It Was the Dawn of the Third Age of B5-Watching...

[KoshFan]

Some years ago, my partner finished showing me Star Trek Voyager and we moved on to a show of my choice. Since we'd already finished Buffy, I picked B5. We got as far as "Gray 17 is Missing" before we broke up. But not all was lost, because my ex remains committed to watching the whole show! And when finding safe topics of conversation is tricky, what better than discussing a place of diplomacy...?

"Gray 17" was a particularly weird place to stop, so I was eager to move on. Over the course of the last year, we have: last night we watched "Into the Fire." However, due to fairly incompatible work schedules (no small factor in the break-up), we'll no longer be trying to watch simultaneously; we'll keep up a running conversation somehow but watch whenever we can.

It struck me, in a flippant sort of way, that it was the Third Age of B5-Watching: first, as a couple watching together, then as exes watching together trying to stay friends, and now charting our own courses... or at least our own schedules.

I find I'm in an unusual place, in relation to B5. For years I have been the expert, knowing exactly what was going to come next, with whole scenes and episode sequences memorized, doling out cryptic hints that would make Kosh proud. But it has been a very long time since I saw any episode after "Into the Fire." Indeed, I haven't even seen all of the episodes in Season 5! Let me put it this way: I've seen "Signs and Portents" more times than I can count and I have the Emperor's speech from "The Coming of Shadows" engraved on my heart -- but the last time I saw "Endgame" and "Wheel of Fire", I was watching on VHS tapes which had occasionally been taped over (hence not seeing every ep). While I recall most of what I've seen, I won't know exactly what's coming up. And in the case of some episodes, I will literally have never seen it before.

It's kind of exciting. Almost like seeing B5 again for the first time.

I'll keep you all posted.

 

[Karajorma]

Wow. You really live up to your name. No more Kosh after Into the Fire so screw watching the rest of the show!

 

[KoshFan]

Heh. Yes, that's totally it!


...In all seriousness, it's because I'm such a linear-story guy. When I introduce people to the show, I start at the beginning. Then half the fun is watching their reactions. Then they stop watching the show, and I stop too. I've never gotten a convert past "Into the Fire."

 

[Looney]

I am soooo sorry GREY 17 IS MISSING caused your breakup.

 

[KoshFan]

The breakup had more foreshadowing than Londo & G'Kar's death. "Gray 17" didn't even budge the needle. I think my ex actually liked it.

(Actually, I'm always a little surprised how not-terrible that episode is, due to the strength of the Neroon plotline.)

 

[Lennier's Tears]

It's kind of exciting. Almost like seeing B5 again for the first time.

I'll keep you all posted.

That IS very exciting, I'm a little envious! Though I also experience season 5 somewhat similarly. I'm just really not as familiar with it as I am with all the other episodes.

I also agree on Grey 17. The Marcus/Neroon story is really good, and the actual Grey 17 bit is mostly just ... weird. I don't hate it. It just confuses me.

 

[KoshFan]

The actual Gray 17 bit is an interesting idea with rushed/budget execution.

 

[Looney]

The actual Gray 17 bit is an interesting idea with rushed/budget execution.

I definitely agree. I am one who things there could be an entire spin-off series about day-to-day life and mysteries on B5. With a structure so large there are so many places and aspects of the station we never saw. :thumbsup:

 

[KoshFan]

We just watched our first ep separately: "The Illusion of Truth," which I've always hated. Not because it's bad, of course... because it's done so well... For all that we watched it on different days, we still had a good discussion afteward.

Anyway, my ex's first comment was "Mechanical failure in the cryo units MY ASS." Their theory is that Bester sabotaged the cryo units somehow. I took that idea and ran with it: I think the ISN crew went with full knowledge of the cryo units. The sabotage was to make it easier for them to get access/footage. After all, the "blending humans and aliens" story is tailor-made to hit Earther xenophobia; I think they invented the story in advance, got the footage "by chance", and then sprang their trap.

In this theory we must assume that they were doing cartwheels with joy that Sheridan and Delenn accidentally gave them such usefully compromising footage. But I think it makes sense: it's never shown how they got access to the cryo units (to hide their agent, since as the Lurker's Guide points out, somebody probably let them in), and either Bester told them about the teepsicles, were told about it by some other agent, or they figured it out on their own (not hard).

 

[KoshFan]

I forgot to keep you all posted here! And I don't have time tonight -- early morning tomorrow, and a long day ahead.

But having just watched "Endgame" while reading the Ex's written commentary, I was highly amused: they kept saying, "This is all too easy! When's the other shoe going to drop?" Which is of course a very wise attitude when watching this show. But this time, it all goes pretty smoothly -- because the plot does not have time for it to go badly, not when they were trying to wrap up the show in just a few episodes!

It's fun to imagine what might have been: Garibaldi would have had to work way harder to convince everybody, I'll bet Sheridan's rescue would have taken a full ep, and the fall of Clark would have been much more intense and required far more than a convenient voice-over monologue by a never-before-seen senator. The Non-Battle of Mars could have been waaaay longer, too.

 

[Looney]

I forgot to keep you all posted here! And I don't have time tonight -- early morning tomorrow, and a long day ahead.

But having just watched "Endgame" while reading the Ex's written commentary, I was highly amused: they kept saying, "This is all too easy! When's the other shoe going to drop?" Which is of course a very wise attitude when watching this show. But this time, it all goes pretty smoothly -- because the plot does not have time for it to go badly, not when they were trying to wrap up the show in just a few episodes!

