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Latest From JMS
- Thread starter SammyJ
- Start date
Re: They guessed the acronym.
I agree with Recoil -- even though I posted "The Mark of Shadows", among other guesses, on rastb5m, I now like "The Memory of Shadows" because it could mean so many things. For instance, does it refer to OUR memory of the Shadow War, or could it instead refer to the Shadows' memory of us, or, in particular, what Sheridan did to their homeworld? Or, could it refer to someone whose mind has been altered by the Shadows, just as the Vorlons altered minds (including Sheridan, Lyta, and others).
Yep, ripe with possibilities...
I agree with Recoil -- even though I posted "The Mark of Shadows", among other guesses, on rastb5m, I now like "The Memory of Shadows" because it could mean so many things. For instance, does it refer to OUR memory of the Shadow War, or could it instead refer to the Shadows' memory of us, or, in particular, what Sheridan did to their homeworld? Or, could it refer to someone whose mind has been altered by the Shadows, just as the Vorlons altered minds (including Sheridan, Lyta, and others).
Yep, ripe with possibilities...
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: They guessed the acronym.
I agree. With the Drakh and other Shadow servants running amok in the galaxy with lots of Shadow technology, there's plenty of potential story available without the need to bring the Shadows back into the galaxy.
I agree. With the Drakh and other Shadow servants running amok in the galaxy with lots of Shadow technology, there's plenty of potential story available without the need to bring the Shadows back into the galaxy.
sleepy_shadow
Regular
Re: They guessed the acronym.
After all, they agreed to leave, and probably didn't sign on for any more nonsense with humanoids.
Revising a promise requires incentive. They had nothing to motivate them to revise. The game was over, there was no more challenge. The opponent had resigned -- even if the price was them resigning too. They would have found it boring.
To my understanding, they did not return. Not within B5 history anyway -- since no mention was made in "Deconstruction of Falling Stars", and Shadow activities would have probably deserved mention.
If they were many and traveled a lot... some inevitably passed by -- sooner or later. But unless something interesting had happened in the Milky Way... I doubt any stopped.
For that reason (if indeed the guess proves correct) I believe this "memory" would refer to things past. Plenty of choices.
I somehow think they would feel cheated too.
After all, they agreed to leave, and probably didn't sign on for any more nonsense with humanoids.Revising a promise requires incentive. They had nothing to motivate them to revise. The game was over, there was no more challenge. The opponent had resigned -- even if the price was them resigning too. They would have found it boring.
To my understanding, they did not return. Not within B5 history anyway -- since no mention was made in "Deconstruction of Falling Stars", and Shadow activities would have probably deserved mention.
If they were many and traveled a lot... some inevitably passed by -- sooner or later. But unless something interesting had happened in the Milky Way... I doubt any stopped.
For that reason (if indeed the guess proves correct) I believe this "memory" would refer to things past. Plenty of choices.
Re: They guessed the acronym.
Memory, Mark or Myth of Shadows could deal with Shadow tech left over. I wouldn't think it would actually involve the Shadows since we've already seen the only Shadow war in which humans were involved en mass. We nerds would love to see old Shadow wars but you need humans to appeal to the unwashed masses.
Memory, Mark or Myth of Shadows could deal with Shadow tech left over. I wouldn't think it would actually involve the Shadows since we've already seen the only Shadow war in which humans were involved en mass. We nerds would love to see old Shadow wars but you need humans to appeal to the unwashed masses.
Recoil
Regular
Re: They guessed the acronym.
Plus we B5 fans would also like to see SOME B5 characters. A story about the last Shadow War would have no one we know (with the possible exception of Sinclair/Valen). No humans + no familiar faces = probably not the story we are going to be treated with.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Re: They guessed the acronym.
"The Memory of Shadows" means that JMS can retell the Shadow War for the general public. He can them go on to show what happened afterwards including the Teep War. We have been promised things about the Vorlon home planet.
"The Memory of Shadows" means that JMS can retell the Shadow War for the general public. He can them go on to show what happened afterwards including the Teep War. We have been promised things about the Vorlon home planet.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Re: They guessed the acronym.
Before I read any of the speculation, my first thought, like a lot of people, was "The Meaning of Spoo."
