newstarinthesky
Member
Re: Here\'s a thought...
I think "the hand" that Kosh sent Sheridan was an image, not a singular definition which only applied to him. A hand has an equal and an opposite, which was the metaphor for the juxtaposition of Justin and Sheridan. I think this will play out to be a similar deal with The Hand, which no doubt has an equal and opposite. The images are related, but not who the images refer to.
With the Thirdspace aliens, the Vorlons "considered" them Gods, just as they started to believe that they themselves were. They were wrong (unless you still worship the Vorlons...). IT's their perception of God, not necessarily the right one.
There is no one singular perception of God on Earth, so I'd wager this would fit in with jms's vision of a multi-denomonational future.
Also, Lorien wasn't considered God, or worshipped. Probably revered is the most accurate term. They trusted him, they took stock in what he had to stay, and "honoured" him by returning to Z'ha'dum, but I don't get a worship vibe of the Shadows or Vorlons. If the Vorlons considered Lorien a God, then why did they later believe that they themselves were?
I think the Vorlons equated God with power, the Thirdspace aliens were powerful, and Thirdspace itself more potent than normal or hyperspace, so a reasonable (for them) conclusion. For the Thirdspace aliens they were the only race where they were, so technically they were all Gods, or all peasants -- basically there couldn't be a heirarchy of races. No-one came before or after them as far as they were concerned, so why not think of themselves as Gods?
Lorien had power, possibly trancending anything that we've seen. But the fact that we didn't see much of it (only really when he raised Sheridan, etc) implies that the Vorlons may not have been as aware of Loriens power. Loriens true power lay in wisdom. He had accumulated more knowledge (assumedly) than any other being, but power is in the eye of the beholder. The true power comes not with arms, but with understanding. Sheridan's fleet couldn't defeat the combined Shadow/Vorlon fleet at Corianus 6 using force - they understood their way out. They "outgrew" their "parents".
Lorien is definitely the oldest, of that there is no doubt. Why didn't he mention them? He mentioned races that had passed beyond the rim. All the older races had left except the Vorlons, Shadows and the few other stragglers. As "The Hand" had been banished from our domain, this statement still holds true. After Lorien left, this fact was subject to change.
Lorien came back to collect Sheridan, so we know that the First One came back, and it's possible that perhaps the odd Shadow might have ventured back between the end of the series and the end of the universe! With that logic, other first ones, or whatever name applies to the Hand to fit them into the order of things, may return. Lorien's statement was, after all, only true at the very second he made it. After that "truth is fluid, truth is transitory."
The Vorlons were "younger" than the Shadows, and both the Shadows and Vorlons were among the younger of the first ones, so it stands to reason that there would be something older than the Shadows, with a power which would make them "look like insects" by comparison. The cycle of things is from Chaos to Order, and then to sythesis. Out of the chaos of the shadows, came the need for order which the Vorlons instilled. Finally all the races in the Third Age found a balance, and our own direction between the two. Are the Hand so old that they embrace chaos, or so developed that they have the wisdom to rival Lorien (to good or ill effect)? Do they have a completely different agenda?
I can't wait for jms to get his chance to answer all these questions (well some at least) and to pose new ones...
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I think "the hand" that Kosh sent Sheridan was an image, not a singular definition which only applied to him. A hand has an equal and an opposite, which was the metaphor for the juxtaposition of Justin and Sheridan. I think this will play out to be a similar deal with The Hand, which no doubt has an equal and opposite. The images are related, but not who the images refer to.
With the Thirdspace aliens, the Vorlons "considered" them Gods, just as they started to believe that they themselves were. They were wrong (unless you still worship the Vorlons...). IT's their perception of God, not necessarily the right one.
There is no one singular perception of God on Earth, so I'd wager this would fit in with jms's vision of a multi-denomonational future.
Also, Lorien wasn't considered God, or worshipped. Probably revered is the most accurate term. They trusted him, they took stock in what he had to stay, and "honoured" him by returning to Z'ha'dum, but I don't get a worship vibe of the Shadows or Vorlons. If the Vorlons considered Lorien a God, then why did they later believe that they themselves were?
I think the Vorlons equated God with power, the Thirdspace aliens were powerful, and Thirdspace itself more potent than normal or hyperspace, so a reasonable (for them) conclusion. For the Thirdspace aliens they were the only race where they were, so technically they were all Gods, or all peasants -- basically there couldn't be a heirarchy of races. No-one came before or after them as far as they were concerned, so why not think of themselves as Gods?
Lorien had power, possibly trancending anything that we've seen. But the fact that we didn't see much of it (only really when he raised Sheridan, etc) implies that the Vorlons may not have been as aware of Loriens power. Loriens true power lay in wisdom. He had accumulated more knowledge (assumedly) than any other being, but power is in the eye of the beholder. The true power comes not with arms, but with understanding. Sheridan's fleet couldn't defeat the combined Shadow/Vorlon fleet at Corianus 6 using force - they understood their way out. They "outgrew" their "parents".
Lorien is definitely the oldest, of that there is no doubt. Why didn't he mention them? He mentioned races that had passed beyond the rim. All the older races had left except the Vorlons, Shadows and the few other stragglers. As "The Hand" had been banished from our domain, this statement still holds true. After Lorien left, this fact was subject to change.
Lorien came back to collect Sheridan, so we know that the First One came back, and it's possible that perhaps the odd Shadow might have ventured back between the end of the series and the end of the universe! With that logic, other first ones, or whatever name applies to the Hand to fit them into the order of things, may return. Lorien's statement was, after all, only true at the very second he made it. After that "truth is fluid, truth is transitory."
The Vorlons were "younger" than the Shadows, and both the Shadows and Vorlons were among the younger of the first ones, so it stands to reason that there would be something older than the Shadows, with a power which would make them "look like insects" by comparison. The cycle of things is from Chaos to Order, and then to sythesis. Out of the chaos of the shadows, came the need for order which the Vorlons instilled. Finally all the races in the Third Age found a balance, and our own direction between the two. Are the Hand so old that they embrace chaos, or so developed that they have the wisdom to rival Lorien (to good or ill effect)? Do they have a completely different agenda?
I can't wait for jms to get his chance to answer all these questions (well some at least) and to pose new ones...
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