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Farscape S2 R1
- Thread starter ElScorcho
- Start date
GKarsEye
Regular
I watched the ep where they all switched bodies last night. A fun one. The first thing I thought of when I saw the premise, probably not surprisingly, is how to find some private time to have fun inside of a chick's body if I was Crichton. Again, props to the show for not shying away from such things.
Seeing the actors act like each other was fun. The most impressive was Black as Crichton (besides the boob-jiggling thing). She really pulled off a good Ben Browder.
Seeing the actors act like each other was fun. The most impressive was Black as Crichton (besides the boob-jiggling thing). She really pulled off a good Ben Browder.
PillowRock
Regular
I thought that it was interesting how Black's and Browder's versions Rygel were very different from each other and yet both managed to do a pretty good job of capturing Rygel.
The one bit where Browder is doing Aeryn's impression of Crichton (talking to Zhaan via the clamshell) is also interesting. He manager to both do a decent enough impression of himself (meaning that it wasn't *quite* the same and felt a bit forced and overdone) while also keeping the undercurrent of Black's Aeryn.
And at the end you actually do feel a little bit sorry for old Sparky. Who would've thought?
And yes, Crichton alone in Sun's body is an absolutely classic bit.
The one bit where Browder is doing Aeryn's impression of Crichton (talking to Zhaan via the clamshell) is also interesting. He manager to both do a decent enough impression of himself (meaning that it wasn't *quite* the same and felt a bit forced and overdone) while also keeping the undercurrent of Black's Aeryn.
And at the end you actually do feel a little bit sorry for old Sparky. Who would've thought?
And yes, Crichton alone in Sun's body is an absolutely classic bit.
PillowRock
Regular
There are definite similarities and parallels there. As always, though, never expect Farscape and Trek treatments of a given premise to completely (or even all that nearly) track with each other.
I'm coming in late on this, but I loved the three-parter on the royal planet also.
So many great lines and amusing parts to those three episodes. For me, the best part was when Crichton was taken hostage on the orbiting ship by Brakka and the servant. I loved how quickly Crichton turned the tables on them, activated the weapons, and created chaos. Brakka can't shoot him and can't shut down the weapons. The look on his face was priceless.
"Go ahead, kill my sex life!"
"Frell frell frell frell frell frell frell!"
So many great lines and amusing parts to those three episodes. For me, the best part was when Crichton was taken hostage on the orbiting ship by Brakka and the servant. I loved how quickly Crichton turned the tables on them, activated the weapons, and created chaos. Brakka can't shoot him and can't shut down the weapons. The look on his face was priceless.
"Go ahead, kill my sex life!"
"Frell frell frell frell frell frell frell!"
GKarsEye
Regular
Watched it last night. Not bad, not great- loved the premise, but the execution was a bit clumsy.
I don't like the philisophical thread of the ep- the more intelligence, the more cold, less compassionate, and smaller the penis. It's a common thing in fiction that I've found to have no basis in reality. D'Argo tried to console John by pointing out that he was just one possible genetic mutation, but he was still using Crichton's memories and character. John had every right to be upset at the end- he learned that, deep down, he's a bigger asshole than the thought.
And why did future-Crichton have a Southern accent?
The next episode for me, since I already watched the three-parter, is about some monster on the ship. Doesn't sound too exciting. Frankly, I'm just eager to get to the next three-parter.
I don't like the philisophical thread of the ep- the more intelligence, the more cold, less compassionate, and smaller the penis. It's a common thing in fiction that I've found to have no basis in reality. D'Argo tried to console John by pointing out that he was just one possible genetic mutation, but he was still using Crichton's memories and character. John had every right to be upset at the end- he learned that, deep down, he's a bigger asshole than the thought.
And why did future-Crichton have a Southern accent?
The next episode for me, since I already watched the three-parter, is about some monster on the ship. Doesn't sound too exciting. Frankly, I'm just eager to get to the next three-parter.
