JMS hints at some new info...

samuelk · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Also, JMS has talked about the DVD's because the cat is out of the bag, but that doesnt mean he can speak to what he KNOWS WB's press release to be about. They would probably frown on that.

[/quote]

Ok, granted, I was wrong when I mentioned "small subset".

But look at it this way. JMS has been talking about the DVDs for the last week or so. He's talked about the technical specs (widescreen, sound remastered in Dolby 5.1) and the extras (commentaries, interviews).

Why would he be so secretive about a DVD announcement when he's already talked at length about the DVDs?

If JMS knew of the upcoming official DVD announcement, he would say something like, "WB will officially announce the DVDs on August 10th" or something like that. He wouldn't give a vague hint about a DVD announcmenet because the cat is already out of the bag, so to speak.

It's NOT DVD-related.

GShans · Jul 8, 2002

it will definitely be about the DVD's, but there may be some additional info thrown into the announcement about something else b5 related.

samuelk · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
it will definitely be about the DVD's, but there may be some additional info thrown into the announcement about something else b5 related.

[/quote]

As I said...if it were about the DVDs, JMS would have said it's DVD-related. He has NO reason to keep that fact hidden, and he's not the kind of person to string the fans along for no reason.

This is something OTHER than DVDs.

Recoil · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Originally posted by samuelk:
Why would he be so secretive about a DVD announcement when he's already talked at length about the DVDs?

If JMS knew of the upcoming official DVD announcement, he would say something like, "WB will officially announce the DVDs on August 10th" or something like that. He wouldn't give a vague hint about a DVD announcmenet because the cat is already out of the bag, so to speak.

[/quote]
As JoeD mentioned above, that would be a breach of protocol most likely. JMS can sort of feel free comment on the fact there are DVD's coming himself because the cat was let out of the bag. However Warner Bros has NOT pubically announced it yet. Remember the only ones who are aware B5 DVDs are coming are those of us who actually hunt that info down on the internet. With a DVD release WB will make an announcement of their OWN to officially announce the product. JMS telling us that WB is going to announce officially the DVDs would be in bad taste. I believe the phrase is called "stealing their thunder." (even though there are a FEW of us who already know they are coming)

samuelk · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
As JoeD mentioned above, that would be a breach of protocol most likely. JMS can sort of feel free comment on the fact there are DVD's coming himself because the cat was let out of the bag. However Warner Bros has NOT pubically announced it yet. Remember the only ones who are aware B5 DVDs are coming are those of us who actually hunt that info down on the internet. With a DVD release WB will make an announcement of their OWN to officially announce the product. JMS telling us that WB is going to announce officially the DVDs would be in bad taste. I believe the phrase is called "stealing their thunder." (even though there are a FEW of us who already know they are coming)

[/quote]

Check some DVD news sites. You'll see information on upcoming "official announcements" quite often. Bob Gale, writer/producer of the Back to the Future films, talked about when the DVDs would be officially announced long before the announcement actually occurred. It's not a breach of protocol to say when the DVDs will be officially announced.

It does seem kind of odd to officially announce something long after people know about it, but that's the way it works.

An official announcement of an upcoming DVD is not as secretive as what's ON the DVDs.

And if you consider a JMS Usenet post to be "hunting down information", then remember that his post about this upcoming announcement is also a Usenet post--so it would be no more or less secretive.

It's possible that it COULD be Legend of the Rangers on DVD, or maybe Crusade. But it's definitely NOT the official announcement of the Season 1 DVD box set.

Recoil · Jul 8, 2002

If you say so. Just wait and see at this point.

gangster · Jul 8, 2002

Recoil wrote: "Just wait and see at this point. "

That's all we can do. And all can be wrong. /forums/images/icons/devil.gif

gkarfan · Jul 8, 2002

Oh, I *hate* Jinxo from Grail! /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif Glad I'm not the only one, FlipperPA!

Tammy

Joseph DeMartino · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Bob Gale, writer/producer of the Back to the Future films, talked about when the DVDs would be officially announced long before the announcement actually occurred. It's not a breach of protocol to say when the DVDs will be officially announced.

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Bob Gale is in a slightly different position in the Hollywood food-chain than JMS is. Just because a major film producer can get away with thumbing his nose at protocol, doesn't mean the protocol doesn't exist, and doesn't mean that it is something a television writer producer like JMS should attempt.

So this example tells us nothing.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
An official announcement of an upcoming DVD is not as secretive as what's ON the DVDs.

[/quote]

I think you mean "secret". /forums/images/icons/smile.gif Nobody is saying that the official press release is secret. I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with this point. Let me see if I can explain. An official announcement goes to the DVD/Home Video press and the home video dealers - the idea is to generate publicity and advanced orders. In other words, it is going out to the people who don't hang around on the internet searching for every scrap of information about B5. For 90% of its intended audience, the official announcement probably will be news. They're not aware of JMS chatting with fans on usenet.

