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JMS at SDCC - the news
- Thread starter Jan
- Start date
AnlaShokGrey
Regular
Recoil, Andreas just died, only five months ago. He wasn't just an actor JMS worked with; he was JMS's friend. And, JMS is a not just a writer: he is a human being, subject to all of the emotional ups and downs of all human beings. Being a creative person, he's probably more affected by them (and before anyone tries to engage me in an argument, I do not mean that creative people have more feelings than other people; just that their emotions affect what they write/create, so it has more of a tangible, sometimes financial impact on them).
So if he's still feeling the sting of a recent death, and he just a week or two ago got very choked up when answering somebody who asked at a panel about telling the Lyta/G'Kar story (I can't be the only one who listened to that mp3 file of Heroes Con before it got pulled), I don't know how you can expect that he'd be ready to just plow full speed ahead into a big, feature Babylon 5 film, something that would require him carefully plotting around the absence of two major characters, both people he liked and respected, and one of whom has just passed and whom he called friend.
To say "Life goes on" at this point is a pretty cold sentiment, IMHO.
Give the man a little time to deal with his grief, for cryin' out loud. Probably none of us have been precisely in his shoes - having to mourn both a friend, and the death of a beloved character he created - so have a little heart.
Jan
Regular
Nope. I love a lot of his non-B5 stuff and look forward to each thing.
Correction...He said he can't see how to structure something really big without Andreas and Rick--for now. Possibly down the line, in a year or so he'll be able to.
You have to understand that JMS has not only lost characters with Andreas and Rick's passing, he's lost people with whom he worked for years, people who brought his writing to life and people who he called friends.
I was at the Heroes con in Charlotte over the weekend of the Fourth of July and saw him choke up completely when asked if the Lyta/G'kar adventures might be seen in another form. His reply was that the character's gone-he can't write G'Kar any longer. This is hard for him and life doesn't simply pick up and 'go on' as if nothing had happened when you're grieving.
Jan
darth_librarian
Regular
Was it Demon with a Glass Hand? I had the same thought as well. I'm sure all of this is a result of digging through old scripts.
Other random ideas of mine include overlaps with the novel series, and a Crusade / Legend of the Rangers continuation / wrap up? Who knows... Focusing upon core B5 characters whilst touching upon these storylines would be great. Was there any information on how long these would be? Are we talking a series of one hour shows, or longer tv movies?
As for the movie, I respect his intentions and feelings. He is also really, really busy right now, in case you didn't notice.
For me, a B5 movie can wait, for now Rising Stars and Midnight Nation are both superb, and would trnaslate to screen well. You could tell that just by reading through them. i hope both of these projects take off.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
I love the Ron Howard quote.
I do too.
KoshN
Super Moderator
I should have known better, but I was hoping for something to do with Crusade, just like I was in 2001 when the Legend of the Rangers idea
was picked <u>instead</u> of a continuation of Crusade. Maybe JMS avoided Crusade this time, because of Rick Biggs' connection to it. Rick died on May 22, 2004, two weeks <u>after</u> JMS's comment at Hawthorne (May 8, 2004):Otherwise, I think something about Crusade would be the obvious choice of what to start next in the B5 universe. It's the major story that's been left hanging for the last 7 years.
Shaal Mayan
Regular
I have to agree with what Jan and AnalashokGrey said that was a pretty cold statement IMHO.I want a B5 movie as much as the next person but JMS is also human like the rest of us.And he actually knew both actors and I think I can safely assume that most people on this board never really knew Andreas or Rick that well.Have a little heart.
On the subject of the Changling sounds suddenly more interesting I love most mystery/thrillers and it's set in the 20's a favorite time period in history.
B5_Obsessed
Regular
If the so-called and long-rumored Telpath War feature exists in outline or even rough draft script form, there's a good chance that it feautured all all the regular actors. The film was to be a big payoff reward to those who had worked so hard, for so long, for so little. Undoubtedly, G'Kar and Franklin were featured somehow. I believe G'Kar, in particular, may have been featured heavily. After his two year journey with Lyta, he may have become her closest friend. Having nearly destroyed himself over his hatred of the Centauri, he was spared and became something greater. He might have been the voice of reason desparately trying to discourage Lyta from following her self-destructive vendetta to its end. He would ultimately fail, thus providing the emotional context that G'Kar always brings to the screen.
So when JMS says he doesn't know how to structure it right now, I'm thinking he needs to do some major character shifts to make all the pieces fit again, and his heart just isn't in it right now.
For now, I'll take LOST TALES, or any tales. If they're all written and directed by jms, that can't be bad at all.