Heya GKE,
MTC didn't do much for me either, but the next ep. (Beware of Dog) is a great build-up for one of my favourite (and one of the most controversial) eps. of the season (Won't Get Fooled Again), and the ep. after that (The Locket) is considered a Farscape classic by any fan. Can't wait to read your reactions to "The Ugly Truth" either. One thing you can say about Farscape eps., even if they are using an oft-used sci-fi device, they make it fun to watch.
Also, the next three-parter is more of a 4-parter (Kemper and Co. have ended every season with 4 back-to-back eps; note the last 4 episodes of the first season).
MTC didn't do much for me either, but the next ep. (Beware of Dog) is a great build-up for one of my favourite (and one of the most controversial) eps. of the season (Won't Get Fooled Again), and the ep. after that (The Locket) is considered a Farscape classic by any fan. Can't wait to read your reactions to "The Ugly Truth" either. One thing you can say about Farscape eps., even if they are using an oft-used sci-fi device, they make it fun to watch.
Also, the next three-parter is more of a 4-parter (Kemper and Co. have ended every season with 4 back-to-back eps; note the last 4 episodes of the first season).
PillowRock
Regular
A very reasonable assessment of MTC, I think.
Alternatively, it could be taken to be making the statement that there is such a thing as being *too* rational and analytical.
Yeah, and that is one of the great things about Farscape. Most TV shows (whether SF or not) wouldn't want to end an episode leaving the audiance with that thought about the lead character.
Because Browder is a Southern boy?
Beware of Dog. On the one hand it is a pretty standard premise for a spaceship based show, and one that very easily could have fit into the early or middle part of S1. On the other hand, because the the group dynamics have grown and changed so much since then it plays out much differently than it would have then, and that contrast is interesting to see. Also there are couple/few really fun or interesting bits (IMHO, anyway) which I won't spoil for you.
I'm not sure whether you are likely to watch beyond BoD over the weekend, but since I am almost never on the board over weekends I thought that I would mention this now. I believe the next ep after BoD is Won't Get Fooled Again. I will be interested to see your reaction to that ep in particular. The original (and continueing, whenever it comes up) reaction on bulletin boards is probably the most polarizing that I have ever seen. Some people who were devoted Farscape fans thought that it was oneof the worst hours of television (not just of Farscape, of *all* television) in history. Others proclaimed it one of the most brilliant pieces of television, ever. *Very* few people took the "It was OK, but not great" position. It seems to be pretty much a love-it-or-hate-it episode, and that reaction seems to be a predictor of the person's reaction to a couple/few other episodes over the course of the rest of the run of the series. Just don't expect it to be "normal".
(Just for the record: I liked it quite a bit as a change of pace, but am not prepared to declare it one of the most brilliant things ever broadcast.)
GKarsEye
Regular
Yeah, but it was more than normal Crichton.
Well, you folks certainly have whet my appetite for the one after Beware of Dog.
I'm too tired to go out tonight, so hopefully I'll just stay in and have myself a Farscape marathon. I need to finish the season real soon because I'll be very busy all week and then I won't have access to my HT (and I refuse to watch it on a little TV with no good speakers).
If it's a "love it or hate it" thing, that means it's something risky and ballsy, which is already good. I vaguely remember the premise being something about an alternative set of events to Crichton's wormhole accident involving Aeryn as a nurse. Should be interesting.
Heya GKE,
Just a reminder about that warning posted earlier, the order of the last five episodes is:
A Clockwork Nebari
Liars, Guns, and Money Part 1: A Not So Simple Plan
Liars, Guns, and Money Part 2: With Friends Like These...
Liars, Guns, and Money Part 3: Plan B
Die Me, Dichotomy
It's nice that they put the trilogy on one DVD, but they give the unknowing fan no hint that DMD is the season finale and ACN comes before the trilogy.
Just a reminder about that warning posted earlier, the order of the last five episodes is:
A Clockwork Nebari
Liars, Guns, and Money Part 1: A Not So Simple Plan
Liars, Guns, and Money Part 2: With Friends Like These...
