

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We are Rangers
We walk in the dark places no one will enter
We do not break away from combat
We Stand on the bridge and no one may pass
We do not retreat, whatever the reason
We live for the one, We die for the one
 
I doubt much of anything was left of the Victory.
And whatever Was left would be nicely Fried from the resulting Explosions.
Plus, considering that it was Rammed into a rather large chunk of Shadow Tech, it might take a while to decide which pieces came from Where.

The Shadow Planet Killer itself did even More damage while it was tearing itself apart. Very Large Nuclear Explosions all over the area when it launched it's missles into itself.

The scraps are going to be Very Small.

And, considering the size of the planet killer, most of them will be Shadow scraps.

I would expect there to be a few larger pieces of the Shadow stuff floating around though.
Simply because it WAS so big.
And because it was a lattice instead of a solid construction, it'd be more likely to survive because the shock of the explosions would break pieces off instead of crumpling them into a big mess.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
Fray,

I think you mean the Victory. That's the ship that was destroyed in the battle against the Drakh.


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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi
 
True they probally would be very small and brunt crips, but even they are useful. It allows them to seem what happens to the hull and maybe get ideas on how to strengthen them. Plus with Earths wanting to pick up shadow tech, collecting bits of the planet killer would be a plus to them. Ofcouse some probally hit the atmospher and burned up, but there has to be something left..

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We are Rangers
We walk in the dark places no one will enter
We do not break away from combat
We Stand on the bridge and no one may pass
We do not retreat, whatever the reason
We live for the one, We die for the one
 
Thinking about it, I'm not too sure the ISA or even EA would need to learn about the Victory's technology from the debris, since they built it. Some renegades might be interested of course, but officially the technology is already theirs.

Especially since this is the Crusade forum, we should also mention:




<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>

We know from the Techno-Mage trilogy at the very least that some elements of EA have been experimenting with Shadow technology for some time. The odd ship that destroyed Gideon's old ship, the Cerebus, was an Earth / Shadow hybrid. While that experiment turned out to be unstable, the Warlock class destroyers did seem to work.

I guess we should ask which parts of EA have knowledge and access to this technology...

And perhaps all this earthling experimenting with Shadow technology is among the reasons the Circle let Galen out into the universe again...

</font></td></tr></table>




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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi
 
Only some of the VCD Tech was handed over to the EA.

most of the information is safe "obviously backed up" however information on the numerious problems delays general hicups witch comes with building a new ship.... most of thats probly been lost.... these little things add up to a lot of time.

the ship was simply on loan.

ho hum hmm... this almost reminds me of a topic on another board where a guy almost went physcho trying to tell every one else that the warlock was Equill if not better than the VCD, he pritty much clamed the thing had shadow tech in every thing bar the toilets
shocked.gif
... not really to much related i know but the topic has kinda restarted in a new thread Sigh

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G'kar " No dictator no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms .forever.. there is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom...against that power governments and tyrants and armies Cannot stand... The Centauri learned this lession once ... We will teach it to them again... though it take a thousand years... We will be Free!"

[This message has been edited by Cleron (edited February 01, 2002).]
 
It would be hard for people besides those on earth or the Earth alliance to pick up the Victories peices. How many planets would let alien craft fly around them to pick up some top secret material or peices of what was top secret. It would be more likely that they picked up what was left of the Victory along with some pieces of the planet killer.

------------------
We are Rangers
We walk in the dark places no one will enter
We do not break away from combat
We Stand on the bridge and no one may pass
We do not retreat, whatever the reason
We live for the one, We die for the one
 
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