Then I thought, The Movement of Shadows. After reading the list of possibilities, I would still put that up top, along with The Myth of Shadows, The Movement of Starlight, and The Murder of Shiv'kala. Also, I wouldn't put it past JMS to bend the truth a little, to limit speculation, so that maybe all the words are there, but not all together, in one guess. Also, I don't think that he would have to bring back the Shadows from beyond the rim, in order to use them. There could be a few hold-outs, or a few who didn't get the message, and therefore never left.
Before I read any of the speculation, my first thought, like a lot of people, was "The Meaning of Spoo."
Then I thought, The Movement of Shadows. After reading the list of possibilities, I would still put that up top, along with The Myth of Shadows, The Movement of Starlight, and The Murder of Shiv'kala. Also, I wouldn't put it past JMS to bend the truth a little, to limit speculation, so that maybe all the words are there, but not all together, in one guess. Also, I don't think that he would have to bring back the Shadows from beyond the rim, in order to use them. There could be a few hold-outs, or a few who didn't get the message, and therefore never left.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: They guessed the acronym.
Actually, he doesn't. He starts to say a word that may or may not be "dissected", then "catches" himself as Garibaldi moves to attack him. The word is almost certainly meant to be "dissected", but the devil is in the details, and if we're going to get nit-picky we should make sure that we're picking the right nits.
There is nothing wrong with such speculation at all since (a) Bester is a notorious liar and (b) Susan points out, in the same episode, that Bester probably only said that to get a reaction out of Garibaldi, and possibly read his unguarded surface thoughts. In other words, your "speculation" merely follows one of the two possibilities set forth on-screen, and the more likely of the two, at that.
What this has to your "speculating" about a word being in the new project's title that isn't on the list of titles that JMS says contains the right one is still a mystery to me. As Recoil said, apples and oranges.
Re: "The Myth of Shadows"
Don't forget, to the Earth Alliance under Clark the Shadow War was something of a non-event. It is mostly something they hear about after the fact from the IA, and that is bound to be a somewhat suspect source for many reasons. So for a post-2260 story, "The Myth of Shadows" could work well enough. Assuming that "T" is "The" - and I'm not sure we should - I'm inclined to think "The Memory of Shadows" is the "winner". It is cadenced, vaguely evocative, and would work well for any story dealing with the after-effects of the Shadow War - which could include both left-over Vorlon (teep) and Shadow (tech/drakh) influences. I don't see JMS retelling anything that has already been told in the books or the series, except in snippets in flashbacks to set up the main story. What would be the point? He did mention that the only way he could ever show the Vorlon homeworld would be in a feature film, because he'd need a feature film budget to do it justice. On TV it would just look cheesey. But that wasn't exactly a promise and he also said he could see doing it in a flashback about the origins of telepaths in a Teep War movie.
Regards,
Joe
Actually, he doesn't. He starts to say a word that may or may not be "dissected", then "catches" himself as Garibaldi moves to attack him. The word is almost certainly meant to be "dissected", but the devil is in the details, and if we're going to get nit-picky we should make sure that we're picking the right nits.
There is nothing wrong with such speculation at all since (a) Bester is a notorious liar and (b) Susan points out, in the same episode, that Bester probably only said that to get a reaction out of Garibaldi, and possibly read his unguarded surface thoughts. In other words, your "speculation" merely follows one of the two possibilities set forth on-screen, and the more likely of the two, at that.
What this has to your "speculating" about a word being in the new project's title that isn't on the list of titles that JMS says contains the right one is still a mystery to me. As Recoil said, apples and oranges.
Re: "The Myth of Shadows"
Don't forget, to the Earth Alliance under Clark the Shadow War was something of a non-event. It is mostly something they hear about after the fact from the IA, and that is bound to be a somewhat suspect source for many reasons. So for a post-2260 story, "The Myth of Shadows" could work well enough. Assuming that "T" is "The" - and I'm not sure we should - I'm inclined to think "The Memory of Shadows" is the "winner". It is cadenced, vaguely evocative, and would work well for any story dealing with the after-effects of the Shadow War - which could include both left-over Vorlon (teep) and Shadow (tech/drakh) influences. I don't see JMS retelling anything that has already been told in the books or the series, except in snippets in flashbacks to set up the main story. What would be the point? He did mention that the only way he could ever show the Vorlon homeworld would be in a feature film, because he'd need a feature film budget to do it justice. On TV it would just look cheesey. But that wasn't exactly a promise and he also said he could see doing it in a flashback about the origins of telepaths in a Teep War movie.