Liars, Guns, and Money Part 3: Plan B
Die Me, Dichotomy
It's nice that they put the trilogy on one DVD, but they give the unknowing fan no hint that DMD is the season finale and ACN comes before the trilogy.
PillowRock
Regular
Yeah, but it was more than normal Crichton.
I know it was. I was just playin', mostly.
Maybe he/they wanted something different from normal-Crichton, and not his impersonating-a-PK Australian accent, and accentuating his own Southern was the next easiest thing for him to fall into.
I'm clearly making this up as I go along.
GKarsEye
Regular
Ok, so I just watched Beware of Dog- pretty dull, and the only cool thing was that it brought out the fact that Scorpius is screwing with John mentally, something only hinted at before.
I'm posting now to make my prediction about the next episode, Won't Get Fooled Again- it will turn out that Scorpius is forcing John to examine the Farscape incident so that he will go crazy and/or reveal the secrets of making wormholes.
And now I shall grab dinner and watch it.
I'm posting now to make my prediction about the next episode, Won't Get Fooled Again- it will turn out that Scorpius is forcing John to examine the Farscape incident so that he will go crazy and/or reveal the secrets of making wormholes.
And now I shall grab dinner and watch it.
PillowRock
Regular
Yeah, the other "bits" that I was referring to were really just moments in the performances that I enjoyed: Crichton reciting from Caddyshack, Crichton and Aeryn interacting when he was making her take back the threat to kill the vorc, some of Aeryn's reactions when the vorc was riding on her shoulder, the simultaneous "Sorry about the mess." and slight double take reacting to the fact that they had just spoken in unison. Nothing major.
BoD is definitely a "bottle" episode, one that lowers the overall cost per episode by virtue of requiring no new sets or location shooting or anything like that.
GKarsEye
Regular
Just watched Won't Get Fooled Again and am listening to the commentary. You can put me in the "love it" category.
I can see how some wouldn't like it because it's so wacky (honk bicycle horn here). And with other shows, like Trek, I don't like them getting wacky because there's usually no reason for it or it just doesn't jive right (DS9 characters in Vegas- blech!). But Farscape is so irreverant that an episode like this is perfectly natural. So I enjoyed the wackiness guilt-free.
Lots of funny bits, my favorite being D'Argo in the car proposing his Luxan bonding ritual. And of course I love the bar scene- if you folks ever wondered I'm like, picture D'Argo in the bar but without the tentacles.
Scorpius isn't a very good drummer.
Aeryn looks nice in hose- she should show thigh more often.
I can see how some wouldn't like it because it's so wacky (honk bicycle horn here). And with other shows, like Trek, I don't like them getting wacky because there's usually no reason for it or it just doesn't jive right (DS9 characters in Vegas- blech!). But Farscape is so irreverant that an episode like this is perfectly natural. So I enjoyed the wackiness guilt-free.
Lots of funny bits, my favorite being D'Argo in the car proposing his Luxan bonding ritual. And of course I love the bar scene- if you folks ever wondered I'm like, picture D'Argo in the bar but without the tentacles.
Scorpius isn't a very good drummer.
Aeryn looks nice in hose- she should show thigh more often.
PillowRock
Regular
FWIW: I thought that I would post here a major chunk of a post (yes, it was even longer) that I posted to the SciFi Farscape board during the week following the original broadcast fo WGFA (after the initial firestorm but still during the debate over the episode). Generally I just type my posts into bulletin boards, but this was a long enough essay that I did it on my computer and then cut/pasted it .... which is why I still have it laying around.
(Of course, if I was writing this now there would be a few changes. For example there would probably a few places where I would feel the need to use modifying phrases like "at the time" when describing attitudes and states of relationships. However, since GKE is just working through the series for the first time the phrasing that was in here will work just fine for him.)
