I do not understand SCI-FI's reluctance

[Technomage Roanna]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
I would however say there's a fair chance they'll increase a bit should Rangers be given a series.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Quite possibly, but they can't rely on that to make a decision to go with the financial commitment for a NEW series AND the fees to continue running the older one.

Ro


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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gkarfan:
I think we need to tell SFC how much we want another B5 spinoff. Maybe they should be made aware of b5lr.com, too. If anything cold prove to them that the B5 fans still care, this site is it!

Tammy
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've got to agree with Joe D.'s views on this thread. It's a business.

I don't want to be harsh Tammy, but Networks don't care if B5 fans still care. This is a business. B5 fans make up but a small segment of the actual B5 audience. What SCI-FI wants to know is if there are enough more casual B5 viewers (or even folks who've never seen B5 at all who might find Rangers of interest) to sell ads with at least the same rates they've used this year.

This is particularly important for SCI-FI because it's overall ratings have gone relatively flat. They've more picked up viewers because of increased penetration then increased viewership. That's made them one of the bigger Cable network. Now they have to pick up more viewers just to stay even. And even isn't where they want to be.

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[StarStuff]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

Not to belabor the point but if any pilot is promoted then the initial showing is likely to have a large audience. I know that Joe D. said on another thread that they tract a show and see if people tune out half way through, etc. But if a show is even mildly interesting then most of a target audience will stay with it at least through the pilot.

How can a decision be made on such an artificial situation?

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God be between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StarStuff:

Not to belabor the point but if any pilot is promoted then the initial showing is likely to have a large audience. I know that Joe D. said on another thread that they tract a show and see if people tune out half way through, etc. But if a show is even mildly interesting then most of a target audience will stay with it at least through the pilot.

How can a decision be made on such an artificial situation?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You ask a good question. The 'norm' isn't to show a pilot and then see the ratings. The norm is either to make a pilot and extrapolate ratings for a series based on what is seen or extrapolate based on previous work of the showrunner(s). Another alternative, which SCI-FI has used, is to buy an existing series from a non-USA Network and extrapolate from their ratings.

Ratings can be tracked by the minute. The latest ratings software can actually provide the show and show you where ratings go up and down over it.

While advertising can certainly help a premiere it doesn't necessarily cause success. There have been numerous heavily promoted programs that have flopped.

When a series goes on the air, advertising agencies track it over its first few weeks to see if its audience is settling into some kind of expected ratings number. Some shows go down but others go up as advertising and word-of-mouth spreads.

A Network will use its expertise to project what is likely to happen based on ratings. That's the same expertise they use to provide an anticipated rating to the advertisers before the program runs at all. If they don't make that rating they have to provide a make-good to the advertiser.

Best,
Alyson




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[bakana]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

Let's also remember that a Bad advertising campaign can Hurt a show.

Personally, I think that if they Do any advertising, they should let JMS script it.

But, that's not how it's usually done.

Warner, in particular, used to make Very bad choices wehn they were advertising Babylon 5 the first time around.
Some of their ads bore no relation whatsoever to the episodes they were supposed to plug.
Others contained Spoilers.




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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[Zoriah]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

Found this little message from JMS lurking in the mod group addressing those that are somewhat worried by the dwindling ratings of the reruns.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> >Could this be the beginning of the end for Babylon 5? After all, they
>have to make room for all those horror movies. We all know what
>hard-core science fiction they are. :-/

About every few months there's a sky-is-falling message like this...the very
simple fact of the matter is that ANY show that is stripped daily for months on
end is going to start to get diminished returns because all the available
audience has seen it. That it has still stayed generally in the top 10 this
long is pretty much of an aberration. The first time we met with SFC they said
they'd put it on until they more or less ran it into the ground, then rest it
for a while.

These aren't new episodes, they're on their, what, twelfth/fifteenth run by
now, all in?

It has no bearing on anything.

jms

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure if it really relates to B5LR, but it sure made me feel a little better, and helps me focus on being positive rather than negative about the recent uncertainties.

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[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

Btw, a bit off topic, and a bit not...

I noticed that in the new issue of TV guide there's a FULL PAGE ad for Farscape Daily reruns.

And a box in the corner of it say Outer Limits at 8 and Earth: Final Conflict at 9.

I don't remember Sci-fi even doing anything like this for B5 reruns (sure they didn't...it wasn't their show)..but I could be wrong. My memory isn't the best.

Though I think if they had aired Farscape with Now & Again and Earth: Final Conflict and put that box there saying that they were on a lot more people would have watched Now & Again.

Cause they would have known it was actually on.

The problem with N&A's ratings, IMO, is the fact that Sci-fi hardly even supported the show.