Regards,
Joe
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: They guessed the acronym.
It's about my right to speculate how I want to and not be attacked because my speculation doesn't conform to the way you two speculate.
It's about my right to speculate how I want to and not be attacked because my speculation doesn't conform to the way you two speculate.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Re: They guessed the acronym.
1) You were not "attacked" You were disagreed with. There is a difference.
2) In an earlier post you asked a question, "who's to say what's beyond the point." We answered it. "JMS" If you want to ignore what he says about the show he created, the universe he built around it and the script he is writing go for it - but don't pretend you are "speculating" about Babylon 5 because at that point you aren't.
This reminds me of the schoolyard. We're having a scavenger hunt. The rules say we must find objects that are blue or green. You come back with a handful of red berries and when challenged say, "This is how I play the game"
Point being, once you do that you are no longer playing the same game ("speculating") as the rest of us. By ignoring the parameters the rest of us are obeying, (the title is one of the ones listed on Usenet because JMS said so) you are now playing a different game not merely playing the same game "the way you like to."
And that is all I have to say on the subject. If you can't be swayed by reason I have nothing else to offer and won't comment further on this particular tempest or teapot.
Regards,
Joe
1) You were not "attacked" You were disagreed with. There is a difference.
2) In an earlier post you asked a question, "who's to say what's beyond the point." We answered it. "JMS" If you want to ignore what he says about the show he created, the universe he built around it and the script he is writing go for it - but don't pretend you are "speculating" about Babylon 5 because at that point you aren't.
This reminds me of the schoolyard. We're having a scavenger hunt. The rules say we must find objects that are blue or green. You come back with a handful of red berries and when challenged say, "This is how I play the game"
Point being, once you do that you are no longer playing the same game ("speculating") as the rest of us. By ignoring the parameters the rest of us are obeying, (the title is one of the ones listed on Usenet because JMS said so) you are now playing a different game not merely playing the same game "the way you like to."
And that is all I have to say on the subject. If you can't be swayed by reason I have nothing else to offer and won't comment further on this particular tempest or teapot.
Regards,
Joe
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: They guessed the acronym.
I take all movements to restrict my range of motion in any field, speculation in this instance, as attacks. There's a difference between someone saying, "I disagree considering jms has stated the title is in the list," and "But since they're not on the list the JMS has told us contains the correct title, that's rather beside the point, isn't it?" The former is polite; the latter is obnoxious and demeaning. The progression of the "discussion" on to my speculation being a waste of time was yet another step toward restricting my range of speculative movement.
I don't have a problem with you two speculating however you choose to do so, but I find it highly offensive when you two try to tell me how I'm supposed to speculate.
You could have been polite about my exploring off-list titles, or you could have chosen to skip right over my post and ignore it completely, but you didn't. You had to try to tighten the leash around my neck, and when I took offense to that, you just kept on becoming more and more condescending.
Hello Mr. Vorlon. I guess I need to die when you tell me to die now too. There is only order and obediance.
If you had wanted to do the reasonable thing, you would have let it go a long time ago, Joe. I did back when channe, moderator of this forum, skillfully directed the conversation in another direction. But you had to go and bring it back up.
I take all movements to restrict my range of motion in any field, speculation in this instance, as attacks. There's a difference between someone saying, "I disagree considering jms has stated the title is in the list," and "But since they're not on the list the JMS has told us contains the correct title, that's rather beside the point, isn't it?" The former is polite; the latter is obnoxious and demeaning. The progression of the "discussion" on to my speculation being a waste of time was yet another step toward restricting my range of speculative movement.
I don't have a problem with you two speculating however you choose to do so, but I find it highly offensive when you two try to tell me how I'm supposed to speculate.
You could have been polite about my exploring off-list titles, or you could have chosen to skip right over my post and ignore it completely, but you didn't. You had to try to tighten the leash around my neck, and when I took offense to that, you just kept on becoming more and more condescending.
Hello Mr. Vorlon. I guess I need to die when you tell me to die now too. There is only order and obediance.
