I recently re-watched The Gathering and the motive for assassinating Kosh is still as fuzzy as ever. I've read Marc Carlson's analysis and his proposed reason that G'Kar wanted to start a war between the Vorlons and the EA doesn't seem to hold water. I can understand the lesser motive of the renegade Minbari who wants to correct the humiliation of the warrior caste in surrendering to the EA. I just don't see how the Narns benefit from a war against Earth and risking the destruction of B5 by the Vorlons when Babylon 5 would be of stategic military intelligence to the Narns for their campaigns against the Centauri. It's not likely they would risk selling arms to earth in this hypothetical war like they did in the Earth-Minbari War. If G'Kar wanted to instigate a war it would be between the Vorlons and the Centauri and yet Londo is held up in the casino so he couldn't be implicated as the assassin. Very puzzling. What do you experts say?
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Kosh Assassination Plot
- Thread starter QMCO5
- Start date
B5_Obsessed
Regular
I think G'Kar was garnering favor with the Wind Swords, a powerful and disgruntled clan of Minbari warriors, in hopes of getting access to their technology and weapons which would be used against the Centauri.
At this point, the Narns were very aggressive and didn't have much of a plan beyond their need for revenge. Remember G'Kar's own word to Morden about what he would do after the destruction of the Centauri:
MORDEN: "What then...?"
G'KAR: "I don't know. I've never thought about anything else."
At this point, the Narns were very aggressive and didn't have much of a plan beyond their need for revenge. Remember G'Kar's own word to Morden about what he would do after the destruction of the Centauri:
MORDEN: "What then...?"
G'KAR: "I don't know. I've never thought about anything else."
I don't think you folks are hitting on all cylinders. There are only two alternatives for assassination motives: (1) Kosh is actually the target and then one has to examine the usual motives for attempted murder; or (2) the assailant is trying to incite the Vorlons, whether to destroy Babylon 5 or to declare war on the EA.
The second alternative is not without its problems. If you organize a conspiracy to accomplish a military goal, then you have to have some reasonable belief you can control most of the outcome. Deliberately picking a fight with the strongest power in the known universe (remember at this point only a few Minbari even know about the existence of the Shadows) is the height of stupidity. G'Kar may be driven by revenge but he isn't stupid.
Next, we wouldn't even know there was an assassination conspiracy if it hadn't been for Lyta's scan. The viewer is made to think as the plot develops that Sinclair was the target of a frameup, but if Lyta doesn't scan no one would know of a frameup. (This action was more likely just a backup plan for the assailant to avoid detection in case there was a telepathic scan, not because he expected a scan.) Moreover, as Dr. Kyle pointed out, the Vorlons seemed content to let Kosh die by ordering no recording and no opening the environmental suit. If Kosh dies, then, the whole notion of a conspiracy to incite a negative reaction by the Vorlons falls apart. So, unless you make Sinclair and/or Dr. Kyle part of the conspiracy (Sinclair ordered Kyle to open the environmental suit and Dr. Kylce came up with idea of the scan), there is no way for the conspiracy to succeed. And, Dr. Kyle's proposal for the scan was based on the fact that he got the green light from Sinclair to try to save Kosh's life. But, thanks to the scan the Vorlons do react and go ballistic.
G'Kar, of course, takes advantage of the whole situation for his own political and military ends, but I conclude he was not the leader of the conspiracy. While arguments from silence are problematic, my theory is that the Minbari assailant somehow learned of Kosh's involvement in advising Delenn at the Battle of the Line and in part blamed him, making the attempted murder much more personal. He obtained help from the Narns, but events took a different turn than he planned.
QMCO5
The second alternative is not without its problems. If you organize a conspiracy to accomplish a military goal, then you have to have some reasonable belief you can control most of the outcome. Deliberately picking a fight with the strongest power in the known universe (remember at this point only a few Minbari even know about the existence of the Shadows) is the height of stupidity. G'Kar may be driven by revenge but he isn't stupid.
