Journeys End in Lovers Meeting

[Lyta]

Here is something that JMS posted today about this week's upcoming episode:

<font color=orange>As I'd mentioned in an earlier note, the episode of Jeremiah that airs this Friday the 3rd of May, "Journeys End in Lovers Meeting," is one of my favorites to date. For those who know my work it's kind of a different sort of creature than I've done before...it's almost fanciful or fairy tale in feeling, but with
teeth behind the softness and an ending that I think will lead to a lot of heated debate.

One of the things I like best about this episode is the look of it. We were knee deep in snow when we shot this thing, and the pure white landscape gives the whole episode an almost unreal quality. It also has one of the best performances to date from Malcolm Jamal-Warner, whose role is very important in
this episode.

Anyway, it's a good one, and I highly recommend it.</font color=orange>

 

[Morden]

I don't like cult episodes, but I trust JMS, so I've just changed to the point where I'm looking forward to it.
Thanks Lyta.

 

[PsionTen]

Best episode ever! I like this one even better than Firewall. I thought that I wouldn't like it at first, because the thought of Kurdy joining a cult just seemed too out-of-character for me. But this episode revealed some things about the Kurdy character that we haven't seen before. Damn, I thought Jeremiah was a complex character. I'm starting to really love this character and beginning to believe that Malcolm Jamal Warner can actually act. That scene where he notices that guy's boots are Jeremiah's and he turns from some sweet poet to a badass that spouts "Motherfu*ker" and starts wailing on the dude was so quick and sudden that it caught me by surprise... damn I love that guy.

Did anybody else have suspicions about the mute guys in the monk robes? I kept waiting for them to bust out with some machine guns and start laying waste.

Anyway, I have one question/observation that I never noticed until now and may be the most screwed up aspect of the entire series....

The Roads. How in the hell can you have roads in that good of shape after 15 years of neglect? In real life, a road starts to break up after a couple of years. If you've even been to Indiana, New Orleans or Mississippi they have worse roads right now than you see in the series. The roads in Jeremiah should be nothing but rubble, cracks and potholes... oh well, just an observation.

 

[channe]

I'm going to join this thread, 'cause I'm not sure when I'm going to see "Journeys End."

The roads are bothering me too, but they're part of the few inconsistencies I'm allowing to wash over me in favor of the story. I'll let it slide, as long as the story continues... /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[Recoil]

Actually, I am going to be going against the grain here. I didnt like this, and to me it was one of my least favorite episodes. I know JMS said it was one of his fav's but hey, I dont have all the same tastes as that guy.

The Kurdy stuff was cool, but I found it hard to believe that he would fall in, even for a bit, with these folks in such a short timeframe and give up all of what he has been doing (albeit just for a little while) considering all that has happened recently.

I also thought the ending was a bit predictable.

However none of those things really bothered me TOO much, just for some reason, this episode didn't move me very much. The one thing I DO wish we found out more about was who or what the hell were the hooded guys who never talked?!?!? My money was on older people who survived or something. Maybe they were just added there for mystery. Either way the thing I wondered most about the episode and was most interested in was them.

Sorry, but this one didn't do much for me. IMO Firewall blew it away. *shrug* You can't like every episode.

 

[Recoil]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsionTen:
<font color=yellow>The Roads. How in the hell can you have roads in that good of shape after 15 years of neglect? In real life, a road starts to break up after a couple of years. If you've even been to Indiana, New Orleans or Mississippi they have worse roads right now than you see in the series. The roads in Jeremiah should be nothing but rubble, cracks and potholes... oh well, just an observation.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

My guess regarding road conditions: There is no one driving on them to MAKE them turn to rubble anymore. Roads get bad, but only because there are thousands of people driving over them EVERY DAY. And even at that they last several years before getting really bad. Some of the best made roads in the country are in Colorado, because they make them out of the best type of asphalt. They survive the weather up there 100x better than roads here in Chicago. Wanna know why? Because the construction companies out here love re-paving one of our 6 major highways every 6-7 years. They always have work. Roads in Colorado and such aren't like that. In any case, the roads are still around because there isnt the traffic to make them bad, and the honest truth is that roads in areas with mountains are MADE better and to last as well. To me this seems to fit fine.

