How would you reboot B5?

[Republibot 3.0]

Ubik....that's....wow. That's pretty damn good! I'm impressed, I genuinely am. In however many years I've been tooling around on here - what, four, five? Anyone know? - that's the best proposal I've read.

In 2010 they did a live-action version of "Space Battleship Yamato" in Japan. The task was to tie up like 13 hour TV series in a 2 hour movie. There was no way to please everyone. What they decided was "This is a standalone. There will be no sequels. Not even if we want them." This simplified things massively. Then they grabbed a few cool characters they liked from the 2nd series, and stuck them on board here, where they actually helped. They held to the basic plot, and were OCD about it where it mattered, but were wildly divergent where they felt it didn't. The most gutsy aspect of this were the bad guy aliens, who, ahem, I wont' even tell you what they did. It was the kind of thing that should have made me scream, but in the altered context I was like, "Yes, this works. This makes sense."

Basically, they were faithful to the details where they mattered, faithful to the spirt when the details didn't matter, and went their own way whenever they could get away with it. And it ended up being pretty good.

Your pitch sounds kinda' like that.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

If it's going to be 'Babylon 5' then it has to have 'Babylon 5' in it. What is the point of calling a movie 'Babylon 5' if it's about something else entirely?

Theres enough story in that 5 year arc to rip a chunk out and make a feature.

Which raises the question we've all been avoiding: Do we wanna even call it Babylon 5?

Would the name recognition even help at this point, or would it be a hinderance as we're kinda' on the ash heap of pop culture history? Might be best to just call it something completely new, and assume no built in audience.

 

[ranger phil]

"J. Michael Straczysnki has announced plans for a Babylon 5 feature film, which is expected to enter production in 2016.

Speaking at San Diego Comic Con last week, Straczsynki announced that he would soon be sitting down to write a Babylon 5 feature film, which is envisioned as a reboot of the iconic sci-fi series. JMS said that he plans to get the script locked down by the end of 2015 and the film would then enter production the following year in 2016.

Next to nothing is known about the plot for this Babylon 5 feature film, beyond the fact that it is a reboot of the concept seen in the series. That said, J. Michael Straczynski has stated that he would like to use cast members from the series, such as Bruce Boxleitner and Mira Furlan, in new roles in the feature film. “I’d love to see Bruce as the President of the Earth Alliance”, he said."

http://www.tvwise.co.uk/2014/08/babylon-5-movie-eyes-2016-production-start/

As I said. So many stories you could rip out the 5 year arc and rejig for a movie.

 

[Ubik]

Ubik....that's....wow. That's pretty damn good! I'm impressed, I genuinely am. In however many years I've been tooling around on here - what, four, five? Anyone know? - that's the best proposal I've read.

In 2010 they did a live-action version of "Space Battleship Yamato" in Japan. The task was to tie up like 13 hour TV series in a 2 hour movie. There was no way to please everyone. What they decided was "This is a standalone. There will be no sequels. Not even if we want them." This simplified things massively. Then they grabbed a few cool characters they liked from the 2nd series, and stuck them on board here, where they actually helped. They held to the basic plot, and were OCD about it where it mattered, but were wildly divergent where they felt it didn't. The most gutsy aspect of this were the bad guy aliens, who, ahem, I wont' even tell you what they did. It was the kind of thing that should have made me scream, but in the altered context I was like, "Yes, this works. This makes sense."

Basically, they were faithful to the details where they mattered, faithful to the spirt when the details didn't matter, and went their own way whenever they could get away with it. And it ended up being pretty good.

Your pitch sounds kinda' like that.

Thank you. I guess this is what happens when I get bored at work. It just seemed to me that some of the major plot points would necessarily have to change, otherwise where’s the fun for us old school fans?!

I really must check out the live action Yamoto film, sounds like its worth my time. Japanese nationalism in space always did appeal!

 

[Ubik]

If it's going to be 'Babylon 5' then it has to have 'Babylon 5' in it. What is the point of calling a movie 'Babylon 5' if it's about something else entirely?
Theres enough story in that 5 year arc to rip a chunk out and make a feature.

