Keffer

[hypatia]

Yes, I can still feel fear when I see Kosh strike certain poses. The performance is amazing if you think about what that actor is trying to work through to convey these mysterious characters.

IIRC John Hurt found the "Elephant Man" to be one of his most challenging roles for the exact same reasons. He was burried under so much make-up and costuming, he really had to work to make the character one that would come accross the way he wanted.

Heck, I even remember Levar Burton (Geordi from STNG) saying he'd never play another role that required him to cover up his eyes (like with a visor). IIRC, he said he had no idea how much it would make the part more difficult to convey emotions through. And he only had one little visor over his eyes.

I take my hat off to these guys. When it looks that good and you don't even really think about it, that's talent, man! /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[Droshalla]

here here.

Also, I've always though - from first watching the show - that the voice of Kosh was truly brilliant.

 

[Mondo Londo]

As long as we've veered onto Kosh (so to speak), here's something I've always wondered. It's obvious from the moment Kosh II comes on board that, at the very least, he has a different encounter suit from Kosh I. Perhaps Vorlons change suits every so often (the way we change cars), and perhaps this (changing suits) explains the voice change.

I also realize very few people ever saw either or both Koshes in the first place; and that even if they had, Vorlons remained particularly mysterious.

All of that said, how many people suspected there was a new Kosh -- besides those who knew for sure?

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
And he only had one little visor over his eyes.

[/quote]

A few years back Michael Caine taught a Master Class at the Actor's Studio in New York. It was videotaped and later televised on (I think) Bravo. At one point he got into the difference between stage and film acting (which also covers television, of course.) He illustrated the difference between the two by having a student deliver a startling piece of news. In the "stage" version (covered in a wide shot) he lifted his head. It looked fine. They then went to a close up and he did the same thing. It looked wildly exaggerated. Finally they repeated the scene, with a close up on Caine, head slightly down and eyes downcast. When the student delivered her line he simply raised his eyes to look at her and exactly conveyed his "character's" shock.

If you think about some of your favorite movie and TV scenes, I think you'll find a lot of acting is done with the eyes.

Andreas Katsulas has mentioned having to "unlearn" the same lesson to a degree when playing G'Kar, making the performance "bigger" and "stagier" in order to act out from under the costume and make-up. (Although in close ups his eyes convey all the emotion one could ask for. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif)

This is one of the reasons that SF series "aliens" are so Human (to the disgust of many sci-fi purists, the famous ST "funny forehead" syndrome.) In addition to the limitations of the Human anatomy, which make it hard to alter the basic upright bidped configuration, the actor has to be able to act and that means the eyes and certain facial areas have to be left clear. Otherwise you multiply the problems of creating a believable character - which is, after all, the point of the exercise.

Regards,

Joe

 

[A_Ranger]

Yikes, I'm away from the board for 2 days, there's an infinate amount of posts to muddle through /forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Anyway...what is there to say about Keffer? He was underused. He made an impact in Gropos, but ultimately I didn't care enough about the character when he bit the big one. In writing, sometimes you hit, and sometimes you miss. Keffer was just one of those foul balls.

As for Kosh's voice, damn that was cool. It wasn't enough that he had a deep, menacing tone, but he spoke in music as well /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Droshalla]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
It's obvious from the moment Kosh II comes on board that, at the very least, he has a different encounter suit from Kosh I. Perhaps Vorlons change suits every so often (the way we change cars), and perhaps this (changing suits) explains the voice change.

[/quote]

Not to mention that fact that these are two different beings we are talking about.

What I said before about the voice being different was not Kosh I sounding different to Kosh II, but Kosh II (or Ulkesh) in War Without End sounds different to Ulkesh when he comes aboard B5.

However, Ulkesh has a slightly different encounter suit from WWE than he has when he comes to B5. This, as you say, could explain why he sounds different.

 

[Valen2k1]

Good points re: the acting stuff. I guess it's easy to take for granted.

Though I think the "meaner" /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Kosh II is partially conveyed through the design of the encounter suit itself. Kosh I's is rounded, with smooth curves. Kosh II's has hard edges and it even looks like it has horns with those points at the top of the shoulder pieces.