If you had wanted to do the reasonable thing, you would have let it go a long time ago, Joe. I did back when channe, moderator of this forum, skillfully directed the conversation in another direction. But you had to go and bring it back up.
hypatia
Regular
Re: They guessed the acronym.
I hope it is "The Making of Spoo".
But wouldn't the entire audience go insane? Isn't there supposed to be some kind of mental effect from being exposed to the sighing of the spoo herds?
If I were to give any gentle advice to people going rabid over this: remember that JMS did this to tease his adoring fans. :devil:
Don't take it so seriously, folks.
If you are in good health, housed, employed, consider it a little detail that will eventually come out, when the powers that be see fit to let it out. (Unless the entire project just gets dropped for one reason or another. As much as I was looking forward to someone doing something with the Dragonriders of Pern series, I was much happier that the author backed out when the power that be tried to mess around too much with her vision. You have to respect an author who says NO to the big money when it corrupts her creation. There are damned few left these days in Hollywood, it seems.)
I hope it is "The Making of Spoo".
But wouldn't the entire audience go insane? Isn't there supposed to be some kind of mental effect from being exposed to the sighing of the spoo herds?
If I were to give any gentle advice to people going rabid over this: remember that JMS did this to tease his adoring fans. :devil:
Don't take it so seriously, folks.
If you are in good health, housed, employed, consider it a little detail that will eventually come out, when the powers that be see fit to let it out. (Unless the entire project just gets dropped for one reason or another. As much as I was looking forward to someone doing something with the Dragonriders of Pern series, I was much happier that the author backed out when the power that be tried to mess around too much with her vision. You have to respect an author who says NO to the big money when it corrupts her creation. There are damned few left these days in Hollywood, it seems.)
Flounder
Regular
Re: They guessed the acronym.
But Joe didn't flat out disagree with you. Your suggestions could work very well.
That depends on what you mean by "speculation". I think it means "what does JMS mean by a correct guess?". Many other titles could work, but it's JMS himself that restricted the speculation.
Titles not on the list means that JMS has misled us again. (And we just love him for it, right?)
Let's just be happy that something is happening.
EDIT: And I'm starting to warm up to Babylon 5: The Movie Script and Babylon 5: Theatrical Movie of Sorts
But Joe didn't flat out disagree with you. Your suggestions could work very well.
That depends on what you mean by "speculation". I think it means "what does JMS mean by a correct guess?". Many other titles could work, but it's JMS himself that restricted the speculation.
Titles not on the list means that JMS has misled us again. (And we just love him for it, right?)
Let's just be happy that something is happening.
EDIT: And I'm starting to warm up to Babylon 5: The Movie Script
and Babylon 5: Theatrical Movie of Sorts Re: They guessed the acronym.
I also have to go with "The Memory of Shadows" as the likeliest choice, and can still hope that it is a TeepWar epic. Remember that we don't know all of the influences that the Shadows had on PsiCorps, and it is entirely possible that the TeepWar was an outcome of the "memory" that the leaders of the PsiCorps had of the "good old days" when they had more power and influence based on their alliance with the Shadows.
Reaching? Maybe. But remember that the PsiCorps leadership had enough confidence in their powers to start the TeepWar, and that confidence may have come from something THEY had left over from the Shadows.
I can hope, anyway... even hope enough that this ties up the Lyta saga (and may include her and G'Kar getting whatever turned the TeepWar tide from the Vorlon Homeworld), becuase THAT would be a "dream given form."
I also have to go with "The Memory of Shadows" as the likeliest choice, and can still hope that it is a TeepWar epic. Remember that we don't know all of the influences that the Shadows had on PsiCorps, and it is entirely possible that the TeepWar was an outcome of the "memory" that the leaders of the PsiCorps had of the "good old days" when they had more power and influence based on their alliance with the Shadows.
Reaching? Maybe. But remember that the PsiCorps leadership had enough confidence in their powers to start the TeepWar, and that confidence may have come from something THEY had left over from the Shadows.
I can hope, anyway... even hope enough that this ties up the Lyta saga (and may include her and G'Kar getting whatever turned the TeepWar tide from the Vorlon Homeworld), becuase THAT would be a "dream given form."
