Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

[Alluveal]

In the EW article (at least I think that's where it was) RM stated clearly that Starbuck was NOT a cylon. He also stated that the 5th cylon was not in "the last supper" picture.

Moore has been known to lie outright in the past. =) I'm not taking anything he says as canon right now.

I can't compare Baltar to G'Kar. He has hints of humanity within him, but the difference is, each time we give Baltar the chance to do the right thing, he always fracks up. Great, he prayed over a boy, I think it was all for show. Only an hour before he was boffing some cult hottie because it was a quick lay. While G'kar might have had an eye for the human ladies (same as Baltar) and had his share of acting selfishly and with vengeance, you could sense that he had a lot more depth. I'm not saying Baltar lacks depth. He has dimensions within dimensions, but I have yet to find one that doesn't include what he gets out of a situation.

Even with Pegasix, when he was there to help her, to coax her back, so to say, he ended up taking advantage of her sexually in a future episode, though she was clearly damaged and in severe emotionally distress.

Admittingly, it's why I like Baltar. He's so flawed. I'd like to see him redeemed, but it will take more than a fluke prayer to do that. With G'kar, the episode where he aided Catherine Sakai (season One) gave me enough to show me that this guy is "not exactly as he appeared."

Can't say the same about Baltar, and it's season 4.

I do agree with you on Season 3. Rewatching it has been very helpful. It's grown on me.

I also wonder about Dee and now I'm starting to wonder about Doc. =) He'd be a great #1. =) (given that he would be #1.)

Romo is another possibility given that Baltar's release would (I think) always be an ace up the cylon's sleeve--how, I have no idea.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

Are you certain that the Cylon is a person?
It not say one of the ships?

 

[GKarsEye]

Are you certain that the Cylon is a person?
It not say one of the ships?

Holy $hit that would be awesome if the 5th Cylon was the battlestar Galactica.

 

[Galahad]

Maybe Bob Dylan is the fifth cylon...

... think about it... the lyrics of his song triggers the awakening of the other four!

*Ducks and runs away extremely fast*

 

[Zarto]

Maybe Bob Dylan is the fifth cylon...

"Said the joker to the thief..."

 

[colonyearth]

Yeah it's either Zerrick or Romo Lampkin. Tough Roslin is seeing dreams with Cylons and reacted oddly at the time they entered Nebula and 4/5 of the final five discovered themselves. Propably just a mindfuck IMHO.

Romo Lampkin is so strange and mysterious person that i hold him up for beign possibly the final Cylon. I know he has been only in couple episodes, but i have feeling we will see more of him.

Much thanks VL for finding that! Guess I should've done that...my bad! You can all do interesting but horrible things to me later (ok so that belongs in another thread lol).

RM did say Romo will be back this season, so yes, it could be him, but he's almost too small of a character. What keeps me wondering was Diana's reaction to seeing the fifth, "I'm so sorry. I didn't know." That means it's someone we will all react the same way to. Under that perspective, even Zerrick isn't the best choice.

I do believe most of what RM says, but you're right, he doesn't want to give us anything and wants to keep us off gaurd. That said, he was very clear that the 5th is not in the last supper pic. Roselyn's "dreams" and connection to Caprica and Athena could be from at least 2 different sources 1) her medication and/or 2) the fact that she has had cylon hybrid DNA running through her before (which could still be there, even if it's not keeping her cancer at bay any longer).

And, Alluveal, I wasn't meaning a literal comparison of G'Kar and Baltar. They are clearly different characters. But I do see a transformation coming for Baltar, much like G'Kar's. It was a loose comparison as the supposed bad guy who, through events that occur, finds some form of religious or spiritual insight and growth. Baltar does, in fact, have a very human nature in all its forms. And yes, he does care a great deal. It's just that every time he does, some temptation comes along to pull him away from completely doing the right thing for the right reasons. I think this time, he will beat the temptation. He was serious about being willing to die for the boy. Don't underestimate Baltar or where they're going with him. And don't underestimate RM.