 

[Droshalla]

yes, definately, and the heavy breathing too. Also, I noticed his "eye" (the circular port in the centre of the head piece) glows red, often ascociated with danger, wheras Kosh I glowed green in his "eye".

 

[GaribaldisHair]

I was always slightly intrigued (and slightly irritated) by the fact that (at the end of Interludes and Examinations) Delenn clearly states that the Vorlons do not want it to get out that Kosh has died, and will send a replacement as soon as possible.

The replacement duly arrives, having made zero effort to look and sound like the original, and everyone not in on the plan seems to just happily carry on without question!

Didn't anyone spot the difference ??????

/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Kosh II was met at the docking bay by Sheridan and Ivanova, who were in on the plot. After that, he almost never left his quarters (its a safe bet he didn't attend any council meetings) and was seen by almost nobody until he went to what should have been a deserted storage area to meet Lyta.

Besides, the Vorlons were arrogant bastards. They had already decided on a change of strategy in the war, which made the younger races largely irrelevant. Kosh II was there primarily as their eyes and ears in the area. They just expected the B5 staff to act like good little servants and accept what the Vorlons spoon-fed them, just as they had in the past. I'm sure it didn't even cross their devious little minds that anyone would tumble to the change, so they didn't bother trying to conceal it. If a Vorlon says he's Kosh, he's Kosh. Who are you to question?

(Besides, Vorlons must sometimes change encounter suits, if only out of boredom or to have them fixed - not to mention cleaned. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif Kosh I's must have been getting pretty ripe after over two years. Wonder if there was a dry cleaner on B5 who did that sort of work. Now there's a fan fic for you. The guy with the contract to do the laundry for EarthForce and the alien ambassadors, who would see the whole story in terms of the rips and stains he has to take care of. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif)

Regards,

Joe

 

[Droshalla]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
(its a safe bet he didn't attend any council meetings)

[/quote]

Actually, I saw him in the background in the war room during a full meeting of the league and co. in one of the episodes between Walkabout and Shadow Dancing. I forget which, sorry, because it was a few weeks ago that I watched that lot.

Anyway, the point is he wasn't seen around much, which is of course correct. Also, Kosh I wasn't seen much either, so many normal folk wouldn't have a point of comparison anyway.

Re: dry cleaners, I see a Crusade crossover - the guys could also go on the excaliur laundry room and do the whole "accident that destroys the ugly uniforms" thing. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

[GKarsEye]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Regarding Zach as the "everyman" character. Yea I think he was written well for that role, and Jeff Conaway did a great job with it. I think GKE posted this once here before, but I think one of the BEST "Zach" moments was actually in the TV Movie Thirdspace. When he was in the elevator trying to ask Lyta out, when she was in that trance. You couldnt help but cringe watching him do it and feel uncomfortable for the guy. Brilliant scene.


[/quote]

Yep, love that scene. It's rare to see a guy expressing his love for a woman and acting the way a normal guy would act: nervous, embarrassed, and stupid. Usually on TV and in movies, they're crashing weddings or driving sports cars or holding martinis or rescuing them from evil villains, and then they get on the cover of "romance" novels.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

Got to be a Vorlon and marry the cute red-headed teep ... lucky man.


[/quote]

Remember those scenes when Kosh would travel from his encounter suit into Lyta? This will make me look at it in a new way- the kind of way the mighty GKarsEye much appreciates (also accompanied by such wonderful dialogue as "That hurt" and "You pulled out of me too fast." Oh man, if I only had a dollar for every time... er, anyway).

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Heck, I even remember Levar Burton (Geordi from STNG) saying he'd never play another role that required him to cover up his eyes (like with a visor). IIRC, he said he had no idea how much it would make the part more difficult to convey emotions through. And he only had one little visor over his eyes.

[/quote]

Oh yeah, absolutely. Unless one is a method actor, how one peforms the role is basically a collection of a bunch of choices: move your head this way, curl you lip that way, etc. Most of those choices involve the eyes.

Much of credit for the successful effect of the Koshes is due to the other cast reacting to him as well.

 

[Loadhan]

Heh, that reminds of a discuss some friends and I had awhile ago ... what is the security clearance of the cleaning staff for such places like the Pentagon (the high security rooms) or Norad or top secret installations ... who cleans the labs at Grooms Lake? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif