Kosh and Song

[Alluveal]

I'm curious what people think about these passages spoken by Ambassador Kosh:

Talia seeks understanding, to which Kosh tells her "Then listen to the music, not the song.”

He later tells Sheridan (in the dream Sheridan had aboard the Streib Ship) "“I listened to the song. Your thoughts became the song.”

I'd love to hear what people think this means metaphorically and symbolically. =)

 

[Alluveal]

My first analysis is that he's telling Talia to stop listening to the song and hear only the music. He's telling a woman who is well-trained in the skill of mind-focus to pay more attention to the music than the words themselves. To stop thinking and analyzing.

Yet, he tells Sheridan that his "thoughts became the song" and that Kosh listened to it. Perhaps he meant that Sheridan's mind was becoming sharper? More focused?

thoughts?

 

[fisheggs]

I always figgured that JMS was comparing Mental to Musical Talent. Telepaths "hear" the whole and learn to focus on the specific in their training, ie searching for specific thoughts, not the entirety of a person and Vorlons tend to deal with a larger symphony, their ability to listen to and influence many minds at once, exhibited by Kosh's emergence to save Sheidan. That's for Talia. With Sheridan I felt it was foreshadowing Sheridans position as a Nexus. When he "sings", the universe tends to "sing along".

 

[puzzle]

I did wonder if Kosh took notice of Sheridan's thoughts because it found itself featured in his dream. It could be an ambiguous way of telling something like:

"You seem to have been thinking of future, and your thoughts included my role. I hope you don't mind if I pirated a copy and also thought about it."

Kosh is obviously a bad-ass music pirate, with no phear of RIAA or anything. It just has very odd taste, and considers other people's thoughts a form of audiovisual entertainment. I wonder if Sheridan's dream passed for a punk rock concert, opera or musical?

 

[Alluveal]

Wow, you guys have some amazing stuff here. and LMAO, puzzle! Some food for thought for sure.

Do you think it could also have to do with certain songs and how the artist may sing (lyrically) about one thing, but the tone of the music is really giving you another message. For example, a singer is singing about how he hates his ex-GF, but the music is very soft and loving, almost suggesting that he is still in love with her despite what he says in the lyrics.

 

[hypatia]

I'm curious what people think about these passages spoken by Ambassador Kosh:

Talia seeks understanding, to which Kosh tells her "Then listen to the music, not the song.”

He later tells Sheridan (in the dream Sheridan had aboard the Streib Ship) "“I listened to the song. Your thoughts became the song.”

I'd love to hear what people think this means metaphorically and symbolically. =)

I sometimes wonder if JMS really had anything specific in mind with many of his Vorlon lines.

"Then listen to the music, not the song.”

One guess: this is saying stop looking at the final result, look to the source instead.

“I listened to the song. Your thoughts became the song.”

Perhaps this is how Vorlons perceive language. Or thoughts.

Again, if they really mean anything specific at all, and were not just designed to sound cryptic and mysterious.

 

[vacantlook]

Perhaps this is how Vorlons perceive language. Or thoughts.

Well, some of the canon novels describe Kosh's ship as humming along to Kosh's song, or something close to that.

 

[RW7427]

And Dr. Jacobs said that Kosh's ship sang to him when he was inside it.

 

[hypatia]

I wonder what it was saying.

"Who is this jerk you so rudely stuffed into me?"

 

[vacantlook]

"Who is this jerk you so rudely stuffed into me?"

Well, the way that the ship is described in the books, if I remember it all correctly, it seemed to take pleasure in doing whatever Kosh told it to do regardless of if it understood what all was going on. That whole Vorlons and order thing.

 

[hypatia]

Ah, like a loyal dog. That makes sense. You wouldn't want a ship that wasn't delighted to follow your orders.

 

[KoshFan]

Yup, the ship was something of a pet. Ulkesh's was trying to go help when it broke loose from the station in "Falling Towards Apotheosis."

 

[RW7427]

I wonder what it was saying.

"Who is this jerk you so rudely stuffed into me?"

I wonder if a turkey on Thanksgiving would say something similar.

 

[Boxie]

This is such a cool topic!

I've always wondered if Kosh's focus on music had anything to do with the concept of "harmony". As everyone has mentioned, there were multiple times he suggested understanding through music. In addition to the references already noted, he also presented one of Sheridan's most powerful lessons through the beautiful voices of the monks...at least I think they were monks...suggesting again understanding and peace through music.

The first Kosh, while he could be tough, often chose a more harmonious approach, harmony seemed to be his focus...perhaps his "personality"...and the desired end result.


On the other hand...it could be a serious slant on the JMS's part that Kosh kind of looked like a juke box! In one of the commentaries, didn't Bruce refer to Kosh as Wurlitzer or a jukebox?? I think it was something like that!

 

[Alluveal]

Boxie, that is an interesting comment you made. I like the idea of harmony. You have the music AND the song and if they don't work together (or appear to) there is disharmony.

 

[hypatia]

Actually disharmony would be the music not being in harmony with itself. And just what does everyone mean by the "song" here?

The sum-total of the music? Are you considering the lyrics to be the "song"?

 

[RW7427]

Kosh? A jukebox?

 

[Jade Jaguar]

That's it! That's what Kosh always reminded me of, but I could never put my finger on it! He looked like a jukebox with a cloak on!

 

[Kraig]

A rare peek inside the suit from the link below.

Not really a spoiler.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

"Kosh" is Vorlon for Wurlitzer!