Good point. I suppose it really depends where JMS mind is at as to the ‘reboot’. Logically, I would assume he want to use this as a fresh start, so he can set a new baseline and then expand on it from there. The film could lead into a new TV series, with WB blessing, or it could be a series of films, which seems more likely. It all depends on where JMS wants to take it. To be a success, I think it has to start with a clean slate, essentially ignoring current continuity. No new audience is going to watch 5 years worth of TV to appreciate a feature film. Same was true of Serenity in relation to Firefly. Although, I will say this… it annoyed me deeply that all the characters were set back to square one. Rich, well rounded characters from the show characters had become ‘angry sarcastic captain’ and ‘crazy girl’. However, I understand why it needed to be done, and it was still amazing the film was made at all. As SF fans, we so often have to settle for less than what we deserve!

Which raises the question we've all been avoiding: Do we wanna even call it Babylon 5?

Would the name recognition even help at this point, or would it be a hinderance as we're kinda' on the ash heap of pop culture history? Might be best to just call it something completely new, and assume no built in audience.

Good point. Most of the enduring pop culture references to B5 are sadly, overwhelmingly negative. ‘Babylon 5 was a big pile of shit’ from SPACED is one that gets quoted ad nauseam. In the context of the episode it’s very funny, and is totally on the mark in terms of geek culture / comic shop type banter. But, it doesn’t really help the cause. Then there’s The Big Bang Theory, which constantly rubbishes the show via Sheldon. It’s the old Trek vs B5 thing. For the record I absolutely loathe The Big Bang Theory, it’s about as funny as Friends was, i.e. NOT FUNNY AT ALL. It’s an awful co-opting of geek culture with no real respect for it. Anyway, that’s probably a thread unto itself. Then there’s the reference in Breaking Bad, which was fairly neutral, only meant to indicate the character loved SF TV. It was a nice in joke for those who knew Cranston had been in B5.

So, on that evidence, maybe the B5 ‘brand’ doesn’t really help that much. If the general response it garners for your average punter is ‘wasn’t that show really shit?, will it do a feature film any favours?

Conversely, you have to factor in all the fans of the original series. Those people like us, who have very fond memories of the TV show and want more. I know the size of the B5 fandom pales in comparison to say Trek, but we are a passionate bunch and I’ve converted plenty of friends by sitting them doing and binge watching the show.

I tend to think the film will have the same spirit of the B5 we love and know, but will differ in interesting ways. So, it should probably retain the tagline, Babylon 5.

This thing better get made, so we can find out! Although, I will have enjoyed the discussion it generated even if it doesn’t.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

@ Ubik

Space Battleship Yamato is pretty awesome. The live-action movie is a little too long and a little too talkie, and perhaps a littel too influenced by the RDM Galactica, but I came out of it dropjawed because of how low my expectations were (I read the Disney treatment fro 20 years ago for their abandoned project) and just how much clear love they had for it. I don't mean useless Star Trek: The Motion Picture love, I mean actual, functional, "We have to have this, and this, and this, those two things would be cool, anything else we can ditch, and these seven new things have to be here, otherwise there's n o point"

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Ubik said >>>Good point. I suppose it really depends where JMS mind is at as to the ‘reboot’. Logically, I would assume he want to use this as a fresh start, so he can set a new baseline and then expand on it from there. The film could lead into a new TV series, with WB blessing, or it could be a series of films, which seems more likely. It all depends on where JMS wants to take it.<<<

One of my kids had an interesting comment the other day: "Just make a movie with a cool name. Make it something new that no one's ever heard of before, just a cool-seeming space adventure that everyone goes into cold. Then, halfway through, have President Sheridan turn up on TV and give a speech, or something. Nothing major. It's a self-contained story that happens to be set in the B5 universe, but it's got no direct connection to anythign we've seen before. If fans catch it, cool. If not, who cares? If people are interested, they'll look into B5. If not, again, who cares? You made a good movie."

I thought it was neat.

UBIK said: >> Same was true of Serenity in relation to Firefly. Although, I will say this… it annoyed me deeply that all the characters were set back to square one. Rich, well rounded characters from the show characters had become ‘angry sarcastic captain’ and ‘crazy girl’.<<<

Yeah, I was pretty disappointed by that movie, too.

 

[KoshN]

If it's going to be 'Babylon 5' then it has to have 'Babylon 5' in it. What is the point of calling a movie 'Babylon 5' if it's about something else entirely?

