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Let the Voters Decide
- Thread starter QMCO5
- Start date
Sindatur
Regular
I think it was pretty much what she said it was, he "did the right thing in an inconvenient way"
She felt the need to restore the "Rule of Law".
If there would've been no consequences for Sheridan's side whatsoever, it could have mobilized Clarke's followers, likewise if she would've been too hard on Sheridan and his followers, it could also have sparked a civil war, as she would've looked like she was taking the side of Clarke's forces. She rewarded him in the only way she could (Pardoning his followers, and no legal reprecusssions for Sheridan)
She felt the need to restore the "Rule of Law".
If there would've been no consequences for Sheridan's side whatsoever, it could have mobilized Clarke's followers, likewise if she would've been too hard on Sheridan and his followers, it could also have sparked a civil war, as she would've looked like she was taking the side of Clarke's forces. She rewarded him in the only way she could (Pardoning his followers, and no legal reprecusssions for Sheridan)
PillowRock
Regular
Let's not forget that Sheridan was in command of a large force that was crewed, at least in a non-trivial part, by aliens and the Earth's defense grid had just been destroyed.
If for no other reason than for the psychology of a fair percentage of the population, Sheridan had to be convinced to go away and take that military force with him. It could too easily be perceived as an occupying force.
Luchenko could have broached that subject with him without immediately bringing the threats into it. However, I suspect that she was feeling a bit insecure in her position as the acting (at that point it could only have been acting, unless she was planning on straight out seizing power; there hadn't been time to reconstitute a permanent government yet) head of EarthGov. It would have been hard for her not to feel threatened, to some degree, from both sides.
If for no other reason than for the psychology of a fair percentage of the population, Sheridan had to be convinced to go away and take that military force with him. It could too easily be perceived as an occupying force.
Luchenko could have broached that subject with him without immediately bringing the threats into it. However, I suspect that she was feeling a bit insecure in her position as the acting (at that point it could only have been acting, unless she was planning on straight out seizing power; there hadn't been time to reconstitute a permanent government yet) head of EarthGov. It would have been hard for her not to feel threatened, to some degree, from both sides.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
From the way the General was acting I suspect that many of the people advising her thought of Sheridan as their prisoner rather than their new boss or the head of a fleet about to kill them.
Actually, I think you are on the right track. How about this twist: the people who advise/militarily support Luchenko fear Sheridan personally. Not because he was the head of the force that overthrew Clarke, but because they were actively trying to kill him a coupla days before, and they stood by and watched while they knew he was being tortured.
Luchenko would have been filled with anti-Sheridan horror stories by these people who "knew him" so as to ensure that she didn't support any of Sheridan's plans for revenge.
PillowRock
Regular
Well, he was most definitely *not* their new boss.
And he was their prisoner at that point in that they certainly had him physically, although that was only true because he had voluntarily come off of his ships and down to the planet.
However, treating him as a prisoner was something that it behooved them not to overplay too much. There was still a fleet nearby that was in the habit of thinking of him as their fleet commander, and which was at least the equal of anything that they could muster against it (at least in the short term).
Sheridan knew this, and knew that they knew it. And that is why he never acted like a prisoner, even when people were blustering at him as if he were.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
As part of my New Year's eve B5 marathon, I watched Rising Star, and Deconstruction of Falling Stars. We all seem to have forgotten the first news/interview segment in DoFS. It takes place in 2262, very shortly after Clarke's ouster. They clearly say it is an election year, and Luchenko will have to try for reelection. One commentator, who is a former Clarke speech writer, says she will have to answer for her pardoning of Sheridan in the election, and it may cost her the election. That would seem to settle the question about Luchenko's needing to be elected, or have the "voters decide," as in the title of the thread.
In Rising Star, Luchenko makes it clear to Sheridan that if he doesn't resign, she will have him courtmartialed, before a court of 'the half that wants you shot.' Remember the comment that half want to give him a medal, and half want him shot, so she considered doing both? It is clear that Luchenko DOES have to deal with various factions, and considers Sheridan a lightening rod, a source of disagreement. She clearly wants him out of there to quell dissent, try to stitch back together a democratic Earth Gov, and avoid a possible civil war that his presence might inspire, regardless of his wishes. Luchenko does wind up telling him he probably did the right thing. I think she is just doing what she feels necessary to re-unite a divided planet. But, I'll always love how she was upstaged by Delenn's announcement, and the roar of the White Star Fleet overhead!
In Rising Star, Luchenko makes it clear to Sheridan that if he doesn't resign, she will have him courtmartialed, before a court of 'the half that wants you shot.' Remember the comment that half want to give him a medal, and half want him shot, so she considered doing both? It is clear that Luchenko DOES have to deal with various factions, and considers Sheridan a lightening rod, a source of disagreement. She clearly wants him out of there to quell dissent, try to stitch back together a democratic Earth Gov, and avoid a possible civil war that his presence might inspire, regardless of his wishes. Luchenko does wind up telling him he probably did the right thing. I think she is just doing what she feels necessary to re-unite a divided planet. But, I'll always love how she was upstaged by Delenn's announcement, and the roar of the White Star Fleet overhead!
GKarsEye
Regular
As fun as that scene was, it always struck me as being supremely ridiculous (I just watched this a few days ago).
After a whole propoganda campaign on Earth portraying aliens and threatening and wanting to infiltrate humanity and destroy it and their government, here comes Sheridan wizzing in with alien ships and now is girlfriend flying in a bunch of freaky half-Minbari bad-ass spaceships on earth. That must of scared the living shit out of almost everyone on Earth. "They come in peace and will leave if asked" or whatever Delenn said is hardly enough to counter that menacing sight. If anything, it would only confirm the fears that the xenophobes (I'm guessing not a small minority) of Earth's population had.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
After the Earth-Minbari War many people on Earth did not believe that the humans had lost. There had been no damage to Earth so Minbari may have been say wiped out by gropos. The fly over demonstrated that Clarke's people had lost. Sheridan controlled Earth's capital. It had not been destroyed because Sheridan had used his power to decide not to destroy it.
