Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

[vacantlook]

Ben Browder and Claudia Black were on the last season or two of SG-1. That's about all I know about their presence on there. But yeah, it was probably partially to try to bring in the Farscape audience to a different show.

 

[Sindatur]

There's a show on after BSG, I think it's one of the Stargates (I never watched any). It has both of them. My DVR sometimes gets a min or two of it, and a few weeks ago I saw this thing and I'm like wtf, is there some new Farscape- WHY DIDN'T MY B5TV NERDS TELL ME?! So did they just lump the Farscape people into some other show thinking, what, no one would notice, or it would be enough to bring the Farscape fans into a completely different show?

Stargate SG-1 S8 ended the original Story arc Ga'ould domination of the Galaxy, and Col/Gen O'Neill finished his time as a regular. S9 and 10 became a new Story Arc revolving around a new "God Race" called the Ori, and had a Merlin/King Arthur theme involving the Ancients. With the new Story Arc, they brought in Ben Browder to lead the team and take over for O'Neill. Claudia Black was just a random Alien woman who joined the team officially eventually. They actually were pretty careful about trying to avoid Farscape comparisons and had Claudia Black's character be closer to Daniel Jacksoin, then to Ben Browder's character. Also, in S10, they brought in Morena Boccarin from Firefly to be Claudia Black's daughter (long story)

 

[Recoil]

So did they just lump the Farscape people into some other show thinking, what, no one would notice, or it would be enough to bring the Farscape fans into a completely different show?

Thats basically it, yes. As I understood it, when some of the original SG1 actors started moving on, they needed to bring in new people to the team, so they went after Ben Browder hoping Farscape fans would watch SG1 to see him in it...and they got Claudia Black as well. From what I can tell they did it ENTIRELY to hope to bring in some new viewers with familiar faces. Their characters in SG1 were different, and there was no romantic involvement between their characters or chemistry. In fact Claudia Black's character was very different than her Farscape one.

So yea, I think they just played one of the oldest tricks in the book.

 

[PillowRock]

I'm an American living in Austria, with a discintly English-sounding name, with no German equivalent. People NEVER forget my name.

That's ONE name, not a whole cast's worth.

One or two "unique" names amongst all of the "common" ones is memorable.

Having a couple dozen names which are all unfamiliar to the point of sounding like gibberish becomes difficult and confusing quickly. This is for the same reason that is easy to learn an unfamiliar word, but it is far easier to memorize a paragraph in a language that you are fluant in than one from a completely different language family.

The hardest time I ever had in keeping everyone straight while reading a history was a book called "The Washing of the Spears", which was a history of the Zulu empire focusing on the Zulu War that they fought with the British in 1879. A couple of the Zulu names stuck out and were easy to keep track of (Shaka and Cetswayo are the couple that I can still give you, years later). However, overall I had a hell of a time keeping all of the Zulus straight. The Europeans, with names that fit into the already well formed naming categories in my head, were *much* easier to mentally keep track of.

A lot of the confusion that does come up with "common" names has to do with the tendancy of them to overlap. You meet a number of Johns or Marys in any given week and all of the contexts start to get mixed up in your head. You notice that BSG does not bring this into play. There are no other Karas or Lees or Sharons (aside from the other 8's; "Sharon" always translates into the same face) or Sauls; just the one of each name.


Star Wars was easier because they had a smaller cast of characters whose names mattered and the smaller cast size allowed them to stick to single syllables for a lot of them. They *still* used a scattering of existing names, and others that were direct plays on English words (the bounty hunter who would sell out anybody for the right is named Greed-o, for example; the last name of the loner smuggler is "Solo"; it has been pointed out that it not exactly a *huge* stretch from "Darth Vader" to "Dark Father").


As for Aeryn Sun: That's a really poor example for your side of this debate. In the first place, when you hear her first name in the show, it *is* an already familiar real world name. It just turns out that for the alien character they made up an alternate spelling. Her last name is a simple everyday word in English, not even an alternate spelling. Both said together become a sound-alike for an English phrase that is not entirely without meaning: "Air and Sun" (since "swallowing" the D in "and" is very common among native Aglophones, depending on what sound starts the following word).

