Gunnery Pod (spoilers)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Actually, I seem to remember something similar to the pod, at least in some respects. Remember the "Last Starfighter?" The pilot or WCO station moved 360 degree in almost all directions. What sets it apart is lack of physical instrumentality. I like it, but she shouldn't appear to be moving, rather the room's perspective according to her eye movements. Her spinning would to me cause centrifical forces pushing and pulling blood in and out of her brain. Sarah would have passed out in a medium to prolonged fight. (Gravity or anti-gravity would have no affect on that). In a stable position, it would be more comfortable (especially doing forward punches instead of swimming punches and kicks. Also, lack of physical instruments is not new, "Earth: Final Conflict's" Taelon shuttles use hand gestures.

I would have wanted to see a move cybernetic approach than a VR approach, having here (temporarily) become one with the vessal. I know, sounds like Shadow tech, but the person can disengage at will. In fact, it would be practical to do so. The strain on the brain would be enormous. Unlimited pereferal (sp) vision (see in all directions at once), but also weapons information, ship status, piloting (wouldn't it piss you off if the pilot moves you out of a shot?), and communications. Your thoughts would fire the weaponry. But the person would need to be removed as soon as possible, long term exposure makes switching back to reality harder. Over exposure could shut down body functions. (Shadows, of course overcame this) I would rather have that than the pod



------------------

 

[Kribu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Irmo:
Yes. Which is an example of Minbari living far longer than humans. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In that DoFS discussion panel broadcast Delenn would have been about... what? 160? 170? Maybe even as little as 150 in human years. And I got the feeling that she was actually considered very old for a Minbari. She certainly didn't look like she had many years left.

The oldest humans now die at around 120-125 years. In 200 years, the average life span of humans might well be around 100 years, and 140 years wouldn't even be out of the question for some humans.

Thus having one 160-year-old Minbari around doesn't necessarily mean that they as a race live "far longer" than humans. A bit, sure, but I don't think it's a significant difference.

------------------
"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com

[This message has been edited by Kribu (edited January 23, 2002).]

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kribu:
In that DoFS discussion panel broadcast Delenn would have been about... what? 160? 170? Maybe even as little as 150 in human years. And I got the feeling that she was actually considered very old for a Minbari. She certainly didn't look like she had many years left. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One thing to keep in mind is that Delenn became partially human. I think I remember furthermore that there were comments early in the series that Delenn is quite a bit older in human years than her looks suggest, and that her looks correspond to the phase of life for Minbari. JMS once said that Minbari could "easily" live to 140 or so, but in another post, he cited 200-220, though "the latter part of that is in a somewhat somnolent state"

In any way, my point is that a longer lifespan reduces the loss of knowledge over time.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The oldest humans now die at around 120-125 years. In 200 years, the average life span of humans might well be around 100 years, and 140 years wouldn't even be out of the question for some humans. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How far it might be possible to push out human lifespan is an ongoing debate. Another one is whether the side effects would make it worthwile. Recently published results support the hypothesis that one of the reasons we die when we die is to prevent our genes from accumulating so much damage over time that cancer would be practically inevitable (somewhat simplified). Gene replication during cell division isn't 100% errorproof and while some errors are corrected, some slip through the gaps. There's multiple safeguards to prevent cells carrying too much damage to multiply, but as the incidence of cancer shows, they aren't foolproof. To prolong the lifespan, it currently would seem necessary to switch off some of these safeguards, which definitely wouldn't be a good idea.....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Thus having one 160-year-old Minbari around doesn't necessarily mean that they as a race live "far longer" than humans. A bit, sure, but I don't think it's a significant difference.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, see my references to JMS, the latter one I found on http://www.america.net/~judge/jms06-95.txt (just "find" 'lifespan'

But it isn't really important to the point that a longer lifespan, even if only by 50 years, significantly reduces the loss of information over time.


------------------
If I tell you my name is Lorien, what good is that?

(Whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi?)

 

[etj4eagle]

On the idea of making it a neural interface, that seems reasonable and would eliminate the fatigue and reduce reaction time. However, at the same time how would the mind's eye see things. I have a feeling, that a reasonable construction would be the exact same representation that we currently have, with punching and kicking firing the weapons. To maximize efficiency you would want to stay with the known and keep things as natural as possible.

In such case the only difference would be putting on some kind of helmet/suit instead of jumping into a gunnery pod. Though one problem I see is disengagement. You will want to capture the neural commands to the muscles, to keep the WCO from thrashing around. Yet at the same time you still need to be able to disengage, and would want to be able to manually be able to rip it off if damage to the ship causes the system to hang.