Theres enough story in that 5 year arc to rip a chunk out and make a feature.

It'd be called "Babylon 5: __________________________" to indicate that the setting is that of the "Babylon 5" universe.

 

[Ubik]

I'm still disappointed we don't yet have a continuity correct B5 porn parody. Trek has one... grumble...

 

[KoshN]

I'm still disappointed we don't yet have a continuity correct B5 porn parody. Trek has one... grumble...

I'm disappointed that we haven't had a continuation and resolution of Crusade in ANY form and that TNT-Atlanta hasn't been swallowed by a sinkhole.

 

[JonFrain]

I'm still disappointed we don't yet have a continuity correct B5 porn parody. Trek has one... grumble...

I'm disappointed that we haven't had a continuation and resolution of Crusade in ANY form and that TNT-Atlanta hasn't been swallowed by a sinkhole.

I think JMS held onto hopes of addressing that story and the telepath war on screen somehow. Now it's too late.

 

[Ubik]

I'm still disappointed we don't yet have a continuity correct B5 porn parody. Trek has one... grumble...

I'm disappointed that we haven't had a continuation and resolution of Crusade in ANY form and that TNT-Atlanta hasn't been swallowed by a sinkhole.

Maybe those audio dramas will happen EVENTUALLY! (not sexy ones... the ones JMS promoised with the rest of the Crusade WTHH books)

 

[KoshN]

I'm still disappointed we don't yet have a continuity correct B5 porn parody. Trek has one... grumble...

I'm disappointed that we haven't had a continuation and resolution of Crusade in ANY form and that TNT-Atlanta hasn't been swallowed by a sinkhole.

I think JMS held onto hopes of addressing that story and the telepath war on screen somehow. Now it's too late.

That's why I wish we could have it in novel form, I could imagine the actors as they were in 1999. For new roles, I'd cast appropriate actors who I think would fit, e.g. Eric Etebari as Elizar in the Technomage trilogy.

I'm still disappointed we don't yet have a continuity correct B5 porn parody. Trek has one... grumble...

I'm disappointed that we haven't had a continuation and resolution of Crusade in ANY form and that TNT-Atlanta hasn't been swallowed by a sinkhole.

Maybe those audio dramas will happen EVENTUALLY! (not sexy ones... the ones JMS promoised with the rest of the Crusade WTHH books)

In the fullness of time, I guess. It's been almost 15 years since Crusade's last episode was shown in first run. Hopefully, it won't take another 15 years for the the rest of the Crusade What the HELL Happened books to come out.

 

[Ubik]

I'm disappointed that we haven't had a continuation and resolution of Crusade in ANY form and that TNT-Atlanta hasn't been swallowed by a sinkhole.

I think JMS held onto hopes of addressing that story and the telepath war on screen somehow. Now it's too late.

That's why I wish we could have it in novel form, I could imagine the actors as they were in 1999. For new roles, I'd cast appropriate actors who I think would fit, e.g. Eric Etebari as Elizar in the Technomage trilogy.

I'm disappointed that we haven't had a continuation and resolution of Crusade in ANY form and that TNT-Atlanta hasn't been swallowed by a sinkhole.

Maybe those audio dramas will happen EVENTUALLY! (not sexy ones... the ones JMS promoised with the rest of the Crusade WTHH books)

In the fullness of time, I guess. It's been almost 15 years since Crusade's last episode was shown in first run. Hopefully, it won't take another 15 years for the the rest of the Crusade What the HELL Happened books to come out.

Given the pace and amount of projects JMS is tied into, I think it could be a while! I'm not even that fussed about the rest of the WTHH books (even the first one felt like a bit of a stretch to me, and too padded out), but those audio dramas, I definitely like to hear them.

 

[Jan]

Keep in mind that the audio dramas will be for the two unproduced JMS scripts only - not new material.

Jan

 

[KoshN]

Keep in mind that the audio dramas will be for the two unproduced JMS scripts only - not new material.

Jan

To the Ends of the Earth

and

End of the Line.


Yeah, they can't be new material in Babylon 5 or Crusade because Warner Brothers owns all of Babylon 5 and Crusade except theatrical movie rights.