The official announcement will probably issue from Warner Home Video's press office. They've scheduled the announcement, they're probably setting people up to handle press inquiries and to arrange interviews (if requested) with people involved in producing the DVDs. I'm sure they don't want the writer shooting his mouth off before they're ready. If you announce the announcement (as opposed to the product) prematurely, you turn it into a real anti-climax. Maybe the Bob Gales of this world can get away with that, or maybe Bob Gale got permission to say something, because Universal's publicity operation is a little looser than Warner Bros.'s. But it is certainly plausible that JMS would not feel that he could tell us what the announcement was about, even if it is the S1 DVDs.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
It's possible that it COULD be Legend of the Rangers on DVD, or maybe Crusade.

[/quote]

Rangers? Extremely unlikely, but conceivable. (WB still doesn't know how the original series is going to do on DVD. But they probably know what the ratings were like when Rangers aired. I doubt they're rushing to get this into stores.)

Crusade? Not a chance in the world. Release the 13-episode spin-off before you know how the much-more-popular parent show is going to do on DVD? Not if you plan to stay in business (or keep your job if you're the one making these decisions.)

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
But it's definitely NOT the official announcement of the Season 1 DVD box set.

[/quote]

Well, we're all speculating. But I think my analysis holds together better, and makes more sense in light of real-world factors and previous JMS comments on who announces what, than yours does. We'll find out soon enough.

And if you consider a JMS Usenet post to be "hunting down information", then remember that his post about this upcoming announcement is also a Usenet post--so it would be no more or less secretive.

It's possible that it COULD be Legend of the Rangers on DVD, or maybe Crusade. But it's definitely NOT the official announcement of the Season 1 DVD box set.

I've got five bucks that says it is either the S1 DVDs or the merchandise licenses. Who's in? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Regards,

Joe

samuelk · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
But I think my analysis holds together better, and makes more sense in light of real-world factors and previous JMS comments on who announces what, than yours does.

[/quote]

I still don't see how.

In this little aside JMS made about an upcoming announcment, he flat-out said that he couldn't say anything about it.

He WOULD have said it was DVD-related if it were. He's already sad a WHOLE lot about the DVDs. Saying when WB was going to officially announce them wouldn't be that big of a deal.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Nobody is saying that the official press release is secret. I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with this point. Let me see if I can explain. An official announcement goes to the DVD/Home Video press and the home video dealers - the idea is to generate publicity and advanced orders. In other words, it is going out to the people who don't hang around on the internet searching for every scrap of information about B5. For 90% of its intended audience, the official announcement probably will be news. They're not aware of JMS chatting with fans on usenet.

[/quote]

Doesn't matter what they're aware of. Like I said before: Check any good DVD news site, and you'll see news bits of upcoming "official announcements" of DVDs LONG before they're actually announced by the studios. And these news bits aren't being made by producers or any people connected with the studios.

Hints of official announcements are made ALL THE TIME. JMS could easily say when WB was going to officially announce the DVDs, and he wouldn't have to hide it.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
The official announcement will probably issue from Warner Home Video's press office. They've scheduled the announcement, they're probably setting people up to handle press inquiries and to arrange interviews (if requested) with people involved in producing the DVDs. I'm sure they don't want the writer shooting his mouth off before they're ready. If you announce the announcement (as opposed to the product) prematurely, you turn it into a real anti-climax.

[/quote]

JMS has already talked about what features are planned for the box set. Do you think WB would care about a leaked announcement date if they didn't care about announcing DVD features (which could change)?

If JMS were to say "WB will officially announce the DVDs on August 1st" and WB missed that date, who cares?

Now what if JMS were to say, "The DVD box set will contain commentaries for every episode, cast and crew interviews, bloopers and outtakes.".... and what if he was wrong? That would raise much more of a stink than if he had missed the date of an official announcement.

Joseph DeMartino · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Check any good DVD news site, and you'll see news bits of upcoming "official announcements" of DVDs LONG before they're actually announced by the studios. And these news bits aren't being made by producers or any people connected with the studios.

[/quote]

Exactly! They're not being made by producers or any people connected with the studios. Because people not connected with the studios aren't bound by studio protocol. JMS is. Are you beginning to understand this now?

BTW, all those announcements you're talking about do ultimately come from people within the studios. Who else would know when the official announcement is coming? But they are leaked (anonymously) by people for their own reasons. (Sometimes just the thrill of seeing their "news items" in print.) The DVD sites publish them because having a "scoop" is one of the things that attracts hits. This doesn't mean that the studios like it when this happens. (I know from talking to Fox Home Video VP of Marketing Peter Staddon that they don't.) And if they knew who was doing it, they'd probably fire the person (or make their displeasure known in other ways.) But since the pieces are run "blind" and they can't force the websites to identify their sources (anymore than they could get the L.A. Times to do the same) they live with it.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Saying when WB was going to officially announce them wouldn't be that big of a deal.