 

[Chilli]

I'm rather pleased that they aren't falling back on the ole sci-fi cliche of making up goofy, silly, unique-just-to-be-unique names in BSG. It's not about the names to me. It's about the story and character.

Maybe we can find another topic to stumble into after tonight's ep.


eeesh.

The ole clichee of .. diferent cultures having different names? :wtf:

I think it could also be a cultural factor - for me as someone living in a place where I'll be in three different countries with distinct languages and distinct names within an hour's drive, it feels pretty goofy to tune in on a show that's supposed to play in a faraway time in a faraway place, and to presented with a culture more heterogenous than the 50 mile radius around me.

It's true that it absolutely doesn't matter. But I do respect it when a writer creating a universe puts some actual thought into the universe being created - it adds a lot to the sense of realism a show, book, or series has. Obviously every righter won't have the time and knowledge to do what Tolkien did when creating Middle Earth, but even Firefly is highly sophisticated in comparison to new BSG, here.

 

[Chilli]

That's ONE name, not a whole cast's worth.

I very much doubt my name is the first strange, foreign name such people have learned.

Star Wars was easier because they had a smaller cast of characters whose names mattered and the smaller cast size allowed them to stiuck to single syllables for a lot of them. They *still* used a scattering of existing names, and others that were direct plays on English words (the bounty hunter who would sell out anybody for the right is named Greed-o, for example; the last name of the loner smuggler is "Solo"; it has been pointed out that it not exactly a *huge* stretch from "Darth Vader" to "Dark Father").

OK, take Lord of the Rings then - which has a HUGE set of characters, compared to both Star Wars and BSG, with very few of them based on languages the reader might be familiar with, lest he by chance knows Finnish or Welsh. I, for one, had no problem keeping the characters apart in LOTR.

As for Aeryn Sun: That's a really poor example for your side of this debate. In the first place, when you hear her fist name in the show, it *is* an already familiar real world name. It just turns out that for the alien character they made up an alternate spelling. Her last name is a simple everyday word in English, not even an alternate spelling. Both said together become a sound-alike for an English phrase that is not entirely without meaning: "Air and Sun" (since "swallowing" the D in "and" is very common among native Aglophones, depending on what sound starts the following word).

That's what I get for taking an example from a show I had never seen .. I was not aware of the exact pronounciation of her name, or the "Air and Sun" bit.

 

[Chilli]

The hardest time I ever had in keeping everyone straight while reading a history was a book called "The Washing of the Spears", which was a history of the Zulu empire focusing on the Zulu War that they fought with the British in 1879. A couple of the Zulu names stuck out and were easy to keep track of (Shaka and Cetswayo are the couple that I can still give you, years later). However, overall I had a hell of a time keeping all of the Zulus straight. The Europeans, with names that fit into the already well formed naming categories in my head, were *much* easier to mentally keep track of.

Not being familiar with Zulu in the slightest, I have a hard time making arguments here. I'll just say that for me, names in some cultures are a lot easier to capture than in others. I had an incredibly easy time learning words, and names, in Estonian, for example, also if this is a language not related to anything I speak - names and words are generally easy and simple, yet vary from one another. Also if I Russian is related to English, and also if I knew all the Russian names, I can't keep ANYONE apart, though, in Russia, where names are long, ugly, and very similar to one another nevertheless (Vassiliy Vadimovich, Vadim Vasilievich, Vladimir Fyodorovich, ...)

(Your point about overlapping names is taken, though, which is more the problem with Russian names than anything else)

Same thing happens for me in Sci-Fi and Fantasy too, for example - keeping all the G'Whatevers apart on B5 was a lot harder than keeping the Hobbits apart on LOTR.

 

[Markas]

The ole clichee of .. diferent cultures having different names? :wtf:

I think it could also be a cultural factor - for me as someone living in a place where I'll be in three different countries with distinct languages and distinct names within an hour's drive, it feels pretty goofy to tune in on a show that's supposed to play in a faraway time in a faraway place, and to presented with a culture more heterogenous than the 50 mile radius around me.

