ITB DVD RCE?

[Kribu]

Yeah! That's great news.

I have been thinking of getting a region-free stand-alone player anyway - for renting some region 2 DVDs and viewing any non-RCE R1 DVDs I might buy in the future, and leave my DVD-ROM set on R1 for the RCE R1 ones - if this DVD is not RCE, I might actually go on with the purchase sooner than I would otherwise have done it.

I mean, DVD-ROM is great and all but I'd rather watch the movies on bigger screen than 17'' (and I don't have the TV-out stuff in the computer).

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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>DVD video is compressed in MPEG2, a format independent of viewing platform. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not quite. MPEG2 is a codec, not really a video format. The input signal must still have an actual video format governing resolution and color encoding - in other words what you're encoding with MPEG2 has to start out as NTSC, PAL or SECAM. The output file format may be MPEG2, but it is going to have the video characteristics of the source signal, which is why there are separate PAL and NTSC versions of DVDs.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Not quite. MPEG2 is a codec, not really a video format.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oops. Now that I think of it... most true. I am aware that something like MPEG2 shouldn't really be called a format, yet I always forget it and take the easy way. A codec... or simply a standard... or one hell of a set of standards.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The input signal must still have an actual video format governing resolution and color encoding...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is well outside my area of expertise, but I am slightly doubtful of that. I recall a short passage from the MPEG2 descriptive texts: receivers either not capable or willing to reconstruct the full resolution video can decode subsets of the layered bit stream to display video at lower spatial or temporal resolution or with lower quality.

Temporal resolution = frame rate.
Spatial resolution = resolution.

I know very little about the kind of MPEG2 actually used for DVD movies. Haven't dug that deep. But my guess is this: the input signal which is encoded for DVD exceeds both the temporal and spatial resolution of standard-definition television, no matter if PAL or NTSC.

I would *guess* that its resolution and framerate are chosen to look decent on a computer screen. If this guess is correct, a stand-alone DVD player would simply downscale the original resolution to suit the limits of television: interlaced, about 500 lines, about 25 Hz.

If the above assumption is correct, there would be no absolute need for separate PAL and NTSC releases -- as both of these outputs can be produced by downscaling a higher-resolution video stream. But I am likely to be wrong.

1. Would a DVD provide enough space and transfer speed for storing a higher-resolution signal which a stand-alone DVD player could then reduce to fit any TV requirements?

2. What would the quality of such a reduced signal be? Perhaps it would be less than magnificent, which would be the reason why DVD makers try to use a signal most suitable for the output device (which I would guess still means mainly television sets).

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As for the lack of RCE... woo-hoo!

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 04, 2001).]

 

[bakana]

NTSC & PAL are "leftovers". Once HDTV is solidly established, the newer sets will undoubtedly be able to display the video in whatever format & resolution the original signal used.

Unless TV manufacturers get into the "Region" crap.
Something I don't really expect.

For a TV display manufacturer, the ability to build One Box that can be sold anywhere has been a goal for years.
Now that we have Digital, that goal has been reached.
Display whatever picture there is.
If it's too wide or too skinny, it'll letterbox appropriately.

It'll be pretty much the same as what you do now when you set up your computer monitor:
You go into a configuration screen and tell the Video driver program to use the best resolution your monitor is capable of and it does.



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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

 

[GaribaldisHair]

I have been reading this thread with some interest, not to mention a modicum of puzzlement, and a growing sens of frustration.

Having just (the day before yesterday) taken delivery of my swanky new PC with DVD-ROM drive and TV-OUT I have tried to get to the bottom of this whole regional coding thingy.

Being in the UK, I am R2 (as I understand it), and my DVD drive is one of these maximum 5 region change jobs. If I set the drive to R1 and leave it there I obviously need to only buy DVDs from the USA - which I can certainly live with.

However, what is RCE ?? How does it work ?? And will it have any impact on my ability to play R1 DVDs on a drive bought in the UK ??

I knew there were geographical "quirks" with DVDs but I had not idea they were so far-reaching. Seems like a hugely regressive step to me.

I have recently self-published a CD of my own music and made it available to the world via the internet. It seems that that sort of thing would be almost impossible to accomplish with DVDs.

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DaveC
"Want to talk socks?"

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Apologies for mistakes beforehand.
I am not very well-versed in the history of DVD.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>GaribaldisHair wrote:

However, what is RCE ?? How does it work ?? And will it have any impact on my ability to play R1 DVDs on a drive bought in the UK ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To answer your question thoroughly enough, I will have to get into a bit of history. When the DVD standard was developed several years ago, region codes were nowhere to be seen. Nobody had yet stumbled upon an idea of comparable stupidity.

Or they had, but DVDCCA was not confident enough to try pushing it through. Thus the first wave of DVD equipment did not support region codes. Such drives are known as RPC1 or phase 1 equipment.

As their influence grew, DVDCCA forced equipment manufacturers into adding RPC2 or phase 2 support. Some did it more and some less eagerly, but eventually most did -- because several standards governing DVD technology are proprietary. Simply building DVD-compatible equipment may get you sued to a slow and painful death. To counter this threat, you will either have to be outside relevant jurisdiction or have a private army of lawyers.

So an ordinary DVD drive on sale today is an RPC2 drive. It has a counter registering the number of region changes. After 5 changes, it locks. You can only play disks originating from the region which is set on your drive, and regionless disks (common for software and non-Hollywood movies).

Fortunately most drive manufacturers have some respect for their customers. They leave back doors into their products, making them easy to modify. They avoid the risk of being sued by DVDCCA, leaving modification to third parties and hackers. Third parties are not bound by agreements with DVDCCA while hackers prefer to stay anonymous.

---

DVD players can be modified to be region-free in two ways. Part of the first group is affected by a recent addition to region codes called RCE.

1. Making the drive act like an RPC1 device. After modification the drive will pretend that it does not support region codes. Ordinary disks play well, but RCE may end it. This is why many multiregion users are pissed off with RCE.

2. Disabling the counter, keeping the drive in RPC2 mode. This is the right way -- maintaining compatibility with all disks. Your drive treats the disks just like a region-protected drive, but you can change regions as many times as you want.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>It seems that that sort of thing would be almost impossible to accomplish with DVDs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need to worry.

When you are the one publishing a disk, you can choose its format. If you choose region zero (equal to no region) it can be played on every DVD drive.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 06, 2001).]

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Thank youfor that, Lennier. It all now becomes clearer, if no less frustrating.

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DaveC
"Want to talk socks?"