Jms debunks Crusade burial speculations... Again...

[drakh]

Not wishing steal JoeD's glory, but I figure he won't mind as long as I credit him for asking the question: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>>Your most recent comments quoted on "Cinescape On-Line" have produced the
>latest round of "See, I *told* you 'Crusade' is definitely dead" posts.
>Based on your earlier comments, I didn't read it that way. It just sounds
>to me like you have a plan "B" in mind in case Sci-Fi decides it absolutely
>*isn't* interested in "Crusade" after "Rangers" has been on the air for
>awhile. Otherwise your preference would still be to finish the "Crusade"
>story on a show called "Crusade." Am I wrong?

Sigh...I guess these are people who, on finding one door locked, never think to
go in a window and just leave. You *always* have a plan B. Also a plan C, D
and E.


jms

(jmsatb5@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



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You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert

 

[taichidave]

Sorry for doubting. I admit, I'm a pessimist when it comes to television.

/Grumbles under breath/ He could've said as much to begin with...

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"We are all Kosh."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

thank u Drahk, JoeD...


and most of all thank you Jeebus

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I have no one to envy...
I envy you having me to envy...

 

[hypatia]

Yea, save "Crusade"!

But I must say that there was an impression being given in that article (intentional or not/editing influence or not) that seemed to hint at something negative. It would be like telling your aunt that your two sisters are fine but making no mention about your brother.

This seems to happen a bit with JMS quotes too, I've noticed.

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

 

[Jomar]

It sounds to me like JMS really doesn't know whether Crusade will be picked up, but he is ready to go with it if asked to do so. He will go with Plan A, continue with the original Crusade, or Plan B, tack it on to Rangers or Plan C, D, or E, whichever comes first.

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[GideonsMine]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
Not wishing steal JoeD's glory, but I figure he won't mind as long as I credit him for asking the question:

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehehehehe, now that is a really great "see, I told you so?".

Clever, the man is sooooooo clever.



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Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)

 

[GideonsMine]

Yo Peeples,

JmS appears to be a guy who wants to rule the Sci Fi world.

Hopefully Sci Fi will grant him the opportunity to bring to us an intelligent Sci Fi universe. Oddly I will take whatever I can get, I just really really want Crusade back, even to the extent of the Rangers (sorry but that's how I feel).

But anyway, I just want more JmS on TV. I do not read comic books, I don't have a lot of time to read books, but I do in many respects use as escapism my sci fi shows. You can have the TV on while you are doing other things, whereas you cannot read a book and too much in the line of other things. Plus my eyesight is medically no longer the best and I don't want to push it.

I will take what I can get.



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Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)

 

[WarpPig]

Anyone care to speculate what plans C, D and E might be?

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[**DONOTDELETE**]

it seems that sometimes JMS has more patience than we all do. but then why wouldnt he? he knows what happens in the Crusade arc. I'd rather know about it than about the rangers to tell the truth. fraid sinclair and marcus were about the extent of my interest in the rangers.

i do hope that at some point in time, we all get to find out HOW the Crusade story ends and hopefully with the same crew! somehow, i dont think i could live with a replacement for Max, Galen or Gideon!

i guees time will tell!

alex



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[Cern]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WarpPig:
Anyone care to speculate what plans C, D and E might be?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PLAN C: Series of 2-hr movies like A CALL TO ARMS and IN THE BEGINNING

PLAN D: Novels and Comics, maybe an animated series

PLAN E: Sock Puppet theatre. (ala Sifl & Ollie)

PLAN 9: Resurrect the Dead to use as an Army to conquer Earth.

PLAN 69: JMS uses his contacts in the intelligence agencies to take photos of various TV execs in compromising situations for blackmail purposes.

PLAN 666: JMS conjures up his Dark Lord, Satan, to stare at the children of TNT executives at bedtime.

PLAN X: Stockpile all known supplies of the Rackinpinion Molecule, the best Yo-Yo polish in the Galaxy.


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Eat More Goat.

[This message has been edited by Cern (edited August 17, 2001).]

 

[drakh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cern:
PLAN 666: JMS conjures up his Dark Lord, Satan, to stare at the children of TNT executives at bedtime.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And you think they'd notice any difference?

 

[Cern]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:

Originally posted by Cern:
PLAN 666: JMS conjures up his Dark Lord, Satan, to stare at the children of TNT executives at bedtime.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And you think they'd notice any difference?

Maybe not. But if he's anything like the demon that sits on the foot of MY bed while I try to sleep...well its best left unsaid.


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Eat More Goat.

"The good four. Honest with ourselves and with whatever is friend to us; courageous toward the enemy; generous toward the vanquished; polite-always that is how the four cardinal virtues want us."

Nietche

 

[terrytvgal]

I don't believe I'm entering into this debate again. But I just can't help it.