It's true that it absolutely doesn't matter. But I do respect it when a writer creating a universe puts some actual thought into the universe being created - it adds a lot to the sense of realism a show, book, or series has. Obviously every righter won't have the time and knowledge to do what Tolkien did when creating Middle Earth, but even Firefly is highly sophisticated in comparison to new BSG, here.[/quote]

You make a good point, for someone who is concerned with the multi-cultural aspect of inclusiveness in scifi. However, this series is essentially an Anglo-English production picked up by the SciFi channel for mainly an original broadcast in the US. We're a fickle people. We wouldn't tolerate Barliman Butterbur as a BSG character name.

They also try to make some connections to the 13th tribe by pure force of naming. Adama, Athena etc. Of course, they also want the male audience between 14-29, who will actually be watching the SciFi Channel. Marketing to those boys is a primary concern as well.

And no one would compare BSG to Tolkien, unless they were Eurotrash like you.

 

[Chilli]

And no one would compare BSG to Tolkien, unless they were Eurotrash like you.

Aww. You called me Eurotrash!

*smooches*



The one thing in this whole discussion I've forgotten, regarding how we all remember names, and how it might or might not be easier to remember characters by familiar names .. at least I, on BSG, *don't* remember bloody anyone by their forenames. I remember everyone that has a callsign by the callsign. I don't know about anybody else, but I can't, off the top of my head, tell you what Hotdog's name is.

 

[PillowRock]

I very much doubt my name is the first strange, foreign name such people have learned.

But, most of the time, you probably are the only one among the people that they meet at that party, or in that office, or whatever. Within the context where you are "filed" in their brain, you are unique, and that tends to be remembered.

However, if *all* of the names are "different", then none of them are unique any more, and they become harder to keep track of.

Same thing happens for me in Sci-Fi and Fantasy too, for example - keeping all the G'Whatevers apart on B5 was a lot harder than keeping the Hobbits apart on LOTR.

But that's what would happen if BSG did the "realistic" thing and started building their names out of clusters of phonemes typical of each of the 12 Colonies. All of the Caprican names would blend together like all of the Narn names do, and all of the Geminon names would blend like all of the Minbari names do.

In fact, going back to LotR, all of those relatively similar Elvin names do the same thing, as do the similar Rohirim names, etc. (Obviously, the primary couple characters from each group, whose names get repeated hundreds of times, get remembered. But the rest of them .....)

The reason that I think the Hobbits are the easiest group to keep mentally organized in the Trilogy is precisely because they are the race / nation with the most English naming group: Sam, Merry, Pippin ...... Baggins, Brandywine ...... etc.

 

[Chilli]

But, most of the time, you probably are the only one among the people that they meet at that party, or in that office, or whatever.

Often, yes. But not always. I've had the same experience in university courses, where you'll have dozens of people - and rarely will I be the only non-Austrian in the group.

The reason that I think the Hobbits are the easiest group to keep mentally organized in the Trilogy is precisely because they are the race / nation with the most English naming group: Sam, Merry, Pippin ...... Baggins, Brandywine ...... etc.

Names that are quite comfortable to our English-speaking ears, but that aren't actually our names - aside from Sam, which does not count, as it's short for Samwise.

The surnames, in addition, generally have some meaning to them (like the Star Wars names), which makes them even easier to remember - which is also why it's the callsigns I remember the characters on BSG by, and not the "real" names.

How much the names would fall together, mentally, for us would depend entirely on the name structures chosen for a culture, and you're right that in many cases, it'd be hard to keep them apart, when you go off the Hobbit route. I just don't think that there was the pragmatic need you spoke of on BSG though - maybe I'm the only one, but aside from the main characters, I don't know anyone's actual name. It's the callsigns I remember.

Honest question, to anyone wandering by here. No google allowed. If I mention the character "Hotdog", can anyone remember what the guy's actual name is on the show?

Does anyone, when remembering Crashdown, think of him as .. *checks BSG wiki* .. Alex Quartararo? Does anyone think of Racetrack as Margaret Edmondson?

 

[Galahad]

We wouldn't tolerate Barliman Butterbur as a BSG character name.