Same with CBS.

Both hardly showed ads on TV, CBS only did those side ads once and awhile TV guide, and Sci-Fi did no ads in TV guide.

Now compare that to the support they are giving EFC and FARSCAPE.

Now I understand why they are giving Farscape so much support but EFC isn't their show. They just picked reruns like with N&A and they advertised EFC a lot more then N&A.

Me thinks because EFC is a "Gene Rodderberry" show.

*sigh*

Anyway, back to topic, I have no idea why Sci-Fi is waiting. From what I heard they were VERY happy with the dailys they saw of Legends.

Plus they knew, or at least I'm sure they know, that they don't pick up the contracts of the actors, excutive producers, etc soon they will lose them to other shows...

OF course, its prob this: Sci-Fi really doesn't care. IF they lose an actor or etc they can just replace that actor or etc with a new actor.

IMO, Sci-Fi has made some smart decisions (like getting B5, Crusade, Farscape, doing the Legend of the Rangers movie)..but they've also made some dumb ones like not advertisting N&A enough, putting Black Scropion on the air in the first place, airing a show like Jules Verne which could have been a hit for them at 9 on a Saturday AND then putting it in a death spot like MIDNIGHT.

I think if a show isn't working at a certain time the BEST thing to do is to try and move it to a different day.

If it doesn't work then..well then it is the show.

*sigh*

Anyway, this is way off topic now. Can't wait to see Legend of the Rangers.

Hope Sci-Fi is smart enough to realize that B5 is their franchise now. They make more B5 with JMS and people WILL come!

The only reason B5 reruns are not doing so good right now is cause they've been ran a hundred times.

And as much as I like B5, if something is shown long enough a person doesn't watch it as much. No matter what it is.

DF2506
" Btw, can't wait to see Farscape Daily. I'm a big Farscape fan and I've missed a lot of Season 1 and 2."

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[shanek]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

It wouldn't be so upsetting if they didn't keep giving that despicable psychic fraud John Edward back-to-back episodes four nights a week...Why take the chance on an intelligent series when you can make cheap crap that insults the viewers' intelligence?

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[WarpPig]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

I'd say that Sci-Fi has a lot more info to look at when considering 'Rangers' as a possible show than most - after all, B5 has been shown worldwide and attracted a bigger following than most shows in the genre, and Crusade, which, despite its 'dying before it was born' (through no fault of its own, as the channel will know), still attracted good ratings when first shown.

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[hypatia]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

Where is Houdini when we need him? (Sorry if I spelled his name incorrectly, I admit I am a terrible speller.)

Houdini was that famous magician who also had a taste for the occult. The big difference between Houdini and other occult nuts was: he wanted it to be true AND had the tools to prove when it wasn’t. I don’t think any “psychic” every managed to prove true after a rigorous Houdini shake-down!

Houdini even gave his wife a “code phrase” to test any “messages from the dead” she might “receive” from him. The only time she ever heard that “code phrase” it was later proven the person could have learned it from another source.

Anyhow, Houdini knew HOW to route out the fakers. Where is our generation’s “Houdini” when we need just such skills?


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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Anyhow, Houdini knew HOW to route out the fakers. Where is our generation’s “Houdini” when we need just such skills?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that depends on what you mean by "our" generation. But Penn & Teller probably qualify. A slightly older example is James ("The Amazing") Randi, a magician and escape artist who has exposed Uri Geller, Sylvia Brown and others repeatedly, and how has a standing offer of $1 million payable to anyone who can demonstrate, under controlled conditions, any "paranormal" power or event whatsoever from dowsing to channeling spirits.

No one has ever come close to winning the million bucks, and most "psychics" don't even bother to try. (Sylvia Brown announced that she would accept Randi's challenge on the Larry King show exactly 173 days ago, but she has yet to contact the James Randi Educational Foundation to discuss the conditions of the test. Randi keeps a running counter on his website, and I just checked it.)

The test for the Randi Challenge, by the way, are not conducted by Randi or his Foundation. The claimant and JREF must agree on a panel of experts to design and conduct the test, and on the test parameters themselves. Then the panel does the actual testing. No one connected with JREF is involved.

The sad thing is that even though Randi has been doing this sort of thing for over thirty years, even frauds that he's exposed repeatedly like Uri Geller are still out there doing the same cheap tricks and fleecing the gullible. I just saw Geller on a show the other night - on either The Discovery Channel or TLC or all places - rambling on about how all humans are telepaths and telekinetics but just don't know it.