There also seems to be a great deal of disagreement about how much of what we see reflects Crichton's actual inner views of the rest of the crew. I have seen everything from virtually all of it to none of it. People with the latter view seem to fall into two camps: those that took it all as a comedy of sorts with many throw away bits; and those that took it as pointless bizarreness for its own sake and therefore not worth the time. On the other side there are those who worry about some of the implications if all of this is how Crichton actually sees the others. My opinion is that there is a great deal of information about the inner workings of John Crichton in this episode. The most important thing to remember in thinking about this in retrospect is the goal and methodology of the Scarran (since he is the one providing the basic direction of the situation) and what that will imply. The Scarran is trying to break Crichton down using these images so they must fit John's perceptions enough to resonate with him but they also must twist a knife in his insecurities, fears, and regrets.
Aeryn is transformed into a doctor; someone who helps in difficult circumstances, even saving your life, but who maintains a certain emotional distance. In this case she orders John restrained and sedates him when he gets too aggressive and excited (even if in this case it is violently directed toward his father). That sounds to me like a pretty good metaphoric description of Aeryn from John's point of view. The twist in this case is that, although she flirts with John ("Buy me a drink?"), she moves much more quickly with, well basically everyone else. This raises the idea that Aeryn's reticence is not something inherent in her but is in fact a rejection of John.
Zhaan becomes a psychiatrist; the modern scientific humanist equivalent of a Father Confessor and a source of non-judgmental emotional support and guidance. Of coarse, in this case her very job is to judge whether or not Crichton is mentally fit. More subtly (kudos here to Virginia's delivery), everything that she says has a bit of a judgmental note to it ("Do you have a problem with people of color?") Might a part of John be worried that behind her facade the several hundred year old, highly evolved priestess finds him lacking spiritually, emotionally, and intellectually?
D'argo displaces DK as John's best bud ("I love hangin' with you, man.") He (D'argo) makes an interesting transformation from a "Man's man" in the John Wayne stern, stoic, indefatigable warrior sense into a "Guy's guy" in the fast cars, fast women, fast living sense. The initial twist is that he is really John's rival for everything in his life. The later parking scene can be integrated into this in a couple ways. Either John has some buried stereotypical insecurities about his sexuality or some part of the back of his mind latched on the idea that D'argo's objection to being John's Best Man was phrased in terms of his being with Chiana and not in terms of anything more basic.
Chiana was in some ways her typical heart-on-her-sleeve self without some of the shadings and self doubts that we have seen over time. However, by casting her as an astronaut groupie the issue is raised, not too subtly, that his insecurity would have him think that her affection for him may not really reflect on him but would have been given to anyone in his basic position.
Rygel is also basically a less nuanced version of himself: overbearing, obnoxious, and self-important. I think everyone can relate to idea that it would be a horrible to have Rygel in a basically autocratic position of power over your life (and that is a fair description of the power of a government project manager after the budgets have been allocated).
John's mother goes from being a stereotypically comforting Mom (after all we don't have the background of individual character development for her that we do for the crew) to actually rebuking him for his more recent actions and for not staying by her side as she died. As an aside, the dying mother scene laid the groundwork for what could be some extremely dramatic moments and scenes in the future. And it did it much more effectively and powerfully than the equivalent expository dialog would have. The Oedipal stuff requires no explanation. The "John's father really thinks he is a loser" bit is similarly self-evident.
John having had at least passing fantasies about all three of Moya's women is not much of a stretch. However, given Crichton's issues about lack of control of his own life and feeling like there is always someone else calling the tune for his actions, being tied down while they all stand over him (one assembling metal probes) has to be the nightmare version of that. Then we cycle back fear of having Rygel in a position of power and control over him (this time with a darkly comic visual).
I have also seen the lack of any Pilot stuff in this episode cited as a problem. I agree that it is lamentable. However, can anyone come up with similar sort of insecurity that John would have about his relationship with Pilot? I think that the fact that they couldn't come up with a good one is why he is not used.
(Of course, if I was writing this now there would be a few changes. For example there would probably a few places where I would feel the need to use modifying phrases like "at the time" when describing attitudes and states of relationships. However, since GKE is just working through the series for the first time the phrasing that was in here will work just fine for him.)