CE

 

[Alluveal]

RM did say Romo will be back this season, so yes, it could be him, but he's almost too small of a character. What keeps me wondering was Diana's reaction to seeing the fifth, "I'm so sorry. I didn't know." That means it's someone we will all react the same way to. Under that perspective, even Zerrick isn't the best choice.

I took Deana's comment "I'm sorry, I didn't know" to mean her apologizing to Anders for nearly blowing his head off on Caprica. =) He was the leader of the resistance and she almost ended him if not for Six/Boomer. So, I just assumed since she saw him there as one of the Final Five, she was apologizing for that. But, who knows?

do believe most of what RM says, but you're right, he doesn't want to give us anything and wants to keep us off gaurd. That said, he was very clear that the 5th is not in the last supper pic. Roselyn's "dreams" and connection to Caprica and Athena could be from at least 2 different sources 1) her medication and/or 2) the fact that she has had cylon hybrid DNA running through her before (which could still be there, even if it's not keeping her cancer at bay any longer).

I think it's the drugs, the camalla (sp?) It gave her visions before when she had a dream of Leoben and the snakes on her speech-box, etc. Thing is, most of her visions came true, so the Camalla isn't exactly working as a hallucinogen, but rather as a trigger and connection to the divine. That's how I see it.

I think her seeing Caprica and Athena in dreams came after she began taking it again. Maybe it's effecting her in the same way the Spice effected Muad'dib, on a minor level, or course.

But, then there's Athena/Six who are in the dreams. Laura is a strange one. In Flesh and bone, she brought Leoben in her dreams in a sense. I think he was aware of what she had seen. Now Six and Athena? She has a connection to the cylons of some kind, doesn't she.

Baltar does, in fact, have a very human nature in all its forms. And yes, he does care a great deal. It's just that every time he does, some temptation comes along to pull him away from completely doing the right thing for the right reasons. I think this time, he will beat the temptation. He was serious about being willing to die for the boy. Don't underestimate Baltar or where they're going with him. And don't underestimate RM.

I think you're absolutely spot on, but I need more from Baltar. He's shot himself in the foot so many times, and screwed so much up. Given any kind of power and he abuses it to the maximum. I'll need to see more to be convinced he's going to become "reborn." In a way, I kind of don't want him to go down that road. I enjoy him so much just as he is. But, we shall see.

 

[Zarto]

RM did say Romo will be back this season, so yes, it could be him, but he's almost too small of a character. What keeps me wondering was Diana's reaction to seeing the fifth, "I'm so sorry. I didn't know." That means it's someone we will all react the same way to. Under that perspective, even Zerrick isn't the best choice.

I always suspected D'Anna saw either Anders or Tigh. Refering either to her personal experience with Anders or refering the torture and removing eye of Tigh. Good reason for apologies either way. Almost forgot about Doc. Doc could be Cylon. He has had some dealing with D'Anna too briefly in Caprica, where he operated and "saved" both humans and cylons alike.

Well i guess we will see the fifth of the final five sooner or later revealed. Nice to speculate tough .

 

[colonyearth]

To me it's clear that Deanna's revelation at seeing what I believe was the fifth cylon was not just an apology. She was speaking with a reverance and awe. Just from a storytelling standpoint, you don't make a big deal out of a moment like that to fritter it away on a smaller revelation. Given that her model was shut down for being flawed, it made her statement have to hold until she's revived. Statements like that are clearly played out when the right moment arrives. Revealing Tigh and Anders like they did and with Deanna's model down, it didn't allow for the moment to play out, and that's when it should've really. So from a storytelling point of view, that moment hasn't played out yet. And it won't until she's awakened most likely. By then, the fact that Anders and Tigh are cylons will be old news and therefore lessen the moment when she said it. Ergo, she wasn't talking to them.

I hope that makes sense.

CE

 

[Alluveal]

It does make sense, but I don't consider her almost shooting Anders (or helping remove Tigh's eye) to be just a minor thing. Imagine you're her and you pull back the hood of one of the Final Five, and realize it's someone you almost shot in the face. What do you say?