 

[PsionTen]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> The roads are bothering me too, but they're part of the few inconsistencies I'm allowing to wash over me in favor of the story. I'll let it slide, as long as the story continues...
<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, it's no biggie for me either, just something that I noticed. I'm really looking forward to your outlook on this episode, because I really do feel like its a better episode than Firewall. Once again, the subject of religion crops up into the series, which makes me wonder. Then again, I'd expect it to crop up fairly often if 6 billion people died in one fell swoop. Which brings me back to those children in Red Kiss and the whole thing about this massive battle in heaven.

 

[PsionTen]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>My guess regarding road conditions: There is no one driving on them to MAKE them turn to rubble anymore. Roads get bad, but only because there are thousands of people driving over them EVERY DAY. And even at that they last several years before getting really bad. Some of the best made roads in the country are in Colorado, because they make them out of the best type of asphalt. They survive the weather up there 100x better than roads here in Chicago. Wanna know why? Because the construction companies out here love re-paving one of our 6 major highways every 6-7 years. They always have work. Roads in Colorado and such aren't like that. In any case, the roads are still around because there isnt the traffic to make them bad, and the honest truth is that roads in areas with mountains are MADE better and to last as well. To me this seems to fit fine. <hr></blockquote>

Yes, I realize that there's hardly anyone driving on the roads any more, but we're talking about 15 years of weathering here... plus most roads were probably already in bad shape when the Big Death came. Then you have to think that there was some sort of panic going on that would have caused a surge in travelling... not to mention the fact that there most likely were a lot of kids driving around after the first few years before the gasoline started drying up. Nope, those roads should be virtually undriveable by now... or at least not in the pristene condition that you see in the series.

But I have to disagree with you about better roads in mountainous areas... if you've ever been east of the Mississippi, you'll find that those roads are in very bad shape -- especially in the rural areas. Where I used to live -- in the Smokey Mountains -- rock slides caused as much damage to roads as anything else. I actually believe that they don't make these roads to last very long. Why? Because if they did, then their funding would decrease and they certainly don't want that.

 

[Morden]

I agree with Recoil, because I really don't know what JMS or Psion Ten see in this episode. I'll admit it was better than most cult episodes I've seen, but I still don't like it, and "Firewall" definately blows this one away.
I really don't know what to think of the ending JMS gives us, either.

As for roads, I couldn't care less.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I liked the episode a lot when i thought i wouldnt at the start. Was it better then firewall? I dont think it was as firewall is a very very tough act to repeat. The episode though was pretty solid. MJW to me has become a very very good actor. He plays kurdy perfectly and when he speaks you just pay attention. As for the ending. I have a strong feeling that we will find out what happened to those people, or who those guys in the hoods were. I just know JMS will pull that out of his hat a few seasons down the road. I cant wait for next weeks return of Theo.

Capt

 

[Recoil]

By roads in mountain areas, I was actually referring to West of the Mississippi. I had it explained to me once, but they use a different kind of ashphalt there that is much, MUCH more weather resistant than elsewhere in the country. I'm sure there are some bad roads in the world, we just havent seen em yet. 15 years of weathering may cause some damage or cracks in the road, but I dont think its enough to reduce them to rubble. *shrug*

 

[gangster]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Recoil:
<font color=yellow>By roads in mountain areas, I was actually referring to West of the Mississippi. I had it explained to me once, but they use a different kind of ashphalt there that is much, MUCH more weather resistant than elsewhere in the country. I'm sure there are some bad roads in the world, we just havent seen em yet. 15 years of weathering may cause some damage or cracks in the road, but I dont think its enough to reduce them to rubble. *shrug*</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

One problem with untraveled roads, asphalt or concrete, is every crack soon fills with dirt, followed by grass & weeds growning, which catches more dirt so more grass & weeds grow and the road begins to disappear, albeit over many years. Also, winds begin filling in "cuts" with dirt, adding to the problem. Another problem with asphalt roads is ever crack expands every winter as water freezes and thaws. In addition, freezing and thawing begins breaking the asphalt loose from its sub-base. Thus, in 15 years most road would be in pretty bad shape, and all but impassible in some places.

Another small item I noticed was the good condition of the houses -- nice paint jobs, etc. After 15 years of little or no repairs, most would look like dumps.

 

[PsionTen]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> I liked the episode a lot when i thought i wouldnt at the start. Was it better then firewall? I dont think it was as firewall is a very very tough act to repeat. The episode though was pretty solid. MJW to me has become a very very good actor. He plays kurdy perfectly and when he speaks you just pay attention. As for the ending. I have a strong feeling that we will find out what happened to those people, or who those guys in the hoods were. I just know JMS will pull that out of his hat a few seasons down the road. I cant wait for next weeks return of Theo.
<hr></blockquote>

I think I feel the same way as you do... Firewall is part of the overall arc, but Journeys End (to me) stood on its own as a great episode. It's simply incredible to me that we're seeing shows this good in the first season.

