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JMS talks crusade

Terrytvgal, I think drakh was asking Power of Ten about that strawman thing.

Ok, regarding your arguments... it seems that you've made up your mind that Crusade is dead, not only from the point of view of WB, TNT, and Sci-Fi, but also jms. And you're going to turn every argument that is made against that fact, to mean the very opposite, and not going to consider anything that anyone has to say about it, to be actually true or in anyway accurate. That said, I'll still let you know my own personal opinion.

I wonder why WB has made a point of keeping all the Crusade sets and props in storage, if they feel so strongly that it is dead.

I wonder why the Sci-Fi channel has invested money in buying the rerun rights to Crusade, even asked jms for his preferred airing order, and have said that if the ratings are good enough, they are going to invest in widescreen transfers of Crusade. That is, if they feel so strongly that it's a bad show and it's dead.

And most of all I wonder why, if jms, as you claim, feels very strongly that he has moved on and has no desire to go back to Crusade, he would repeatedly deny comments about Crusade being dead. In essence, he would be leading us on. Infact, you are calling him a lier. I've never seen him lie about anything, anytime. And now you are saying he is lying, giving us false hopes, because he wants to be 'diplomatic'.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Just for starters, do you want me to just sit here and hope that someday somebody buys the show and thus pass up work in between? This to me seems like someone fed up with trying to convey that they've moved on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahem... where exactly have you seen jms try to convey that he has moved on? For him to be fed up with it, he would have to have been doing it for a long time and repeatedly. I haven't seen any post by him where he would seem to be conveying that. On the contrary, I have seen him repeatedly deny any comments that Crusade is dead. If there's anything he's fed up with, it's that. If you can find some comments from him where he is trying to convey he has moved on, please post them here. I'd like to see them for myself.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Again this seems to me to be VERY CONDITIONAL, contingent on SCI FI wanting the series, which it would seem to me would be less likely if they go for the Rangers series. Add into that the other projects JMS has on the boards that SFI FI could eventually get, and ressurecting a series that didn't get off to a good start seems less and less the way to go.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jms has, again, repeatedly said that the Rangers series hasn't got anything to do with Crusade's chances of revival, one way or the other. Only the Crusade ratings have a say in that. And you seem to be saying that because jms has so many other projects, it would be less likely for him to be able to do both Crusade and Rangers. That, too, he has denied. You have now called jms a lier on three (3) different accounts.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>And I'm wondering now if, in the long run, maybe it was the best thing that could have happened. If it had not gone the way it did, I almost certainly would never have been in a position to do the things I'm doing now... I took this as JMS feeling that Crusade was a good idea at the wrong time and that he had made peace with that era and had moved forward in a way he was pleased with. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you still not read the answer jms gave to people who got the same feeling you did about that post? If not, here it is again:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>It doesn't have anything to do with that one way or t'other.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are again claiming jms is a lier, that he is thinking and feeling one thing, and saying the opposite. That's number 4.

vakie

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Crusade is dead, its just that no one bothered to bury it yet.

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PoT: Ignoring my message? Again? Why am I not surprised.

As for the strawman fallacy, which Mr. PoT seems to make frequent use of, here is one explanation.


TerryTVGal: You're using a strawman yourself. You and PoT say that Crusade has no chance of coming back. The quotes I posted here has jms denying this. That's all it takes for you to be wrong - He doesn't have say that there's a big chance - just that there's a chance.

But, the fact is that jms ignores questions he doesn't want to answer. If he felt Crusade had no chance of coming back, if he had no interst in doing any more of it, then he wouldn't have touhed those questions.

Instead he has replied to them every time, each time saying that there's a chance Crusade could come back. The full discussions can be found on http://groups.google.com/ if your interested.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Just for starters, do you want me to just sit here and hope that someday somebody buys the show and thus pass up work in between?

This to me seems like someone fed up with trying to convey that they've moved on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's exactly what it isn't. That response was to someone who claimed that Crusade was dead beause jms had go on to do other projects.
 
::FWWWEEEETTT::

Time out! I don't mind heated arguments - B5 has always been thought-provoking, and that makes for good debate - but I draw the line at personal attacks. POT, you've been warned once already, but he's not the only one. Trolling is verboten here - if you can't say anything constructive about Crusade, then don't say anything at all.

I don't want to close this thread, because it's a good topic, but I will if I have to.

les
posting from work, so be good

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Notice I didn't say you had to say only nice things about Crusade in here. Some of it sucked badly, and some of what didn't entirely suck could have been better executed. Just be contructive with it. How could it have been better done, where do you think the story was headed (besides the obvious), etc.

les

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Terrytv:

I really think you are over-analyzing JMS's posts, and reading them in a way that supports your preconceived notion of what's going on. You're also largely ignoring the context in which his remarks were made, and if there's one thing that B5 proved, context is everything.
smile.gif


Just for starters, do you want me to just sit here and hope that someday somebody buys the show and thus pass up work in between? - jms

That was written in September of 2000, when folks were ready to start watching the reruns on Sci-Fi. Since March of that year, when the Sci-Fi deal was announced, people had been innundating JMS with questions about Crusade, why Sci-Fi wasn't reviving the show or at least picking up the reruns, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>This to me seems like someone fed up with trying to convey that they've moved on . I don't see it as someone saying, "gee I'd really like someone to buy up the series so I can go back to doing it"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that may been what it seems like to you, but as one who was there and following the conversation at the time, I can tell you that it wasn't. What it is is JMS once again trying to explain the realities of television production to some over-eager fans, something he has been doing on-line since before B5 and PTEN were even announced publicly.