GKarsEye
Regular
Ok, but it's still bad for public opinion.
The Earth civil war was, fundamentally, about how humanity saw itself in its place in the galaxy. Was it willing to take the leap into a bigger community or fold in on itself? Was it going to operate on fear or on hope? The opinions of about half the world's population were totally brainwashed and fear-mongered by people who knew how to play them. All I'm saying is that flying in alien ships on Earth's capital isn't going to make them feel better.
The Earth civil war was, fundamentally, about how humanity saw itself in its place in the galaxy. Was it willing to take the leap into a bigger community or fold in on itself? Was it going to operate on fear or on hope? The opinions of about half the world's population were totally brainwashed and fear-mongered by people who knew how to play them. All I'm saying is that flying in alien ships on Earth's capital isn't going to make them feel better.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
I agree with you that a good portion of the Earth's population had been brainwashed into xenophobia, but I can still understand why the show of force was necessary. It showed that Clarke was no longer in control, and showed Earth that there were other powers with superior force that had to be dealt with, thus making diplomacy seem better than hostility, at least for the moment. It was necessary to get their attention, and give them a good shake, demonstrating that the old ways no longer work.
2aMageing
Regular
I'd say that is pretty valid ..... I know if I had never scene a whitestar before, had heard nothing but Clark-isms on all channels including the vaulted ISN......and then a squad of these very "alien" looking ships fly low over all our heads......I would feel more than a bit concerned and kind of like feeling under siege......with these alien ships that had just overcome the best (supposedly) of our home planet's defense forces.
........Sheridan taking power would not be disimilar to the US taking over Iraq.......right down to the minority inciting majority opinion and fighting the new power via jungle warfare.......Sheridan would still be fighting his own people......provoked by pro-clark influences......
Wrong. ISN broadcast the liberation, in classy style (not unlike PBS) Aliens had just saved Earth. (Those pesky platforms ) Soon thereafter Aliens left. (remember, the White Stars were the best, definitely not the only ships in the IA fleet. Earth was not attacked in any way. The White Star flyover was kinda like the Rose Bowl Parade. Only after an interstellar war.
) Soon thereafter Aliens left. (remember, the White Stars were the best, definitely not the only ships in the IA fleet. Earth was not attacked in any way. The White Star flyover was kinda like the Rose Bowl Parade. Only after an interstellar war.
PillowRock
Regular
No, flying a small formation of 3 or 4 White Stars over is the Rose Bowl or Super Bowl fly-by for coolness.
Flying that whole fleet of them over is much more of a show of force than that.
2aMageing
Regular
If you were Sheridan......and had just been run out of town at esentially gun point...... would your fly over be a "rose bowl" celebratory fly over ........ or a point-making fly over.......I am reasonbly confident of the intent and it matches well with my impression as the moment elapsed.
What's a parade with only 3 or 4 floats? . Throw in a little bit of nostalgia for the russian consortium, May Day parades in the "old" russian consortium (USSR) mid 1960's/70's and Sheridan is just being respectful. And if someone misinterprets this gesture, (kinda like using meteors for target practice and honestly broadcasting that nothing happened in Sector...) and a desired result is achieved, well it's not his fault is it?
. Throw in a little bit of nostalgia for the russian consortium, May Day parades in the "old" russian consortium (USSR) mid 1960's/70's and Sheridan is just being respectful. And if someone misinterprets this gesture, (kinda like using meteors for target practice and honestly broadcasting that nothing happened in Sector...) and a desired result is achieved, well it's not his fault is it? Yes, but remember that the fly-over was not Sheridan's idea, but Delenn's (and Londo's and G'Kar's). Sheridan had been isolated by Luchenko and co to answer purely earth-related questions.
The fly-over was an announcement, in no uncertain terms, that "there was a new sheriff in town," that the earth administration could no longer hope to go back to the old ways of just being one powerful race in a disunited universe, able to play one race off against the other as they had in the Centauri-Narn war.
Remember that the people of earth knew nothing of the Shadow War and had no idea that an entity, capable of engaging the Shadows successfully, had been forged while earth was sidetracked by minor issues like the power of the President.
Earth's particiapation in the new Alliance was something that would have been "good" but it was even more important to send the message that earth was no longer powerful enough to have a significant independent voice. Earth was not able to arbitrate as it had in the past. The flyover was intended to humble the human leadership, and succeeded. It must have been hard for Luchenko and company to accept the new earth role, but she and her supporters could always point the doubters to the tapes of a massive Alliance fleet sending an unmistakable message.
The fly-over was an announcement, in no uncertain terms, that "there was a new sheriff in town," that the earth administration could no longer hope to go back to the old ways of just being one powerful race in a disunited universe, able to play one race off against the other as they had in the Centauri-Narn war.
Remember that the people of earth knew nothing of the Shadow War and had no idea that an entity, capable of engaging the Shadows successfully, had been forged while earth was sidetracked by minor issues like the power of the President.
Earth's particiapation in the new Alliance was something that would have been "good" but it was even more important to send the message that earth was no longer powerful enough to have a significant independent voice. Earth was not able to arbitrate as it had in the past. The flyover was intended to humble the human leadership, and succeeded. It must have been hard for Luchenko and company to accept the new earth role, but she and her supporters could always point the doubters to the tapes of a massive Alliance fleet sending an unmistakable message.