On a seperate note on the time issue. Ships bigger than a Whitestar class, I would assume would have an inherent delay in brining up weapons. As these ships don't have weapons controlled from the bridge (at least on earth force, see Minbari war start), but from the batteries themselves. While in some cases it would be reasonable to travel with batteries manned (just as at times B5 kept furries ready and loaded with pilots in the cobra bays), you can't do that all the time, plus it would be a waste of manpower. Instead the crew would be else where doing other tasks, or in a ready room, and only deploy to the weapon rooms when the battle station klaxons sound.

In complaining about the seconds it would take the WCO to get into the gunnery pod we are making the assumption that she would otherwise be at the fire control station station when that surprise attack occured. However, is this a reasonable assumption? With a small crew she might be doing some other task, or be away from her station.

------------------
-Eagle

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> On the idea of making it a neural interface, that seems reasonable and would eliminate the fatigue and reduce reaction time. However, at the same time how would the mind's eye see things. I have a feeling, that a reasonable construction would be the exact same representation that we currently have, with punching and kicking firing the weapons. To maximize efficiency you would want to stay with the known and keep things as natural as possible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How so? We are already now experiementing with directly feeding information into the hearing and seeing nerves. While so far, that is very crude, there is no reason to expect that we won't be further advanced in 200 years, let alone that the Minbari aren't further advanced. More, we're also experimenting with thought-controlled steering. Once again, so far it doesn't always work and is very crude, but there's no reason not to expect that these problems can be addressed.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> In such case the only difference would be putting on some kind of helmet/suit instead of jumping into a gunnery pod. Though one problem I see is disengagement. You will want to capture the neural commands to the muscles, to keep the WCO from thrashing around. Yet at the same time you still need to be able to disengage, and would want to be able to manually be able to rip it off if damage to the ship causes the system to hang. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There's no reason for the neural impulse to a muscle being necessary for a trigger. Ideally, a focus on a certain thought should be enough. With sophisticated enough technology, suits or helmets could possibly be avoided (think of MRI, for example)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> On a seperate note on the time issue. Ships bigger than a Whitestar class, I would assume would have an inherent delay in brining up weapons. As these ships don't have weapons controlled from the bridge (at least on earth force, see Minbari war start), but from the batteries themselves. While in some cases it would be reasonable to travel with batteries manned (just as at times B5 kept furries ready and loaded with pilots in the cobra bays), you can't do that all the time, plus it would be a waste of manpower. Instead the crew would be else where doing other tasks, or in a ready room, and only deploy to the weapon rooms when the battle station klaxons sound. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A good way to get blown out of space. What makes you think that the bridge does not have overrides at least for the main guns? Yes, in a capital ship, the crew would not always be on battlestations, but that doesn't mean the ship would be defenseless and trained personnel wouldn't be where they can efficiently fire weapons at any time. And yes, you can keep gunners ready all the time with changing shifts. Only that most TV shows don't show us that, because it would mean more regular cast, thus more money. B5 sort of did it at the beginning, sometimes, as ST did it sometimes at the beginning of TNG, by having different members of the main cast on different shifts, but it is frequently just not addressed because it would make things much more complicated.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>In complaining about the seconds it would take the WCO to get into the gunnery pod we are making the assumption that she would otherwise be at the fire control station station when that surprise attack occured. However, is this a reasonable assumption? With a small crew she might be doing some other task, or be away from her station. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

She is specialized in doing THIS task. It is a critical task for the ship, as it is one that ensures survival. While she's on duty, she should of course be ready to perform her duty. You definitely wouldn't want her to haul supplies in the mess hall so that she strains her back and has serious difficulties to use the gunnery pod next time.

------------------
If I tell you my name is Lorien, what good is that?

(Whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi?)

 

[Mack]

Hi all,

This is my first post here. Just found the site awhile ago and have been lurking around a bit. I'm not generally big on discussion boards, but I'm just to big a fan to pass on the intelligent discussions I've seen here.

Probably everyone is sick of the weapons pod discussion

, but I had a few points I wanted to raise.

1. We've never seen a small ship with multiple weapon clusters having broad fields of fire. One person controlling multiple weapons targetable in a complete globe is a different challenge.

2. It's been mentioned in passing before, but how do we know it isn't total VR and we've been given this point of view for dramatic effect?

3. A lot of criticisms revolve around the person getting tired in a long fight. The Liandra is made for infiltration not combat and a long fight would probably make the matter moot, anyways.

4. Why martial arts instead of more subtle body language? Martial arts is common coin in the anla'shok. No traiing necessary since it works on a commonly know paradigm.

That being said, I was rather neutral on the system. It didn't knock me out of my seat, but that brings me to my most important point...

5. I want to see things that don't quite work for me. If I loved everything it would either mean that I'm completely in tune with JMS and all the creative people there

, or it would mean that they aren't pushing the envelope. In order to achieve great new things you must risk failure. The safe route leads you to the least common denomonator and there's enough TV catering to that.

Anyways, thanks for letting me into your community!

------------------
"Tastes like chicken." -- Mack