 

[butlerd]

I honestly don't know. I really can't think of anything that could have been done better in the original series other than the SFX, which IMHO weren't the most important part of the original series. While I would love to see more B5 and would love to see it on the big screen with even cooler modern day SFX, I'd prefer it to be a continuation of the original series rather than a reboot. I mean, how can one improve on an already basically perfect show? And there are still plenty of unexplored areas of the series such as the Telepath War and Drakh War that don't exist on screen. While one or two roles might need to be recast (i.e. Dr. Franklin, G'Kar), it could still be done and the age of the key actors/actresses shouldn't matter a whole lot since both events happen in the near-to-far future of the series. The obvious problem, however, is drawing in enough new viewers and maintaining the fans. As somebody else suggested, rebooting Crusade wouldn't be such a bad idea since it barely got started. It's one thing to take a failed TV show like Battlestar Galactica and reboot it decades later and make it a success. I don't know how you can take what was a relatively successful show that had five seasons and several TV movies and add anything more to it other than telling more related stories. *shrug*

I don't know how JMS plans to reboot B5 into a movie-length feature film.

 

[Ubik]

I honestly don't know. I really can't think of anything that could have been done better in the original series other than the SFX, which IMHO weren't the most important part of the original series. While I would love to see more B5 and would love to see it on the big screen with even cooler modern day SFX, I'd prefer it to be a continuation of the original series rather than a reboot. I mean, how can one improve on an already basically perfect show? And there are still plenty of unexplored areas of the series such as the Telepath War and Drakh War that don't exist on screen. While one or two roles might need to be recast (i.e. Dr. Franklin, G'Kar), it could still be done and the age of the key actors/actresses shouldn't matter a whole lot since both events happen in the near-to-far future of the series. The obvious problem, however, is drawing in enough new viewers and maintaining the fans. As somebody else suggested, rebooting Crusade wouldn't be such a bad idea since it barely got started. It's one thing to take a failed TV show like Battlestar Galactica and reboot it decades later and make it a success. I don't know how you can take what was a relatively successful show that had five seasons and several TV movies and add anything more to it other than telling more related stories. *shrug*
I don't know how JMS plans to reboot B5 into a movie-length feature film.

B5 was without doubt one of the best SF series ever made, but it definitely wasn’t perfect. I won’t go into the ins and outs of where I think it fell down, but we all know the show had its flaws. I mean, I kinda love those flaws too, because they’re part and parcel of the B5 experience, but flawed it was.

However, the main point I wanted to make was that I don’t think a reboot would necessarily be about improving upon the old show, or putting things to right that JMS wasn’t happy with. I don’t think he’s interested in that type of ‘George Lucas-esque’ revisionism. I’m speculating here, but I think JMS would keep the basic premise and universe, but he’d be telling a different story, with twists and turns even a seasoned B5 fan wouldn’t see coming, I think JMS has too much respect for B5 for it to be a ‘do over’. Everything he’s said so far, seems to indicate something more inventive than what we consider a ‘reboot’ to be.

I also tend to feel that some events left untold were meant to stay that way. When I get to really thinking about it, I’m unsure if the Telepath War would make that interesting a film or mini series. There’s not an awful lot of mystery or suspense to be had there, and I never really had any burning desire to see it explored in that much depth. If the Byron arc was anything to go by, JMS really didn’t have that much in the way of quality material relating to telepaths.

IF, for instance, the Telepath War had been worked into the overall arc of B5, it might have been quite good, but the interest would lie in how it affected the crew of B5 and the station as a whole. As a stand alone entity, not so much. I did my best to re-imagine it as a central conflict in my Reboot proposal earlier in this thread. See what you make of that.

 

[hypatia]

If there is a reboot, does that mean the whole Sinclair-becomes-Valen thing?

I always found that to be one of the most amazing parts of the show. And one of the best plot twists, ever.

 

[Ubik]

If there is a reboot, does that mean the whole Sinclair-becomes-Valen thing?

I always found that to be one of the most amazing parts of the show. And one of the best plot twists, ever.

Hard to say really... It's anyone's best guess what the arc would be. I'm still convinced JMS wouldn't be content to simply tell the same story again. Although, a LOT of his B5 themes and material does get recycled into his earlier comics work, sometimes almost verbatim.