As for Kurdy "joining" the cult, I think he said it best when he admitted that he was just looking to belong somewhere. I also think that chick had a lot to do with it as well. But Kurdy (as this show revealed) is a poet at heart. (which had me thinking about how G'Kar evolved from this cold-hearted warrior to a poet/writer of the first degree). In the end, however, I think that Kurdy remained true to himself when he left to go save Jeremiah --- BTW, that part where Jeremiah is all tied up and Kurdy busts in and starts pounding on these guys and Jeremiah goes, "Yeah man, kick his ass!" was just hillarious.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> Another small item I noticed was the good condition of the houses -- nice paint jobs, etc. After 15 years of little or no repairs, most would look like dumps. <hr></blockquote>

Yeah that was an eye-opener as well. To be honest, that neighborhood looked a lot better than some of the ones I've seen in my life. Nice to see that there's still a few cans of Sherman-Williams left after the Big Death.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I believe that those hooded fellows were the same ones that brought the body to Simon in "The Long Road." Very similar garb.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

When built carefully and traveled moderately, some roads can last thousands of years. We still have the Great Wall in China and several Roman trade & war roads in Europe. Asphalt lasts less than stone, but certainly longer than a while.

 

[channe]

This was singularly the best non-arc episode in the Jeremiah repertoire.

The one thing I really liked was the constant use of clothing symbolism. If you noticed Constance's costume, it was a dress very similar to something you might see at a Renaissance faire; and her name is more conservative, more medieval. Kurdy's gloves, as well, the shedding of violence and the realization of a poetic soul; and the gloves being put back on. Even Jeremiah's boots have a purpose; to illustrate the "good life" he has at Thunder Mountain, I think.

The photography was simply beautiful... simply beautiful.

I loved it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif While it wasn't arc, there was something in it that caught my eye. When they were talking about Noah, about someone to keep the world going... well, heh, could Jeremiah be the new Noah...?

 

[kin_of_zathras]

Speaking as a civil engineering student, what breaks up roads are the real big heavy trucks that go over them, small cars do basically nothing. Based on the importance of the road its designed for 5 to 10 million passes of a 100 kN AXLE(at least thats the way its done in south africa.
The design life of a major highway is about 30 years with regular maintenace.

 

[GKarsEye]

Finally got to see this episode last night.
*I love my digital recorder, la la la*

Half-way into the episode, I knew they were going to off themselves. The mighty GKarsEye knows a little too much about these types of groups...

Kurdy joining up with them didn't surprise me. He paired up with Jeremiah primarily because he was looking for a purpose and a place in life. Also, he never really believed what the cult believed. He just appreciated their sense of community and faith. Lost of people in enjoy attending religious services even if they don't believe in all of it.

It was so great when Kurdy turned on the guy when he realised he was weating Jeremiah's boots while the pussy-ass cult members gaped in horror. Freakin' A. Non-violence sucks. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

Lots of great dialogue in this episode, too. And the whole thing did look very nice.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah.. I liked this eposed. Even thou it was a bit to slow for me. I actually expected bodies lying around the beach when Kurdy came there, but there was none. Which felt good for two reasons.

First, now the ending is open, just like in K-Pax or in the eraly good episodes of X-files. You can make up your mind yourself. Personaly I have my little theory that those hooded guys called a navyship with some hidden walkitalkies and they all got onboard and left.

It also felt refreshing to see that just because they were religious they weren't suicidal nuts. That poor archtype starts to get really tiresome.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsionTen:
<font color=yellow>Once again, the subject of religion crops up into the series, which makes me wonder. Then again, I'd expect it to crop up fairly often if 6 billion people died in one fell swoop. Which brings me back to those children in Red Kiss and the whole thing about this massive battle in heaven.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

It seems to me as if JMS is working over the teodice problem in this series. "How can God be good if he allows such horrible things as the BigD to happen"

A good question. It is going to be interesting to see if Jeremiah comes to an answer. Right now he seems to be pretty much at the "fall out level".

We shall se.

/Com

 

[channe]

Com -

Jeremiah is definitely at that question, dealing with that question, and having quite a time of it, too.

It's one of the best questions out there...