Are any of you here Dr.Who Fans? Do any of you know how long fans of the series have bought into every rumour and glint of hope that maybe something is almost going to happen to possibly revive the series??

I used to be one of those people. Now I say, "When I'm sitting in front of the TV watching the credits role at the end of a new episode,Then I'll believe the series has a chance of returning. After all the thing wouldstill have to survive in the ratings game to have a solid return.

That's how I see the Crusade situation. Those with a vested interest in seeing the series return are never going to flat out say the possibility of return is Nil. After all if they admit to defeat surely it will never happen. Where there is life there is hope, and JMS is one of the most positive and optimistic people I know in SF these days.

What he says in the Cinescape Story is:


“Well, CRUSADE was five years after the events of BABYLON 5,” says Straczynski. “[B5: THE LEGEND OF THE RANGERS] is two and a half years after the events of BABYLON 5, so in theory if one season equals one year then in about two and a half years we’re going to run into the events of CRUSADE.””


When asked flat out if, at that point, he would deal with the series within the setting of B5: THE LEGEND OF THE RANGERS, the creator merely replies: “Yes. Absolutely. It’s a sneaky way of handling it, but its nice.”

That is pretty straight forward. Absolutely is a strong word. I take it to mean that he will deal with the Cruasde stoy in RANGERS.


What he says in response to Joe D's question is as cryptic as it ever is when fans ask him about this issue.

Sigh...I guess these are people who, on finding one door locked, never think to
go in a window and just leave. You *always* have a plan B. Also a plan C, D
and E.
jms
I see this as saying, "The Crusade door is locked, so I'm going to go another route (through Rangers) to get where I want to go."(Finish the Crusade story)

I see 'these people' as the ones who persist on trying to bang the door down (get the Crusade series back) rather than go out the window (find another way to get the Crusade story told).

In the end, Crusade fans will still likely be better off than Dr.Who Fans. The likelyhood of the Crusade story being finished is far more likely than a return of Dr. Who.

As always, I'm delighted to be 'the devils advocate

' Take your swipes at me if you so please, I can take it!

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The avalance has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

 

[taichidave]

terrytvgal:

No swipes here.

The major difference between Crusade & Doctor Who is that the good Doctor had better than 25 seasons of stories. It had a great run and died of natural causes. Since then, it has lived on in many novels and a TV movie.

Gideon & Co. were blown away before they even aired. They didn't get a chance to get through their story. The creative well is largely untapped. By this yardstick, Crusade is a better candidate for revival.

I think, though, given its track record, a new Dr. Who project stands a better shot of seeing light of day than Crusade. Not only has it been done already with the aforementioned TV movie, but Dr. Who has time on his side. It has no actor fixed to the role. They can always regenerate a new face. To be viable, Crusade would have to retain most if not all of the cast. Most of them seem like they'd like to return to the B5 universe, but things happen in the meantime. Pierce Brosnan lost his 1st shot at 007 because he was under contract with Remingon Steele.

I'm not saying it can't be done. Not by a long shot. But it could be very, very difficult. If anyone could do it, JMS could. It seems he inspires loyalty in most of his dealings with cast and crew. That's a rare thing.


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"We are all Kosh."

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I see 'these people' as the ones who persist on trying to bang the door down (get the Crusade series back)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you see the exact opposite of what is there, and I don't really know how to respond. The "these people" that JMS and I are both referring to are the "See, I told you Crusade is dead" crowd. That is clear from my message, and from his response. If he had been trying to say that the folks who want Crusade back are wrong, trust me, he wouldn't have been shy about saying, "Joe, you're wrong and they're right. I'll finish the story on Rangers."

I've been exchanging messages with the man for years, and we've been over this topic before. The exchange I quoted is from an dialogue that we have been having since Sci-Fi picked up the rights to B5. At every step of the way (when they bought B5 but not Crusade, when Rangers was announced, when Jeremiah was announced) the chorus has always been "This means Crusade is dead" and his answer has always been the same, "No, it doesn't. We're not even close to making that decision yet. These things are done a step at a time."

JMS has never hestitated to pin my ears back when he thought I was flat-out wrong about something. I don't know why he would suddenly stop now and post an "ambiguous" message that makes much more sense when read my way than when read the way you see it.

Regards,

Joe

------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[taichidave]

Joe:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>JMS has never hestitated to pin my ears back when he thought I was flat-out wrong about something. I don't know why he would suddenly stop now and post an "ambiguous" message that makes much more sense when read my way than when read the way you see it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right. When I read your post and JMS's, I see that I must have misread the intent of his Cinescape comments.

But you must confess it was an easy mistake to make.

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"We are all Kosh."

 

[terrytvgal]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:

JMS has never hestitated to pin my ears back when he thought I was flat-out wrong about something. I don't know why he would suddenly stop now and post an "ambiguous" message that makes much more sense when read my way than when read the way you see it.