JMS is a professional writer. If he were trying to "convey" the notion that he had moved on and that Crusade was dead, at least in his own mind, then I think he could have found a way to actually say that. Instead he patiently explains why it will be some time before any new project for Sci-Fi, Crusade or otherwise, can be discussed.

The question was "I guess this seals Crusade's fate", after all. If the answer were "yes" then I'm pretty sure JMS would have said so, perhaps with an explanation. Instead he launches into a long description of the Sci-Fi decision-tree (first air the B5 reruns, check the ratings. Then buy the Crusade reruns. Air them, check the ratings. After first of year, see where we are, talk about future projects. Some new show could get on the air by 2002.)

Notice that except for the Crusade reruns not even airing until Spring 2001 and the Rangers deal being made earlier, he described the timeline quite accurately. That was his point in responding to people who thought that Crusade was going to be revived instantly. But as always in his posts he did not say "the show's over, I'm moving on."

There was one exception to this. In 1999, after the dust had settled, the cast was gone and it was clear that TNT was not going to give up the B5 reruns, JMS did, in so many words, pronounce Crusade dead and talk only about the other projects he would then be working on. Since the Sci-Fi deal, however, he has always left the door open to a Crusade revival.

I'm not saying that this is likely by any means; I'm well aware of the hurdles that would have to be overcome. But I do think it is possible. I also think that JMS's posts as a whole support this notion. Only certain quotes pulled out of context seem to indicate otherwise, and even then never explicitly. Someone always has to "read between the lines" in order to extract the desired meaning.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
 
Seems to me these kinda threads are pointless. This PoT guy seems quite adamant that its dead, and others are adamant its coming back, and you are all being a tad silly. Bottom line is it is indeed possible, anything is possible. No point in really arguing about it, just wait and see what happens. Jeez.

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In the interest of peace, why must you people hang on a Crusade board if you do not like the show? This is a Crusade board. Go away. It's that simple.

Then there is no arguing, no difference of opinion, just people who like the show and what we want on our board.

Maybe we should just think of this as Survivor and vote you dissenters off the island?

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Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recoil:
Bottom line is it is indeed possible, anything is possible. No point in really arguing about it, just wait and see what happens.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And if nobody contested PoT's statment that Crusade was 100% completly undoubtedly dead, there would be a number of people who would take that as a fact.
 
This is a Crusade board. Go away. It's that simple.

Then there is no arguing, no difference of opinion, just people who like the show and what we want on our board.

Maybe we should just think of this as Survivor and vote you dissenters off the island?
[/B][/QUOTE]

I think you need to rethink that positon. What's the point of a discussion of anythingit you are not interested in having a discusson? I'm not knocking the show or disrespecting any one posting here. the discussion is about the interpretation of someone elses words. I was asked to offer support for my point of view and I did my best to do so. I don't care if you agree with me or not I don't care if you like me or not, but you will NOT curtail my perogative to post a point of view in an open discussion.

Like I said before if you are interested in having a discussion among ONLY people who LIKE CRUSADE and want to believe it will return start that discussion area and I'll stay away. It's intersting that the people I'm discussing this with aren't lobbying for my eviction... If I left who would they have to talk to?

And, lest you think I Don't Want to see Crusade return you're wrong. I don't personally care one way or the other. I just don't happen to think it's gonna happen. If you're so convinced it will, why does my one disenting voice bother you so much?


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The avalance has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vakie:

You are again claiming jms is a lier, that he is thinking and feeling one thing, and saying the opposite. That's number 4.

vakie

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not claiming ANYONE is a liar, and you are on dangerous ground to assert that I did. I presented my INTERPRETATION of what I read, no more no less. EVERYONE here is doing EXACTLY the same thing. Are we all liars for expressing an opinion based on our interpretation of the information availabe?

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The avalance has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
 
That's funny because the last time I checked, Crusade was 100% dead. Either that or its on the longest hiatus of all time.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by terrytvgal:
I presented my INTERPRETATION of what I read, no more no less. EVERYONE here is doing EXACTLY the same thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thing is, you based you interpetation on a partial, out of context quotes. Me and Joe DeMartino base our interpetation on having read jms' messages (and the discussions that promted him to post them) for quite some time. I do think that makes us more quialified, but, of course, YMMV.

In any case, if you're so sure about your own interpeations, why don't you head over to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated and ask him yourself? If you don't know how to set up a real newsreader, there are several web interfaces around, like http://www.newsranger.com/.
 
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