Jan
Regular
I think the 'directed by' part is what's most exciting to me. I so loved SiL and it wasn't just the script and the music. JMS said that his favorite stories were 'two guys in an elevator' and that he loves using the skills he learned writing plays to turn things on their heads. I'm hoping for a number of off-format shows that he can do so well.
Jan
KoshN
Super Moderator
On the other hand, maybe "Babylon 5 The Lost Tales" could touch upon the Crusade storyline without much of a commitment on anybody's part, and that might make it more likely to be able to get some of the actors back, and it would defuse some of the negative reaction amongst pure B5 fans and rast members compared to if the whole thing was a continuation of Crusade.
If the whole thing was a continuation of Crusade, I'd bet my bottom dollar that quite a few rast regulars would immediately come out of the woodwork with vehement campaigns against it.
If the whole thing was a continuation of Crusade, I'd bet my bottom dollar that quite a few rast regulars would immediately come out of the woodwork with vehement campaigns against it.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: "Life goes on"
People need to remember how JMS (and many writers) work. When he sits down to write a scene, he basically thnks of a situation and the characters he knows so well and then turns on their voices in his head and transcribes what they say. And certainly ever since the cameras first rolled, those voices have been the voices of the actors. So for JMS to write a scene with G'Kar, he has to turn Andreas's voice on in his head, see his face under all that make up and bring the character's emotions to the surface. Could you do that now? I sure as hell couldn't, and I'm just a fan who watched the man's work and never so much as met him.
Stuff like this can take a very long time to work out.
I had a nodding acquaitance with a couple people who died in New York and Washington on September 11th and several who narrowly escaped. One of my cousins was a NY firefighter (since retired on medical disability) who arrived on scene just as the 2nd tower fell and whose fate was a mystery for the better part of a week. (Finally someone spotted him in the background of a live TV picture and could see his face and read his name on the back of helmet. Nobody actually talked to him until several days later.) One of my uncles was then the pastor of the Catholic church closest to the Pentagon. In July of 2001 he celebrated the 25th anniversary of his ordination, and the parish threw him an enormous party. I met many of his parishoners that night, including a lot of military people serving in the Pentagon. A number of them were killed or seriously injured in the attack two months later.
I mention this because a month or so ago I was part of a train-the-trainers class where I work, dealing with stress response and emtional support for first responders in medical emergencies, natural disasters and terrorist incidents. In the course of the discussion I twice brought up lessons from 9/11, both things that I've read in the literature and things my cousin told me about from his first-hand experience. These were fairly dry, factul matters, recommended procedures, and statistics, not dramatic narratives or survivors stories, but on two different days I found myself suddenly choking up and unable to speak. That's about an event that happened nearly five years ago and which didn't kill anybody I knew well. Some rocks are just harder to turn over than others. I'm inclined to cut the man some slack.
On a lighter note:
I was curious, too, so I e-mailed Jan. Don't forget that what JMS said is that WB is planning this as a direct-to-DVD release if no network signs on. Right now one is "interested", but the planning seems to be based on DVDs. JMS said they're planning on 3 "episodes" per disc. Depending on extras, soundtrack and other intangibles, that works out to roughly 3 75 minute or 3 90 minute segments per disc. (With commercials that would work out to 90 minute and 2 hour time slots, respectively, for broadcast.) So they'd be producing them in batches of three. I think this rules out 1 hour anythings, since a dual-layer disc could easily hold four full one-hour segments (without commericals) or 4 45 minute standard "one hour" TV episodes. So there'd be no reason to do three at a time if they were dong any variation on hour shows. (A true one hour without commercials seems unlikely, since to ever air it on commercial TV you'd either need a 75 minute timeslot, which American TV is not geared for, or a 90 minute time slot with half an hour of commercials or other filler. Sci-Fi tried this when they ran the unedited original Trek episodes in a 90 minute slot. It didn't work out very well.)
Regards,
Joe
People need to remember how JMS (and many writers) work. When he sits down to write a scene, he basically thnks of a situation and the characters he knows so well and then turns on their voices in his head and transcribes what they say.
And certainly ever since the cameras first rolled, those voices have been the voices of the actors. So for JMS to write a scene with G'Kar, he has to turn Andreas's voice on in his head, see his face under all that make up and bring the character's emotions to the surface. Could you do that now? I sure as hell couldn't, and I'm just a fan who watched the man's work and never so much as met him. Stuff like this can take a very long time to work out.
I had a nodding acquaitance with a couple people who died in New York and Washington on September 11th and several who narrowly escaped. One of my cousins was a NY firefighter (since retired on medical disability) who arrived on scene just as the 2nd tower fell and whose fate was a mystery for the better part of a week. (Finally someone spotted him in the background of a live TV picture and could see his face and read his name on the back of helmet. Nobody actually talked to him until several days later.) One of my uncles was then the pastor of the Catholic church closest to the Pentagon. In July of 2001 he celebrated the 25th anniversary of his ordination, and the parish threw him an enormous party. I met many of his parishoners that night, including a lot of military people serving in the Pentagon. A number of them were killed or seriously injured in the attack two months later.