Next, we wouldn't even know there was an assassination conspiracy if it hadn't been for Lyta's scan. The viewer is made to think as the plot develops that Sinclair was the target of a frameup, but if Lyta doesn't scan no one would know of a frameup. (This action was more likely just a backup plan for the assailant to avoid detection in case there was a telepathic scan, not because he expected a scan.) Moreover, as Dr. Kyle pointed out, the Vorlons seemed content to let Kosh die by ordering no recording and no opening the environmental suit. If Kosh dies, then, the whole notion of a conspiracy to incite a negative reaction by the Vorlons falls apart. So, unless you make Sinclair and/or Dr. Kyle part of the conspiracy (Sinclair ordered Kyle to open the environmental suit and Dr. Kylce came up with idea of the scan), there is no way for the conspiracy to succeed. And, Dr. Kyle's proposal for the scan was based on the fact that he got the green light from Sinclair to try to save Kosh's life. But, thanks to the scan the Vorlons do react and go ballistic.
G'Kar, of course, takes advantage of the whole situation for his own political and military ends, but I conclude he was not the leader of the conspiracy. While arguments from silence are problematic, my theory is that the Minbari assailant somehow learned of Kosh's involvement in advising Delenn at the Battle of the Line and in part blamed him, making the attempted murder much more personal. He obtained help from the Narns, but events took a different turn than he planned.
QMCO5
RW7427
Super Moderator
I think G'Kar would find a war with Earth Alliance against the Vorlons interesting and of benefit to Narn because if the humans were wiped out, there would be one less superpower in the galaxy. That would mean they would have a better chance of being a galaxy superpower themselves. They could ally themselves with the Vorlons, gain Vorlon tech, then use it against the Centauri. That would certainly help their chances for superpower status.
KoshFan
Regular
I think you're right, but the reason things went a bit badly is because G'Kar completely misread the Vorlons and their reactions. Because the Vorlons were willing to let Kosh die and simply wipe their hands of the matter, G'Kar's plans went a bit sour, and that's why his actions and motives are not entirely clear: he was changing the plan as he went along.
M
MOmega
Guest
I think G'Kar believed that war between EA a Vorlons will tie the Minbari and Narns into the new aliance. He wanted the new confrontation with the Centauri.
The problem is that G'Kar didn't know that Minbari can not stand against the Vorlons. I see Minbari like slaves of Vorlons, like Drakhs are slaves of Shadows.
The problem is that G'Kar didn't know that Minbari can not stand against the Vorlons. I see Minbari like slaves of Vorlons, like Drakhs are slaves of Shadows.
B5_Obsessed
Regular
QMC05, your question asked about G'Kar's motives, so I only responded in that area. G'Kar was obviously not the leader in the conspiracy, he just got wrapped up in it while trying to achieve his own ends. But G'Kar was a great facilitator. He had nothing personal against Sinclair, but was willing to prosecute him to please his Wind Sword accomplices.
DaRkEnEdStAr
Regular
maybe kosh assasinated himeself and pinned it on the narns ...
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Kosh (or a second Vorlon) as the organiser of the assassination is the option that makes the most sense. The Vorlons are moving the people around to see how they and the machines react. This would make it a military exercise.
The Vorlons would also get unshielded access to Lyta's mind. If the first Psi Corps book is to be believed the Alexander's family were chosen for the task.
The Vorlons would also get unshielded access to Lyta's mind. If the first Psi Corps book is to be believed the Alexander's family were chosen for the task.
DaRkEnEdStAr
Regular
DarkVorlon
Member
For Lorien sakes. What war????? Just a couple of Vorlon battle cruisers one of their planet killers and the entire human race is gone! and G'kar have some knowledge about this. No chance to sell anything so he have nothing to win.
The Battle cruiser of Walkers of Sigma 957 is incredible! isn't?
The Battle cruiser of Walkers of Sigma 957 is incredible! isn't?
From what I've read of the original pitch for the series, the Vorlons were meant to be a ruthless people who achieved career advancement by attrition. Perhaps he was meant to be assassinated by a cohort using alien means. After all, the Narn were originally portrayed as mercenaries.
Plus, certain Minbari would have liked to frame the humans. According to Delenn, most of them were ignorant of the true reason why the war was ended so abruptly.
Plus, certain Minbari would have liked to frame the humans. According to Delenn, most of them were ignorant of the true reason why the war was ended so abruptly.
KoshFan
Regular
True, you have to wonder... but he was probably thwacked pretty hard. The question is, since the Vorlons were able to get a fleet to B5, why couldn't they have sent a doctor?
Maybe the Vorlons are just so old that they don't get sick anymore, so this was kind of a new thing. Old thing, technically, but long forgotten.
Maybe the Vorlons are just so old that they don't get sick anymore, so this was kind of a new thing. Old thing, technically, but long forgotten.
He was at death's door.