What are you talking about? A colonial pub starship with the moniker "The Prancing Pony" would be seriously awesome!

 

[Galahad]

But that's what would happen if BSG did the "realistic" thing and started building their names out of clusters of phonemes typical of each of the 12 Colonies. All of the Caprican names would blend together like all of the Narn names do, and all of the Geminon names would blend like all of the Minbari names do.

Would that be realistic though?

You have to remember that the colonies all come from the same civilization. I don't think you can compartmentalise them so easily. It's not as if people from separate racial/cultural groups went to separate colonies. If anything the colonies are most divided by class and social standing.

It's difficult to make sweeping statements about the culture of the colonies without knowing exactly what happened in the generations that followed the fallout on Kobol. Did they remain at odds for 100's of years before making peace and falling under a single representative Government?

 

[vacantlook]

So... tonight's ep.

Looks like the suspicion that Daniel was Starbuck's father is true; we still didn't get anywhere near an explanation as to what the heck is up with Starbuck though. I started to realize she was hallucinating the piano player the moment she applauded for him; I don't know why that moment made me step over the line and think he wasn't real, but it did. And it is pretty interesting that Boomer helping Ellen escape was a ruse orchestrated by Cavil so he could get his hands on Hera. Boomer is crazy villainous.

Three to go. I'm still wondering if this show is going to pull it together as cleanly and definitively as I want it to, or if there'll end up being a whole bunch of unexplained nebulous things left over in the end.

 

[GKarsEye]

Looks like the suspicion that Daniel was Starbuck's father is true

Erm... but then how/why was he living with humans and had a daughter, etc? Eh.

Y'all think Boomer was really serious when she told Chief she meant that lovey-dovey business?

 

[Alluveal]

IF Daniel is Starbuck's father, then he was placed among the 12 colonies just like the rest were. Tigh was placed first, after the first war ended. Then they had a good 40 years before the cylons came back. That gives us quite a bit of time for a guy to be placed, father a child then vanish.

There's still the possibility that Starbuck IS Daniel (female form,) and the projection she's experiencing is her human father who played songs for her and he's just helping her remember who she really is in a sense. Kind of like an archetypal dream guide, etc.

Good episode.

I knew Boomer was up to no good when she started boinking Helo. And no, I don't think she meant her little lovey-dovey mushiness. I think she used him hardcore. I'm hoping that nobody finds out how he helped her, though. I guess I don't want a whole episode dedicated to HIS guilt/innocence, etc.

Anders is creepy, though when Starbuck was playing the music at the end, his eyes were closed. No idea what's going to happen with him. Interesting that Starbuck is so attached to him now, when the two really seemed to have drifted apart before. I've always wanted for them to really end up together (never cared for her and Lee.) I just dig their matching tattoos to much to think they won't work out in the end.

Now that Cavil has Hera, he's really got the advantage. Not only does he know where Galactica is, but he has Hera and the "future" of the cylon race (i.e. procreation.) Chances are, he'll hold her hostage in exchange for the rebuilding of resurrection technology.

 

[vacantlook]

Anders is so pretty. :devil:

 

[Alluveal]

He really is, even all bandaged up and coma-eyed. But, I like him a bit more animated.

 

[Alluveal]

Wooo! Kinda off topic. But I just read that Katee Sackoff is going to be at Starcon in Denver in April (near where I live.) So is Pat Tallman. Sweetness.

 

[GKarsEye]

Did they ever actually explain how Hera would be used to create the next generation of cylons? I mean do they assume when she grows she can bear cylon babies or something? Do they wanna cut her up?

By the way, stuffing a little kind in a cargo box... that's pretty messed up right there. Did that thing even have breathing holes?

Also, props to the Boomer actress. Well done, now that she had a bit more to work with than just "despair" and "confusion."

Unfortunately I don't really the moment when she became all evil. I know she was killed (they replayed that flashback in this ep), was resurrected, and then... didn't she already kidnap Hera the one time? Something... now Cavil made her evil or something. Yeah that's the jist of it, I know what happened but I don't actually remember watching it for some reason, like I remember all the twists and turns the Chief went through much better. Probably because there's only one of him.