I mention this because a month or so ago I was part of a train-the-trainers class where I work, dealing with stress response and emtional support for first responders in medical emergencies, natural disasters and terrorist incidents. In the course of the discussion I twice brought up lessons from 9/11, both things that I've read in the literature and things my cousin told me about from his first-hand experience. These were fairly dry, factul matters, recommended procedures, and statistics, not dramatic narratives or survivors stories, but on two different days I found myself suddenly choking up and unable to speak. That's about an event that happened nearly five years ago and which didn't kill anybody I knew well. Some rocks are just harder to turn over than others. I'm inclined to cut the man some slack.
On a lighter note:
I was curious, too, so I e-mailed Jan. Don't forget that what JMS said is that WB is planning this as a direct-to-DVD release if no network signs on. Right now one is "interested", but the planning seems to be based on DVDs. JMS said they're planning on 3 "episodes" per disc. Depending on extras, soundtrack and other intangibles, that works out to roughly 3 75 minute or 3 90 minute segments per disc. (With commercials that would work out to 90 minute and 2 hour time slots, respectively, for broadcast.) So they'd be producing them in batches of three. I think this rules out 1 hour anythings, since a dual-layer disc could easily hold four full one-hour segments (without commericals) or 4 45 minute standard "one hour" TV episodes. So there'd be no reason to do three at a time if they were dong any variation on hour shows. (A true one hour without commercials seems unlikely, since to ever air it on commercial TV you'd either need a 75 minute timeslot, which American TV is not geared for, or a 90 minute time slot with half an hour of commercials or other filler. Sci-Fi tried this when they ran the unedited original Trek episodes in a 90 minute slot. It didn't work out very well.)
Regards,
Joe
Jade Jaguar
Regular
While I completely agree that they will produce episodes of a length suited to fill out standard TV timeslots, with commercials added, I don't think you can rule out the possibility of 3x(60m - ads) eps. It could be that JMS wants to make a series of three -part stories, designed for one hour timeslots, and the reason to do three at a time could be an aesthetic one, not based on what neatly fills out a disc.
Certainly, 3x(90m - ads) eps would make sense on a DL disc, using about three hours and 22m of program time, as would 3x(90m w/o ads) on a DL, double sided disc, with some extras. But I would expect JMS to concern himself primarily with the artistic considerations, secondly, how to fit them on a disc, and last, whether they would totally fill a DL disc, or a two sided DL disc. Besides, 3x45m eps is 2 hours, 15m, and with 30-60m of extras, would fit nicely on a single-sided DL disc, or a double-sided single layer disc.
As to how TV should handle showing the old, longer "hour" shows, without cutting, I've always thought they should place two one-hour shows back-to-back, in a two and one half hour time slot. That way, they wouldn't have to pad. I haven't seen anyone doing it though.
Emh
Member
You raise some excellent points. I always figured G'Kar would have some hand in it but I didn't really consider how. I tend to think that the big conflicts would be Lyta and Garibaldi confronting Bester, attempting to extract revenge against him for their own personal reasons.
Something that popped in my mind a few months ago was the possiblity of seeing Talia again. I couldn't help but wonder if she plays a large role in the war because of Jason Ironheart, maybe as far as suggesting that his gift to her becomes vital in the war. The dynamics between her and Garibaldi would be interesting, no matter which side she took.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
JMS has said that the authorized trilogies are basically canon, but that he does not feel himself bound to every detail in them. In short, what happens in them is "real" until and unless he does something on screen that contradicts them.
So they are dangerous guides to what can and cannot happen in the B5 uinverse. JMS didn't hesitate to contradict his own account of the desstruction of the Black Star from early season two when it came time to depict the event for In the Beginning. Still, it is worth noting that in the Psi Corps trilogy it is stated that Michael Garibaldi, for all his wealth and influence, has never been able to acertain the fate of Talia Winters, despite trying for the better part of 20 years. If this remains part of the story then we can be sure she never joined Lyta's group, or Garibaldi would have heard from or about her, and that she played no prominent role on Bester's side, either. After the war Garibaldi comes to believe that any record of what happened to her may have been lost to battle damage.
BTW, I think that JMS could and likely will find some way to include G'Kar, at least, in any feature film. All his speeches and set-pieces would allow for voice overs, messages, flashbacks galore and Lyta could certainly hear her old mentor's voice in her head at many points in her struggle. The use of such footage and recordings would require payment to Andrea's estate of course, which in this case would probably be arranged on unusually generous terms.