Regards,

Joe

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then why was he so straight forward about saying he would 'Absolutely' deal with Crusade in Rangers?

When asked flat out if, at that point, he would deal with the series within the setting of B5: THE LEGEND OF THE RANGERS, the creator merely replies: “Yes. Absolutely. It’s a sneaky way of handling it, but its nice.”


If he's saying he Will Absolutely[/] deal with Crusade in the Rangers when talking to Cinescape, why would he say otherwise to a fan? What he says here is unambiguous and VERY straight forward. Are you contending he is allowing himself to be misinterpreted on Cinescape and telling the truth only to selected fans?

Please Joe, I'm not trying to impune anything you say, I only want to sort out the reasons why one statement, (the one to Cinescape) would be so unequivocal in saying Crusade would be dealt with in Rangers, while you state JMS is saying something contrary to that in his correspondance to you...

In the spirit of discussion as always, Terry

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The avalance has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

You have to understand a couple of things about the Cinescape article and the background to it:

1) This is not an interview transcript. We are not given the exact questions and the exact answers. The former are paraphrased, the latter edited.

2) In the past JMS has indicated that he was not interested in pursuing the Crusade story outside the series itself.

3) The final JMS qoute has to be read in the light of the one that precedes it.

They're hitting JMS with hypothetical questions about what he might do in a series that hasn't been approved yet to deal with another series that's been off the air for two years.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>If he's saying he Will Absolutely deal with Crusade in the Rangers... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But he doesn't say "He absolutely will" he says "He absolutey would." And would is a contigent word. If you ask me if I would donate a kidney if my sister needed it, I might (and I emphasize might - just in case she's reading this

) say, "Yes. Absolutely." That doesn't mean I have definite plans to give up a kidney. It means that if that hypothetical situation arose I would be willing to do so. My preference would be that her own kidneys stay healthy and that I'm not called upon to make the decision.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>When asked flat out if, at that point, he would deal with the series within the setting of B5: THE LEGEND OF THE RANGERS, the creator merely replies: “Yes. Absolutely. It’s a sneaky way of handling it, but its nice.”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But what was the exact question? Was it, "So, you wouldn't rule out ending the Crusade story in Rangers?" or was it, "So, you definitely plan to end the Crusade story in Rangers?"
Or even "Would you end the Crusade story in Rangers under the following circumstances?"

That "Absolutely" is beginning to look a little less absolute, is it not? In the context of everything else he's said on the subject that can be read as "Yes. Absolutely, (if Crusade isn't coming back). It's a sneaky way of handling it, but it's nice."

Given that the interview is ambiguous, and JMS's reply to me - which came after he had seen the published version of the interview - isn't, I don't see any contradiction. His reply follows my question with regards to who "these people" are, and he picks up my suggestion of a plan "B" - so the question and reply are clearly in agreement about what is being discussed. And, as I said, he and I have been over this ground several times in the past, so we both already knew that "these people" refers to the Crusade nay-sayers, not to those of us who maintain there is still a chance of the show's returning. (Not a great chance, just a chance.)

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited August 17, 2001).]

 

[GKarsEye]

As I said above, "deal with it" is an extremely amiguous term.

Deal with it /= Completely tell the whole story and resolve any threads opened in Crusade.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
JMS has never hestitated to pin my ears back when he thought I was flat-out wrong about something. I don't know why he would suddenly stop now and post an "ambiguous" message that makes much more sense when read my way than when read the way you see it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks Joe for your wonderful site for all the B5/Crusade disenfranchised. Apparently we are legion. I've been closely following the Crusade situation since day 1 but have never really voiced my opinion, like all you people. I commend you all on your devotion and persistance. It's like from the very beginning, CRUSADE was fated to become a fall-guy for how crappy the current ratings system is. Or whatever it is that keeps shows at a Disney-fied commerical mentality levels on the air. Besides money. Why would JMS call it 'Crusade' if not for in the back of his mind he knew that it would be canned, and become the catalyst of a freakin' crusade to watch good genre TV. Not to sound ignorant, but as a lifelong sci-fi fanboy i would have to say that I pretty much disappointed at all of the shows currently on other than Farscape (and B5 were it on obviously). It is above and beyond the best genre anything currently being produced. I have not even seen the newest season, living in Canada without a satellite dish, I'm quite sure it does not disappoint. Of course I love Crusade and B5 and the rest, its just too bad that art and selling commercials don't mix. I'm sure this season will be another litany of Cleopatra/Xena level schlocks offered for our consumption. How tiresome, I can't wait for the internet to be the source for all of our broadband entertainment. Maybe we will then be allowed to watch incredible genre shows like Crusade without the fear of cancellation because its demographic couldn't be found. Back to the point, he did say 'Absolutely'. Wow have I been waiting a long time for that. Thanks.

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"Things change...Long time gone."