Foxtrot: Farscape Miniseries

[Sindatur]

This is science fiction folks...let's face it...anything's possible.

People have been brought back repeatedly, even Zahn, after they were dead.

CE

True, the crystalizing thing was a new idea for Farscape.

I don't think anyone debates that the Farscape writers could find a way to bring back from the dead, though. I think the debate is "Did person X actually die" (even if it's not a permanent situation, LOL)

Having said that though, D'Argo's death (if he did die) was very noble and a hero's death, so, it just feels a little more permanent than some of the other deaths that have been undone.

 

[colonyearth]

I agree, I think he's dead. I also think Jool, D-man and Sikozu are all dead.

This was a real ending of sorts. If a feature now arises, it will begin with a mostly clean slate.

CE

 

[PillowRock]

People have been brought back repeatedly, even Zahn, after they were dead.

Zhaan reappeared as a voice in Stark's head and as a character in vitual reality video game created by Stark. I hardly count that as returning from the dead. Being in the science fiction or fantasy genres is not required for that kind of guest appearance by a dead character.

The only time that I can remember in Farscape when death wasn't permanent was Aeryn's in the S2 cliffhanger and S3 premiere. "Spare" copies of John, D'Argo, and Chiana were killed off after they were "twinned" in Eat Me, and those "twins" all stayed dead. Rygel's apparent corpse in A Human Reaction turned out to be a hologram. Aeryn's death in The Locket ended up being an alternate timeline from everything else that we have seen since.

To be sure, the have plenty times when the audiance or the characters (or both) thought (for various lengths of time) that someone was dead, even though they had been alive the last time they had been seen. But in those cases it always turned out that they never died and there was some explanation, whether it was that Crais just lied about executing Xhalax or whatever. Again, that doesn't require SF or fantasy, although it does sometimes make the explanantions easier to swallow.

I think that TPTB at Farscape want to keep Aeryn's resurrection a special, singular event.

So the question returns to: "Do you think that it is possible that the characters actually avoided dieing?"

And I just think that D'Argo is the least likely to have not died. He is the one that I see the least reasonable explanantion for how they might have avoided death, and whose specific *death* was the biggest deal in the show that I think the writers are least like to want to mess with from a dramatic writing POV.


None of that has anything to do with seeing D'Argo in dreams, flashbacks, hallucinations, video games, bioloid replicant, or other such repsentations that are not the actual D'Argo.


EDIT: to add:
I just remembered Starks re-materialization. However, that was also a case where they just came out and told you in advance that Stark's Stacheri (sp?) nature might allow him to do that, so I tend to think about that differently.

 

[vacantlook]

This is science fiction folks...let's face it...anything's possible.

Exactly.

Personally, I accept what I'm given until it's taken away in scifi stories (most of the time). It's difficult to have the will power when being a writer, I personally think, to leave a major character dead. And science fiction and fantasy both tend to be apt to enabling writers to bring characters back from death endlessly if desired.

Anthony Simcoe has said since the mini that D'Argo is dead, that he argued against killing D'Argo for a while, but did eventually agree it would be dramatically appropriate for the story. But of course, nearly as soon as it was found he's said this, there were people saying he's just telling us that to try and keep us off or that he's been told D'Argo's permanently dead so he won't be capable of spoiling it to the public a la keeping Vader being Luke's father a secret from nearly everyone until it was revealed.

There will always be people who'll always love a character so much that they'll endlessly believe that character isn't permanently dead if it's portrayed that a death happened in a story. Part of that, I think, does come out of our having been conditioned by writers that death doesn't end a character if the writers decide to bring the character back.

 

[GKarsEye]

If D'Argo isn't "really dead," it makes his sacrifice, Chiana's emotional torture, and naming the baby after him meaningless.

Here's an argument I got into with my sister: when John was making the wormhole weapon disappear, did the Einstein take away all his wormhole knowledge, just the stuff about the weapon, or none of it? I contend that it's all gone, otherwise he would eventually have Scarrans, Peacekeepers and Scorpius chasing his ass all over again.

 

[Markas]

I agree that he took it all. It only makes sense. It's not safe in his head.

 

[PillowRock]

I agree that he took it all. It only makes sense. It's not safe in his head.

Agreed. Even if he "only" had the knowledge and abilities that he had before (knowing where and when wormholes would appear and being able to navigate to desired places), that would still be enough of a military advantage that Scorpy would be after it, and Harvey wouldn't have removed himself.

 

[Sindatur]

Grabbed this off Frell Me Dead site. Aposter got this email apparently.

The incredible mini-series that Scapers have demanded is now coming to DVD for release January 18, 2005. And, when you pre-order your copy (hot off the presses) from Creation we're offering an OUTRAGEOUS special exclusive that makes us THE place to get your copy!

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- "The Making of The Peacekeeper Wars " (30-minutes)
- Interactive Conceptual Art Gallery
- Authentic Production Storyboards
- Spacecraft Gallery
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The specs on this are: Widescreen Video, English 5.1 Dolby Audio, English 2.0 Surround Audio, and English & Spanish Subtitles.

AND HERE'S THE CREATION EXCLUSIVE: Every order will include a hand signed autographed licensed Farscape photo! That's right: EVERY order will get an autographed photo and it gets even better: ONE in TWENTY-FIVE orders (selected randomly) will include a Ben Browder or a Claudia Black or a photo signed by both Ben and Claudia. These autographs are VERY tough to get, so this is quite the deal! But remember, EVERYONE is a winner!

