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IGNFF LOTR review

Setting aside the Crusade/TNT issues for a moment, I've always respected Glen's views from way back. Even when I disagreed with him, I always came away feeling like I had a handle on why he felt the way he did about something.

Case in point, I understand his points on Crusade (he even has some valid points), but I strongly disagree with him about the quality of the final product. Out of the gate, I thought Crusade showed more promise than B5.

The value of reviewers lies in the fact that you get to know their tastes. Meaning no disrespect to Glen, from that review I feel that I'm going to disagree with him again. The crux of the matter comes down to his statement that the Gathering has "vastness and dimension" that TLADIS lacks.

For my own part, I find the Gathering a poor introduction to a great series. I saw very little of that vastness and dimension he spoke of. I skipped much of the initial run of the first season because of the Gathering.

Of course, Glen could be spot on. Heck, I liked Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, so what do I know?
blush.gif


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"We are (not) all Kosh."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MartinRoth:
I'd be interested to know in what ways Joe's statement is incorrect. There is significant documentary evidence that Crusade was in fact cancelled before any episodes were aired. If that's all wrong, I think you should expect to have to provide some explanation before expecting people to believe you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I would love to know what "*significant* documentary evidence" you are speaking of - and posts from JMS do not count.



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1. This message board gets more surreal everyday. Now we are arguing with the reviewers.

2. Glen Oliver if you wish to correct the look of your posting click on the pencil symbol above your words. The UBB codes act as brackets.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
A quote box is created by
text [ /QUOTE ] .
A bold section by [ B ] XX [ /B ] . (Just remove the spaces.)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Andrew Swallow

[This message has been edited by A_M_Swallow (edited January 18, 2002).]
Click to expand...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tobias Clutch:
Actually, I would love to know what "*significant* documentary evidence" you are speaking of - and posts from JMS do not count.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure why you're not willing to count JMS posts, given that we're only talking about the fact that it was cancelled. (Obviously, if we were discussing why or by whom, I'd agree that they should be excluded.)

Without heading back to NJ to go through my archives, I can simply point out that the fact that TNT billed the show up front as a "13 episode Limited Series" was a dead giveaway that they had no intention of showing more.

Also, keep in mind that this is the *second* set of cancellation reports we're discussing here, not the first set, which were indeed false.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A_M_Swallow:
1. This message board gets more surreal everyday. Now we are arguing with the reviewers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. Kind of embarrassing, actually. Had it not been for the line about "fandom operates this way", I probably would've been able to leave it alone...


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-- Marty
"Always do what you're good at," they tell me.
So I go around annoying people.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tobias Clutch:
Actually, I would love to know what "*significant* documentary evidence" you are speaking of - and posts from JMS do not count.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there's this report from Glen himself from February 1999 (before Crusade hit the air):
http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=3129


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Here are the production dates for Crusade according to Babylonian Productions. They match everything jms said as far as I can see.

The Needs of Earth 8/3/98 to 8/11/98
The Memory of War 8/12/98 to 8/20/98
Racing the Night 8/21/98 to 8/31/98
Visitors From Down the Street 9/1/98 to 9/10/98
Each Night I Dream of Home 9/11/98 to 9/21/98

[ TNT mandated hiatus ]

The Well of Forever 10/19/98 to 10/27/98
The Long Road 10/28/98 to 11/5/98
War Zone 11/6/98 to 11/16/98
The Path of Sorrows 11/17/98 to 11/25/98
Patterns of the Soul 11/30/98 to 12/8/98
Ruling From the Tomb 12/9/98 to 12/17/98

[ Yearly Christmas hiatus ]

The Rules of the Game 1/4/99 to 1/12/99
Appearances and Other Deceits 1/13/99 to 1/22/99

[ Production halted ]

01/29/1999 - Jms confirms rumours that TNT has cut funding of further episodes.

To the Ends of the Earth was scheduled to be filmed 1/25/99 to 2/2/99, with Janet Greek directing. Value Judgements was scheduled for 2/3/99 to 2/11/99, with Mike Vejar directing.

As for Crusades ratings - the airings started June 9th, long after production had been halted. By that time, TNT had anounced the show as a special limited series, and jms had slammed them thuroughly in public, so i no way could they have contributed to the production halt. Here are the ratings themselves:

War Zone 1.9
The Long Road 1.4
The Well of Forever 1.2
The Path of Sorrows 0.8
Patterns of the Soul 1.3
Ruling from the Tomb 1.3
The Rules of the Game 1.0
Appearance and Other Deceits 1.3
Racing the Night 1.2
The Memory of War 1.3
The Needs of Earth 1.5
Visitors from Down the Street 1.2
Each Night I Dream of Home 1.3

It's debatable whether they are "pretty good" as JoeD stated, though they're certainly not bad for TNT.

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"Come out kittycat... I won't hurt you... much..." (hear it)
-- Blackarachnia, "The Spark", Beast Wars

drakh@spamcop.net

[This message has been edited by drakh (edited January 19, 2002).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Your statement here is incorrect in numerous ways, and reflects belief in a spin control & "party line" (floated at the time pf the events) which ended-up not being entirely accurate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok,

So you said his statement is incorrect. You never said HOW or WHY it was incorrect. Where are your facts to back this up? Seems to me there are plenty of facts in FAVOR of his statement. Seems to me that you just wanted to say 'Im right, you are wrong' without really backing it up.

Opinions on the movie are subjective and exactly that: opinions. But when a reviewer is making statements as you did about a past show's history, it really is your job to get the FACTS correct, and to have something to back that up. Saying 'it is a party line' doesn't mean jack when the production dates ended before the series hit the air. That proves you wrong.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
 
As a pilot, what Ive seen of it so far is phenomenal!

Did they like Enterprise? that show that bores me ever week

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-some must be sacrificed for all to be saved-
 
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