"Eh... hey there?"

or

"damn, sorry! Frack me..." (or something similar)

I don't see it as being anything more than a moment of recognition of the cylon and her misdeeds.

BUT, I have to say I think that playing with the idea that there's more to it might be an interesting premise. I don't, however, think it would make any sense given the choices we have had so far in the "guess the last cylon game." I can't think of a soul she'd have to apologize to, unless it's someone we don't know she's had contact with.

We'll see, though! If you are right, I'll buy you an uber-beer, how about that?

 

[GKarsEye]

Ok here's another cool one: the final Cylon is number 6! The one in Galactica jail. Through her evolution as a person, she became the Ultimate Cylon that will save everybody! And that's why Xena Warrior Cylon felt bad when she found out it was her, because she always treated her like crap.

Did I just blow everyone's mind or what?!

 

[Alluveal]

As weird as it sounds, I was wondering if the final cylon wasn't some kind of offshoot of the original 7 we've come to know and love. Some kind of anomaly?

 

[Ranger1]

Ok here's another cool one: the final Cylon is number 6! The one in Galactica jail. Through her evolution as a person, she became the Ultimate Cylon that will save everybody! And that's why Xena Warrior Cylon felt bad when she found out it was her, because she always treated her like crap.

Did I just blow everyone's mind or what?!

yes.

 

[vacantlook]

As weird as it sounds, I was wondering if the final cylon wasn't some kind of offshoot of the original 7 we've come to know and love. Some kind of anomaly?

Well, the Last Supper picture does have a new copy of Six (called Natalie, from what I've read) pointing at Hallucination!Six, but then, Moore said the final cylon isn't in the picture. An aside, I imagine that pointing is going to be more of something to do with the whole singular cylon god bit than anything else.

Speaking of D'Anna -- I haven't heard -- is she going to be back this season? If she's not back, then her reaction at seeing the final group of cylons would seem to be more or less moot.

 

[colonyearth]

We'll see, though! If you are right, I'll buy you an uber-beer, how about that?

uber-beer! YAY!

Did I just blow everyone's mind or what?!

Dude! My head exploded and everything! There were...like...brains everywhere! It was so cool!

Well, the Last Supper picture does have a new copy of Six (called Natalie, from what I've read) pointing at Hallucination!Six, but then, Moore said the final cylon isn't in the picture. An aside, I imagine that pointing is going to be more of something to do with the whole singular cylon god bit than anything else.

Speaking of D'Anna -- I haven't heard -- is she going to be back this season? If she's not back, then her reaction at seeing the final group of cylons would seem to be more or less moot.

RM did also state that the finger of accusation is very important, though he wouldn't ellaborate on what it meant, just that it is important. I wish I could find that article in a link. I'll look for it. It was very interesting. And yes, Deanna (how do they officially spell some of these names anyway?) will be back this season. RM stated that they will revive her model in order to find out what she saw. I would assume it will be because she knows more about the final 5 than any of them do.

And Alluveal, I agree that we'll have to see. I just feel strongly that her comments were more in awe and respect than in apology. To have that moment and then it's several eps before the 4 are revealed and she's been "put down" just doesn't add up structurally. But you're right, once she's back, I think we'll find out. If it's never mentioned again (which I highly doubt), then I would assume you're right. But I believe that line and the moment in which it was spoken will be mentioned again.

CE

 

[vacantlook]

...And yes, Deanna (how do they officially spell some of these names anyway?)...

The Battlestar Galactica wiki says it's D'Anna Biers.

 

[colonyearth]

Ok, I've had to actually type each "hint" out so here goes:

This is what RM had to say about each person in the "last supper" pic:

President Laura Roslin: Of the cancer afflicted Roslin, Moore will say just this: "She's burning something of importance that has to do with a plot turn midseason."

Natalie (the new six): A new version of the Cylon Number Six will emerge this season. Explains Moore: "She assumes a leadership position for a group of Cylons [that have] a seperate agenda from the rest of them."

Saul Tigh: For the XO who just realized he's a Cylon, says Moore, "you might literally take the composition (of the picture) in terms of Tigh turning a blind eye."