To learn more about Randi and his battles with the likes of John Edward and Sylvia Brown (including transcripts of their "readings" where you can count up the hits and misses for yourself) go to his website: The James Randi Educational Foundation

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>It wouldn't be so upsetting if they didn't keep giving that despicable psychic fraud John Edward back-to-back episodes four nights a week...Why take the chance on an intelligent series when you can make cheap crap that insults the viewers' intelligence.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because the crap is cheap to produce (especially compared to something like Rangers) and it gets ratings. Again, this is a business kids, not a seminar on art or morality or the good, the true and the beautiful. Shows that are profitable for the network stay on the air. This is the law of the jungle. And this "talk to the dead" nonsense is going through one of its periodic revivals with someone using the same old carnival tricks that these characters have always used. Don't blame the network, blame the gullible viewers who are tuning in and voting with their ratings points.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

John Edward averaged a .8 on the week of 8/13. It, also, brings in a demo (older women) which is weak for SCI-FI. Expect that to be the number the strips are judged against.

Best,
Alyson

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[bakana]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

Unless the con artist is getting an ungodly salary, "John Edwards" has got to be the Cheapest show SciFi has. In that respect, almost every bit of ad revenue it brings in is pure gravy.

It's a Cash Cow.
Corporations Love Cash Cows.

What I would expect to see is JE moving to a much less desirable time slot once SciFi has something better to replace it with.

I'd bet JE attracts the sort of audience who will follow it anywhere. If so, it wouldn't matter where they stick it on the schedule.

Shows like Rangers (Expensive Shows), OTOH, need to be in time slots where the audience doesn't have to "hunt it down" so that casual viewers will continue to tune it in and get Hooked.

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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[The One Who Was]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

"These aren't new episodes, they're on their, what, twelfth/fifteenth run by
now, all in?

It has no bearing on anything.

jms"
--------------------------------------

That's all I was saying....


"Again, this is a business kids, not a seminar on art or morality or the good, the true and the beautiful. Shows that are profitable for the network stay on the air. This is the law of the jungle."


Who here doesn't know that?

BTW, what kind of ratings has John Edward's show been receiving?


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"Faith Manages"

 

[The One Who Was]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

"It's a Cash Cow.
Corporations Love Cash Cows

"

Is it the cash or the cow you have a personal interest in?
If neither, stop grinning

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"Faith Manages"

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>What I would expect to see is JE moving to a much less desirable time slot once SciFi has something better to replace it with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ask and ye shall receive. Sci-Fi has announced that Crossing Over is moving to weeknights at 11:00 and 11:30 PM ET/PT.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[Hesperous]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

The 4.1 rating for "In the Beginning" for its first run on TNT was due to the size of this fan base. It is alot bigger than we think. I believe that the best thing we can do as fans, is to tell other Sci Fi fans about the show. I am responsible for at least 10 new viewers to B5 for run #4. If they hook 2 more, we will win!!!

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[jaxb5ranger]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

Look at what Sci Fi did with StarGate - new eps. were airing on Showtime and demonstrating not just the promise of an audience, but an actual measurable one. Sure of what they were getting, Sci Fi picked it up.

The Ranger movie can serve the same function, but unless the umpteenth repeat of B5 produces new show like ratings, unfortunately I don't see any reason for Sci Fi to put bigtime $$ behind a project that might not pull in the viewers it would need to. All of here are confident it would but our "hard evidence" is 2nd hand, outdated, accecdotal, or not really germaine. Those types of arguments will not win over execs. who are putting thier careers on the line every time a new series goes on the air.

My ideal Sci Fi lineup for Fridays:
8 -Rangers series
9 -Farscape
10-Stargate
11-Invisible man
midnight-Lexx (if it has to be on the air at all)

a more likely scenario if all those shows are on the network at the same time, they'd break them up into two nights...

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-Devin Barber

 

[Jomar]

Re: I do not understand SCI-FI\'s reluctance

It's easy for us to sit here and cite all sorts of reasons why Rangers will be a success, but we don't have to balance the books. The point is we don't know what options SciFi has open to it. For instance, where is Jeremiah going to be shown?

There are a limited number of science fiction fans in the country and I suspect most of them are already tuned to the SciFi Network. To get their attention a new show has to be spectacular and original, e.g. Farscape.

I don't want to be hit on the head here

but Rangers doesn't sound either spectacular or original. (Airship travelling through Space to many different universes). Where have I heard that before. It is only JMS's writing that is going to make it unusual and different. It is because of him that we are all so sure it will be a magnificent show and a successful show.

Also there are only so many prime time hours a week, and a new expensive show would have to be fitted into the prime time audience.

I guess we'll just have to wait till that big meeting in November, but by that time the date of B5LR showing will probably be set

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