It's fun to imagine what might have been: Garibaldi would have had to work way harder to convince everybody, I'll bet Sheridan's rescue would have taken a full ep, and the fall of Clark would have been much more intense and required far more than a convenient voice-over monologue by a never-before-seen senator. The Non-Battle of Mars could have been waaaay longer, too.

Yet I love to delve into what might have been and what could have been.

Have any of you seen STAR TREK CONTINUES? The basic premise is the continuation of The Original Star Trek series with different actors hired to play the main roles. Well I think we should do that with Babylon 5. At a minimum this should be attempted to elongate some of the plot lines and fill in some missing material that we all would have loved to see. Of course, the other aspect would be to continue the series from where we left off; and I mean with the new Ambassadors and the like. Fill in every moment of time from then until SLEEPING IN LIGHT. Yeah I don't really want to see other actors, but I will take what I can get.

 

[Karajorma]

I really liked Star Trek Continues. It was definitely an improvement on Discovery.

 

[KoshFan]

The Ex was not as impressed with "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" as I thought. Liked it as an episode but not as a season finale.

 

[Looney]

I still struggle with when to show it. I showed it in order with one person I did a first time viewing with and then showed it just before SLEEPING IN LIGHT with another first time viewer. I didn't get much of a tangible difference of opinion to nail down the better choice.

 

[Jan]

I still struggle with when to show it. I showed it in order with one person I did a first time viewing with and then showed it just before SLEEPING IN LIGHT with another first time viewer. I didn't get much of a tangible difference of opinion to nail down the better choice.

I would never, ever, Ever show anything but the final three episodes in exact order. Regardless of any supposed chronology, nothing should ever break that final emotional ride. IMNVHO, of course.

 

[Looney]

Not me. I always say SLEEPING IN LIGHT should be the very last. Now that isn't to say I have a problem with showing the final three episodes as the very last chapter. But I definitely feel SLEEPING IN LIGHT should be seen as the final chapter in the twenty or so years of the Babylon 5 Universe we get.

 

[KoshFan]

Well, folks, I've finally done it: I've now seen all of B5.

Yes, only just now. I watched Season 5 for the first (and heretofore only) time on VHS owned by friends, and due to some bad recording, we missed two whole episodes: "Day of the Dead" and "Phoenix Rising." I watched "Phoenix" today, and so I have finally seen every ep of Babylon 5, as of 20 minutes ago.

Why? Well, it's because I do things in order. I wasn't going to watch Season 5 by itself, and I wasn't going to watch the whole show just for the heck of it. But I'm still taking my ex through the whole arc, and after years -- and years after we broke up, frankly; I take a little pride that we're still friends -- we finally made it here.

My reactions? In all honesty, I expected to hate Byron more. He is annoying and his plotline is full of holes (Delenn solved a similar issue in the last act of one episode back in Season 1; where was she this whole time?), but the sheer hatred of the character led me to expect something truly execrable, and it didn't happen. And everyone complains about the song. We heard it once, folks, once -- and then Byron sings one line at the end -- and that's it. As annoying characters go, that's hardly the worst B5 has ever seen. (B4's commander, anyone?)

Seeing more of Bester, and finally hearing the "How stupid do you think I am?" line was a lot of fun, in a terrible way.

"Day of the Dead" was fun but a slight letdown. I had expected worse of the telepaths and better of Gaiman, I guess. And much better of Rebo and Zooty. I'm totally with Lochley on this one.


In one of the last few eps, Londo meets his old friend Lord Jano. I'm sure Jano has been mentioned before in the series but I can't find any cross-references in the Lurker's Guide. Anyone remember? I think it would have been in Season 1 or 2. Incidentally, Jano was sufficiently helpful that I instantly knew he was doomed. Damian London as the tragic & doomed Regent is just magnificent. "I think we're well pastels, now..."

 

[Looney]

Well I think one issue might be that you were spoiled on so many aspects of Season 5. Had you not heard going in that people hated Byron or that Rebo and Zooty existed you might have had different reactions. I don't hate Byron. I think the problem with Byron is that people REALLY like the the Telepath Arc and Byron is the weakest link. During the original run people anticipated a big Telepath showdown eventually becoming a reality and Byron was a let down as far as catalysts go.

I agree that it did seem like Lord Jano was referenced more than once, but I can't remember when. I think it might just be some other time in Season 5.

 

[Jan]

I agree that it did seem like Lord Jano was referenced more than once, but I can't remember when. I think it might just be some other time in Season 5.

Lord Jano only appeared in the one episode. There was a Lord Jarno who got a name-check in "Dust to Dust", though.

That said, that Lord Jarno was married to Lady Morella who shared the name with Emperor Turhan's third wife who visited the station.

Jan - your friendly neighborhood script wizard ;-)

 

[Looney]

I agree that it did seem like Lord Jano was referenced more than once, but I can't remember when. I think it might just be some other time in Season 5.

Lord Jano only appeared in the one episode. There was a Lord Jarno who got a name-check in "Dust to Dust", though.

That said, that Lord Jarno was married to Lady Morella who shared the name with Emperor Turhan's third wife who visited the station.

Jan - your friendly neighborhood script wizard ;-)

Thank you "Wizard" Jan. So the name was mentioned like I thought.