The Missing Figure (the space between Tigh and Lee): Someone is indeed absent from the table, admits Moore: "We have not yet revealed the final Cylon." Does that mean the people already at the table aren't the final Cylon" Moore laughs, "You ferreted that out pretty slyly. I didn't really want to give that away." (But he did)

Lee Adama: The brooding (Judas-like?) former pilot is still in his civilian suit. "He does not return to flight status," says Moore.

Gaius Baltar and Number Six (both): Even though Baltar seemed to be on a savior track, "that's not really what the story is about," explains Moore. "Baltar's Six has proclaimed that she is delivering the gospel of the [Cylons'] one true god, so it seemed natural to place her at the center of the photo."

Kara Thrace and Sam Anders (both): The presumed-dead Starbuck returned at the same time her husband, Anders, discovered he's a Cylon. So that complicates their relationship, no? "It does," says Moore, "but [note] that the only one embracing Starbuck is Anders."

Galen "The Chief" Tyrol: "The Chief does not have a pleasant time of it this season," says Moore of how Tyrol deals with his discovery that he too is a frakkin' toaster. His child with fellow grunt Cally would seem to be the second human-Cylon hybrid, and, hints Moore, "one should consider the knife in his hand in that context." (That's kinda scary)

Sharon "Athena" Valerii and Karl Agathon (both): This unholy Cylon-human couple is looking warily at someone across the table, but Moore won't say whom: "The person they're looking at is definitely reacting." (dum-dum-DUM!)

William Adama: Though the admiral and the president are as far apart as possible, says Moore, "they're also turned toward each other."

Well, there's the rundown from Moore on the "last supper" picture. Let the discussion continue!

CE

 

[vacantlook]

Sharon "Athena" Valerii and Karl Agathon (both): This unholy Cylon-human couple is looking warily at someone across the table, but Moore won't say whom: "The person they're looking at is definitely reacting." (dum-dum-DUM!)

Here's a larger version of that Last Supper picture I found elsewhere on the net that I think makes it easier to contemplate who Athena and Helo are staring at. They seem to me to have a more upward turn of the eyes; I think they might be looking at Natalie. Maybe it's at them that Natalie is pointing. Perhaps Natalie has a problem with a human and a cylon having a child or a relationship or something; maybe she thinks Athena isn't a pure enough of a cylon or something.

I'm linking to my upload on imageshack cause it's a large image (1024 x 392)

 

[Alluveal]

I think Helo and Athena are staring at Roslyn--still miffed that their baby was nabbed and that they were left to think the child had died.

Chief holding the knife is very strange. Isn't his son's name Aaron? Wasn't Aaron the brother of Moses? I wonder if that has any significance in this.

Anders and Starbuck seem to be in their own little world.

I think "Natalie" is questioning 6's position--thus questioning her connection with the one true God and her word to Baltar.

Lee is also in his own little world, perhaps contemplating everything going on--wearing a suit as well. Could be his step toward law.

Roslyn and Adama are at the ends of the table, but both their characters seem to "frame" the entire story arc, so it makes sense.

Very cool. Thanks for showing us a larger picture.

 

[colonyearth]

I think Helo and Athena are staring at Roslyn--still miffed that their baby was nabbed and that they were left to think the child had died.

I don't think that's really an issue any longer. They were initially angry with Roslin over it and while there may still be some mistrust there, they've worked closely with her since then and she was glad they were able to save Hera. Remember, she's also connected to Hera, Caprica and Athena in the dreams. I think part of the imagery there (in the dreams) seems to be to be that Athena and Roslin are both working together to get Hera away from Caprica. They seem to be working toward the same end. I think that Natalie is pointing to Athena and Helo and they're reacting to her. If you look at their apparent line of sight, they seem to be looking more at Natalie.

By the way, when Pegasix (great name for her BTW) blew herself up, was it made clear that there was no resurrection ship anywhere near? We haven't really established just exactly how near they have to be. Could she have resurrected? Could she be Natalie?

Just a curious question. Any thoughts?

CE