There also seems to be a great deal of disagreement about how much of what we see reflects Crichton's actual inner views of the rest of the crew. I have seen everything from virtually all of it to none of it. People with the latter view seem to fall into two camps: those that took it all as a comedy of sorts with many throw away bits; and those that took it as pointless bizarreness for its own sake and therefore not worth the time. On the other side there are those who worry about some of the implications if all of this is how Crichton actually sees the others. My opinion is that there is a great deal of information about the inner workings of John Crichton in this episode. The most important thing to remember in thinking about this in retrospect is the goal and methodology of the Scarran (since he is the one providing the basic direction of the situation) and what that will imply. The Scarran is trying to break Crichton down using these images so they must fit John's perceptions enough to resonate with him but they also must twist a knife in his insecurities, fears, and regrets.
Aeryn is transformed into a doctor; someone who helps in difficult circumstances, even saving your life, but who maintains a certain emotional distance. In this case she orders John restrained and sedates him when he gets too aggressive and excited (even if in this case it is violently directed toward his father). That sounds to me like a pretty good metaphoric description of Aeryn from John's point of view. The twist in this case is that, although she flirts with John ("Buy me a drink?"), she moves much more quickly with, well basically everyone else. This raises the idea that Aeryn's reticence is not something inherent in her but is in fact a rejection of John.
Zhaan becomes a psychiatrist; the modern scientific humanist equivalent of a Father Confessor and a source of non-judgmental emotional support and guidance. Of coarse, in this case her very job is to judge whether or not Crichton is mentally fit. More subtly (kudos here to Virginia's delivery), everything that she says has a bit of a judgmental note to it ("Do you have a problem with people of color?") Might a part of John be worried that behind her facade the several hundred year old, highly evolved priestess finds him lacking spiritually, emotionally, and intellectually?
D'argo displaces DK as John's best bud ("I love hangin' with you, man.") He (D'argo) makes an interesting transformation from a "Man's man" in the John Wayne stern, stoic, indefatigable warrior sense into a "Guy's guy" in the fast cars, fast women, fast living sense. The initial twist is that he is really John's rival for everything in his life. The later parking scene can be integrated into this in a couple ways. Either John has some buried stereotypical insecurities about his sexuality or some part of the back of his mind latched on the idea that D'argo's objection to being John's Best Man was phrased in terms of his being with Chiana and not in terms of anything more basic.
Chiana was in some ways her typical heart-on-her-sleeve self without some of the shadings and self doubts that we have seen over time. However, by casting her as an astronaut groupie the issue is raised, not too subtly, that his insecurity would have him think that her affection for him may not really reflect on him but would have been given to anyone in his basic position.
Rygel is also basically a less nuanced version of himself: overbearing, obnoxious, and self-important. I think everyone can relate to idea that it would be a horrible to have Rygel in a basically autocratic position of power over your life (and that is a fair description of the power of a government project manager after the budgets have been allocated).
John's mother goes from being a stereotypically comforting Mom (after all we don't have the background of individual character development for her that we do for the crew) to actually rebuking him for his more recent actions and for not staying by her side as she died. As an aside, the dying mother scene laid the groundwork for what could be some extremely dramatic moments and scenes in the future. And it did it much more effectively and powerfully than the equivalent expository dialog would have. The Oedipal stuff requires no explanation. The "John's father really thinks he is a loser" bit is similarly self-evident.
John having had at least passing fantasies about all three of Moya's women is not much of a stretch. However, given Crichton's issues about lack of control of his own life and feeling like there is always someone else calling the tune for his actions, being tied down while they all stand over him (one assembling metal probes) has to be the nightmare version of that. Then we cycle back fear of having Rygel in a position of power and control over him (this time with a darkly comic visual).
I have also seen the lack of any Pilot stuff in this episode cited as a problem. I agree that it is lamentable. However, can anyone come up with similar sort of insecurity that John would have about his relationship with Pilot? I think that the fact that they couldn't come up with a good one is why he is not used.