This special offer is time-limited, so order today for only $19.98 by visiting us online!

THIS OFFER IS ONLY VALID FOR FANS LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA.

Thanks,

Your friends at Creation Entertainment
------------------------------------------------

 

[Recoil]

If D'Argo isn't "really dead," it makes his sacrifice, Chiana's emotional torture, and naming the baby after him meaningless.

I finally got around to seeing this. I agree, I think for sure D'Argo is dead, along with Jool.

However, I got the distinct impression that Sikozu was still alive when Grunchik found her. She seemed chained up, and I also thought I saw her lift her head up to look at him.

Speaking of Sikozu, on one hand I sort of figured her as a Scarrin spy, as she did that trick in a late S4 episode where she melted a control as a Scarrin would. On the other hand, an episode or two later, she killed a bunch of Scarrin's with her genetic trick and also allowed the destruction of those flowers, which makes her switch back to helping Scarrins seem odd. But I guess its believable considering there wasnt much she could do to stop it...

Here's an argument I got into with my sister: when John was making the wormhole weapon disappear, did the Einstein take away all his wormhole knowledge, just the stuff about the weapon, or none of it? I contend that it's all gone, otherwise he would eventually have Scarrans, Peacekeepers and Scorpius chasing his ass all over again.

I assumed he took it all as well. Although I thought I heard the dying Harvey say he was dying because Einstein took the Wormhole WEAPON knowledge away. To me it makes more sense that he took it all, as earlier in the miniseries he said he might have to do that.

One final thing Im hoping fans of the show can answer for me...and thats the Season 4 finale where Crichton closes the "wormhole to Earth."

First, I do believe that is the same wormhole he initially used to go meet Einstein, because if you remember after that he ended up visiting Earth. It was all from that same point...yet later he, by entering a different wormhole, still could find Einstein.

Second, I remember an earlier episode explaining how the wormholes are all interconnected and a network anyway, and were explained that as long as you enter the system...you can get anywhere. So how could only closing one seal off Earth? If he used a different one to get back to Einstein, he could use a different one to get to Earth if he knew how. Its not like that wormhole was there specifically to get to Earth. Thats the issue I always had with the Scarrins going to Earth...if they didnt know how to NAVIGATE the wormholes they could never have gotten there. So it seems that the path to Earth is always there if you know how to navigate it.

Of course, given that theres now peace...maybe theres no longer a reason to keep things closed off for much longer.

----

All in all though, good miniseries and a good series ending. Yea of course it seemed rushed, but thats what happens when you are forced to compact 22 "1 hour" episodes into 4 hours. They did as good as they could have, and I think they ended the series very well.

 

[PillowRock]

Well, here is my understanding of that bit of the wormhole mythology of Farscape (though it could obviously be further clarified, or shown to be wrong, by subsequent writings or fuure minis / movies):

If you are the Ancients, or late S4 Crichton, you can get anywhere / anywhen / any-unrealized reality via wormholes. That requires some knowledge of and /or sense of wormholes that is beyond what anybody among the "younger races" (to borrow a B5 phrase) has, except for JC whose mind has been touched by the Ancients.

For anyone else (S1 Crichton, the PK's, the Scarrans, etc.) the wormholes are a much more finite tube system that they can follow and pop out the other end. They can go where they can go, and can navigate to a degree via the branches in the wormhole system; but don't have the knowledge or ability to impose their will to make the wormhole go to any place or time that they might wish.

By that reasoning, the Ancients could still go to Earth any time that they wanted, but John isn't worried about them. He is worries about the PK's, Scarrans, and other such nasties. Those groups can't go anywhere where there isn't an opening from the wormhole web.

It is a bit like Sheridan's destruction of the Markab jump gate, if you just focus on the part of his reasoning that had to do with people looting the dead Markab home world. Destroying the gate doesn't really make it so that *nobody* can go there any more. However, it does pretty effectively stop the groups that he is worried about.


Granted some of this is sorta interpolated in the gaps of what is actually stated in the show. So it may eventually turn out to be wrong. However, that's my take on how the facts that we have have been given feel like they fit together and make some sense.

 

[GKarsEye]

Also, when Scorpius threatened to attack Earth, he was willing to not use any wormholes... that is, taking decades to get there. Maybe the Scarrans meant the same thing? I don't remember, but it wouldn't be out of character for them.

 

[Recoil]

Pillow,

Makes sense, but one thing that always made me wonder...why the hell didn't Crichton just go back to where he "popped" into that side of the Galaxy and use the same wormhole once he figured out how to use them?

I mean, he was fleeing around the Uncharted territories from the PK and Scarrins, but now that things are settling down, I would think the straight pipe approach would work from there.

I guess there are a hundered ways to look at this, and they CAN do whatever they want if they ever release another miniseries or movie or whatever. Farscape has had no issues just "doing" things with the story, no matter whether the science involved is there or not. It always has been a purely fantasy Sci-Fi series, which was one of the reasons it had a nice appeal to me. I guess this is the wrong type of show to get into these discussions about. B5 always tried to be as "realistic" as possible. Farscape never even attempted to, in fact they went to lengths sometimes to make such wacky things happen and then make jokes about "I'm sure theres some technobabble that could explain what happened" which I always was amused by. I guess theres no real point in looking to deep into this.

 

[Sindatur]

Amazon.Com, now has the DVD of Peacekeeper Wars up for Pre-Order, to be released in January.