Regards,
Joe
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Especially since they were married, then divorced.
I can't help but wonder how JMS can DO all this stuff, even just what is certain, and happening. He has to write a script for Touchstone, write scripts for B5:tLT, gear up to shoot and direct same, by September, while working with Ron Howard, and doing development on some other projects! WHEW! Seems like more than one person can handle, all at once! But, on the bright side, with SO MUCH going on, surely something will actually get made!
AnlaShokGrey
Regular
And none of us saw Andreas at the end: sick, having lost his hair, wasted away from the disease and eaten away from the chemotherapy. JMS did. As you say, it's not easy to just package that sort of thing up and put it aside.
I don't want to double post, so I'll use this reply to also reply to Emh as well. I don't think Talia's gift from Ironheart would figure large in the Telepath War: that 'gift' was meant to be a replacement telepath-boost when Pat Tallman didn't sign on to the first season. Lyta had had the direct telepathic contact with the Vorlon; that was what was supposed to make the super-enhanced telepath JMS needed. When they got Talia instead, they enhanced her through Ironheart. Since Lyta turned out to be the telepath of note after all, I think it would be mainly her Vorlon-enhancedness that would be important in the Teep War rather than the also-ran Talia's 'replacement gift.'
Amy
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Add to that, Ironheart's gift to Talia was telekenetic powers, which Lyta exhibited in abundance, later on. I agree, Talia certainly isn't necessary to the Teep Wars, but she would fit in, if JMS wanted her to. Using her would have possibilities, such as another superteep, working for Psycorps, to oppose Lyta. And, perhaps at a crucial moment, to have her original personality come back and save the day, to destroy Psycorps. Of course, that IS a bit more obvious than JMS' style usually is.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
That was just the beginning. Talia also made it possible for the rogue telepaths to project an illusion into Bester's mind - something that all of them together shouldn't have been powerful enough to do. JMS has admitted in the script books that he really made her too powerful too soon. Had Andrea not left the series Talia would have gone on to become a full-blown Thermo-Teep every bit as powerful as Lyta. And there really isn't room in JMS"s universe for that (which is also why he had to get rid of Jason Ironheart. As he said at the time, "I don't like characters that powerful running around the plotline." It becomes too easy to allow them to become a deus ex machina. Worse still, you have to keep coming up with reasons for them not to save the day when they very obviously could. It is the problem of having Superman in the Justice Leaague or Thor as a member of the Avengers. You either have to neustralize them somehow or keep increasing the powers of your villains because otherwise the logical thing would be for the other heros to sit around playing Mah-jhong while Supes or Thor mops up the floor with the Bad Guy of the Month. The Great Machine became a similar embarassment for JMS after the third season, one reason I think it was supposed to remain an occasionally-glimpsed mystery until S4 - when it helped find the first ones and the end of S5 when it fulfilled its destiny by sending B4 back in time - and just possilby destorying iteslf and maybe even Epsilon 3 in the process. This obviously wasn't possible once Sinclair left and the story changed.)
Regards,
Joe
Emh
Member
Ah, that's what I get for not reading The Psi-Corp Trilogy yet (I keep saying "One of these days..."). I'm sorry to hear that Garibaldi never finds Talia. However, if he did, what would we do? He was happily married to Lise. True, he cared about her safety, but what next?
JMS has said that the authorized trilogies are basically canon, but that he does not feel himself bound to every detail in them. In short, what happens in them is "real" until and unless he does something on screen that contradicts them.
Still, it is worth noting that in the Psi Corps trilogy it is stated that Michael Garibaldi, for all his wealth and influence, has never been able to acertain the fate of Talia Winters, despite trying for the better part of 20 years. If this remains part of the story then we can be sure she never joined Lyta's group, or Garibaldi would have heard from or about her, and that she played no prominent role on Bester's side, either. After the war Garibaldi comes to believe that any record of what happened to her may have been lost to battle damage.
BTW, I think that JMS could and likely will find some way to include G'Kar, at least, in any feature film. All his speeches and set-pieces would allow for voice overs, messages, flashbacks galore and Lyta could certainly hear her old mentor's voice in her head at many points in her struggle. The use of such footage and recordings would require payment to Andrea's estate of course, which in this case would probably be arranged on unusually generous terms.
Regards,
Joe
I agree on the points raised about Jason Ironheart. I'm grateful that JMS realized that he would easily become a deus ex machina and there was no need of such things in his universe. Nonetheless, that's not what I was thinking when I considered the idea of seeing Talia in the Teep War. I figured she would be very strong, but not quite on the scale of Lyta, and certainly not on the scale of Jason Ironheart. I simply thought it would introduce some interesting character dynamics for Garibaldi.