[/quote]

Wouldn't be that big a deal to whom? And how do you know this?

I suspect it would be a big deal to the person responsible for making the announcement if two weeks before he/she sent it out, everyone already knew what it was about. That kinda kills the point of making the announcement.

It comes down to, as JMS has put it, "not stealing someone else's thunder." It is frowned upon, and it is not something he likes to do.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Do you think WB would care about a leaked announcement date if they didn't care about announcing DVD features (which could change)?

[/quote]

JMS told us what he personally was doing on the DVDs, or which actors had come in to do interviews, was probably not that big a deal. Revealing that they were doing a 5.1 remix (which he will almost certainly have to approve) was probably OK'd by WHV.

In other words, he wasn't revealing proposed features. He was revealing things that were either already in the can (the actor interviews) or about to be produced (his commentaries and introduction) There are basically two reasons for announced DVD features to get canned - 1) they aren't produced. (Too expensive, can't schedule the director or whoever to record a commentary track before the deadline for locking the disc.) 2) They are produced, but then dropped. This almost always comes down to a rights issue. (Can't get permission to use documentary footage owned by somebody else, music rights issues, Eric Stoltz pitches a hissy fit.) Neither would apply to any of the features JMS has discussed, which have now all been produced, and are original productions by WHV, and therefore unencumbered by rights issues.

Leaking the contents or subject of a press release is a whole different kettle of fish, especially for someone with an on-going business relationship with the studio. Because the announcement is the product. There's no way to talk about it damaging its impact.

BTW, one thing that would certainly be new in the official S1 DVD announcement, even though it is "icing on the cake" compared to what is already known, is the actual release date. Even JMS hasn't revealed that yet.

Regards,

Joe

samuelk · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Exactly! They're not being made by producers or any people connected with the studios. Because people not connected with the studios aren't bound by studio protocol. JMS is. Are you beginning to understand this now?

[/quote]

JMS isn't bound contractually by WB. At least not as far as B5 is concerned.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
JMS told us what he personally was doing on the DVDs, or which actors had come in to do interviews, was probably not that big a deal. Revealing that they were doing a 5.1 remix (which he will almost certainly have to approve) was probably OK'd by WHV.

...

In other words, he wasn't revealing proposed features.

[/quote]

Not true. He also listed the other cast and crew that WB was trying to get for interviews, including Claudia Christian-- in fact, JMS later posted that Claudia turned down the interview at the last minute.

NONE of the information JMS talked about was actually in the can.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
I suspect it would be a big deal to the person responsible for making the announcement if two weeks before he/she sent it out, everyone already knew what it was about. That kinda kills the point of making the announcement.

[/quote]

No, the announcement is about revealing the official release date and specs of the DVDs. WHEN the announcement is going to be made is not a big deal.

I'm not saying JMS should have revealed the DVD release dates and specs. I'm just saying it wouldn't be a big deal if he had said, "Warner Brothers will be announcing the release date and specs on July 12th".

Knowing when the announcement will be made is not a big deal.

Take a look at the Lord of the Rings DVD news, and you'll see what I'm talking about. People--both connected to the studios and not--talked about WHEN New Line's official announcement of the DVDs would be made. It's not a big deal to know when the announcement will be made

As an example, here's an excerpt from the news section of DVDFile.com:

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
On Tuesday, March 26, New Line will be prepping the world for the new Lord of the Rings DVD and VHS releases, and needless to say, it's gonna be huge! So check back on March 26 for the big news...

[/quote]

And sure enough, the DVDs were officially announced on March 26th.

Now why would it be such a big deal to do this? It's NOT. In fact, New Line probably WANTS word to get out of when the announcement will be.

Keep in mind, I'm NOT saying JMS should have posted the release date of the DVDs. I'm saying it would have been perfectly OK for him to give the date of when the announcement would be made by WB.

gangster · Jul 8, 2002

What I'm reading from Joe's posts is he is (in a nutshell) saying there are big egos in Hollywood and the TV business. And these "big egos" have to be stroked, in the way they want to be stroked, if one is to do business. Thus, it is a no-no to go outside the pecking order.

Joseph DeMartino · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
JMS isn't bound contractually by WB.

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I didn't say he was bound by contract. I said he was bound by protocol. Do you know what "protocol" means? Maybe that's our problem.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Not true. He also listed the other cast and crew that WB was trying to get for interviews, including Claudia Christian -- in fact, JMS later posted that Claudia turned down the interview at the last minute.

NONE of the information JMS talked about was actually in the can.

[/quote]

Really?

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
I did the commentaries on "Signs and Portents" and "Chrysalis", and an on-camera intro and interview. They've also done new interviews with Rick Biggs, Claudia, John Iacovelli, John Copeland, Stephen Furst, Jerry Doyle and others. - JMS, usenet, June 25th 2002 (emphasis added)

[/quote]

He came back on the 26th to post the correction about Claudia because he didn't find out until then that she had cancelled her scheduled interview. He thought it had already been shot.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Now why would it be such a big deal to do this?

[/quote]

As I keep trying to explain, it isn't a terribly big deal when DVD File does this. But it is considered rude when someone connected with the show or the studio does this. I'm not defending the idea, just pointing out that it exists and that JMS is on record as subscribing to it. So whether or not you think it makes sense, it is perfectly plausible that JMS would feel bound not to tell us that exactly what the post-July 12th announcement is going to be about - even if it is related to the S1 DVDs. I'm basing this on many years of reading the man's posts and knowing how delicately he handles certain things when it comes to internal studio politics. You're claiming that it is impossible the upcoming announcement could be about the S1 DVDs because - well, I guess because you don't think that JMS would act in this case as he has acted in dozens of others in the past, because the informal rules under which he operates don't make sense to you.

I really can't argue this any further, because we're no longer in the realm of fact, and statements and past actions, but in the realm of your mind and what does and does not seem reasonable to you. I can't debate what you find reasonable. I can only suggest that this might not be the ultimate test of outside reality.

Regards,

Joe

samuelk · Jul 8, 2002

NONE of the information JMS talked about was actually in the can.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Really?

[/quote]

Yes, really. If you're going to quote him, you need to go back to the point where he started talking about the DVDs:

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Season One will be out in a boxed set this Fall, and they're going to be including at minimum two commentaries from me, probably on Signs and Portents and Chrysalis (it's a matter of how much time and energy I can give to it given that there's no fees involved and I'm in the midst of Jeremiah), and if possible, Babylon Squared, maybe Sky Full of Stars. They'd also like to film an on-camera intro by me (but I guess folks will buy it anyway, even with that particular horror included).
- JMS, usenet, June 9th 2002 (emphasis added)

[/quote]

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
He came back on the 26th to post the correction about Claudia because he didn't find out until then that she had cancelled her scheduled interview. He thought it had already been shot.

[/quote]

You're proving yourself wrong, now. You said before that he only talked about stuff that HE had PERSONALLY done. And you've just proven that that wasn't the case.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
it is perfectly plausible that JMS would feel bound not to tell us that exactly what the post-July 12th announcement is going to be about - even if it is related to the S1 DVDs.

[/quote]

No, it isn't. Because he's already talked about the DVDs before they were announced, and he's already given an approximate date of when they'll be released. Telling people when WB will announce them isn't a big deal. It's not. Reallly.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
I'm basing this on many years of reading the man's posts and knowing how delicately he handles certain things when it comes to internal studio politics.

[/quote]

So am I. I've been reading his Usenet posts since he first started posting about B5 back in 1991.

GShans · Jul 8, 2002

JoeD is right about this, he told us the date of an announcement from WB, if they don't want him to say something, like what it's about, he can't say it, until someone else leaks it, like what happened with the DVD set.

samuelk · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
yep, that's part of it, JoeD is right about this, he told us the date of an announcement from WB, if they don't want him to say something, like what it's about, he can't say it, until someone else leaks it, like what happened with the DVD set.

[/quote]

Not true. The ONLY thing leaked about the DVDs was the fact that the Captioning Institute was creating captions for them. JMS revealed everything else, including possible extras and a general release date.

So what's the difference between announcing the date of the announcement, and announcing what's going to be on the DVDs?

GShans · Jul 8, 2002

once the dvd's were let out, he had full rights to talk about them, and you have got to work on your thinking a bit, you half proved JoeD's statements by your second to last post.

samuelk · Jul 8, 2002

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
once the dvd's were let out, he had full rights to talk about them, and you have got to work on your thinking a bit, you half proved JoeD's statements by your second to last post.

[/quote]

If he could talk about the DVDs, then he could also talk about when WB would officially announce them.

Where do you draw the line at what he could and couldn't talk about?

On a related note, I keep thinking of other stuff this announcement could be about: soundtracks, action figures, model kits, books, table-top games.... the list goes on. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

gangster · Jul 8, 2002

Samuelk wrote: "If he could talk about the DVDs, then he could also talk about when WB would officially announce them.

Where do you draw the line at what he could and couldn't talk about? "

Wherever JMS wants to draw it.

JMS hints at some new info...

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