Lochley's Role SPOILER WARNING

GKarsEye · Oct 25, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by channe:
No prob, GKarsEye, that's what I meant.

Hmm - wonder if Martel will take the Gideon-role, then?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, see, that's what I meant. In a Rangers series, Gideon, the Excalibur, and the whole Crusade story would still happen. The way I see it, the events in Crusade do happen as they were meant to, we just don't get to see it (thank you very much, TNT

). The Rangers series might just tell us what happened as it relates to the Rangers story arc.

Martel can't take over the Gideon-role, because Gideon still has it.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

MOmega · Oct 25, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

I don't think that Gidoen would not die in the first episode of 2nd, but I think Lochley would be his temporary replacement.

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Galahad · Oct 25, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

Remember that jms had Vegas nuked when he got mugged there? Maybe he could write something similar for TNT!

Someone yonks ago suggested that Rangers might be used to kick-start Crusade. I personally hope that happens, and in doing so i hope that the network that shows it puts it against TNT's "finest" (sarcasm emphasised), and totally wipes the floor with it! Poetic justice!

Having said that, JMS seems to be going through an Arthurian phase. Crusade was compared to the Grail Quest in that the goal was merely the backcloth for all the adventures and plotlines the characters in each would go through. The Rangers are being compared to the Knights of Arthur themselves! This is not a bad thing for me, King Arthur stuff ROCKS completely!

I enjoy the classical romanticized version and the Stephen Lawhead take on the Arthur tale!

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"

KoshN · Oct 25, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Galahad:
Remember that jms had Vegas nuked when he got mugged there?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He had the nuking of San Diego mentioned in IIRC, Midnight on the Firing line, but I don't know if he got mugged in San Diego. Sinclair says the line to G'Kar.

Philip Hornsey <74053.2101@compuserve.com> asks:
> By flattening it?
> I take it we didn't like San Diego much?

From JMS News:

03/28/1996
No, I liked San Diego just fine. If I didn't like it, instead
of just nuking it I would've gotten nasty....

jms

03/08/1996
How big was the San Diego Nuke? Big enough, and dirty enough, to make the
area officially uninhabitable for a long time.

jms

12/17/1994
San Diego was nuked by terrorists some time earlier; but if you dig
deep enough, you could probably build something with enough money; and
who knows how bad it *really* is.

Ratings are very encouraging right now....

jms

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

bakana · Oct 25, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> but I don't know if he got mugged in San Diego. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, he did. Beaten unconscious from reports.

I believe it was Before Babylon 5, though, not during.

------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

Galahad · Oct 25, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

You guys are correct, I temporarily left my brain in cryonic suspension, it was San Diego not Vegas! Now you mention it it all slots back in, but I think that is the reason he wrote it that way in B5, or so I've heard!

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"

jgsugden · Oct 25, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

A couple 'corrections' ... the fate of the machine Marcus used on Ivanova was revealed in a short story in either the B5 magazine or Amazing Stories (I think it was revealed ... I'll look later.)

Lockley dies at some point. Why else wouldn't she be attending the final moments of Sheridan's life?

JMS said the Rangers series would tackle some of the issues that Crusade was meant to handle *if Crusade were not to return to the air*. The floor is still open for them to bring the series back in one form or another. Given the nature of Sci-fi I would expect them to open the door for at least a mini-series to open Crusade back up and wrap up some details (probably leaving more openings for Rangers to fill). The idea of Crusade returning to TV as a series is not out of the question, either ... though it gets both more likely (as B5 returns to TV through Rangers) and less likely (as time passes from the cancellation til now) at the same time.

Characters grow. And change. And develope. Galen could not heal in the books. There is no reason to believe he would not 'discover' how to do it in time to save Gideon. Or that he would be unable to take Gideon to the other technomages to be healed.

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The views expressed in this posting do not reflect in a mirror.

KoshN · Oct 25, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by jgsugden:
A couple 'corrections' ... the fate of the machine Marcus used on Ivanova was revealed in a short story in either the B5 magazine or Amazing Stories (I think it was revealed ... I'll look later.)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It wasn't revealed in the short stories.

The fates of Marcus and Ivanova were revealed in Space, Time, and the Incurable Romantic.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Lockley dies at some point.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We all do.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Why else wouldn't she be attending the final moments of Sheridan's life?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Real-Life Reason: Lochley was not part of the B5 story when SiL was filmed.

Story Reasons:
Well there could be lots of 'em.
1. Couldn't be reached (like Zack).
2. Died before Sheridan, for any number of reasons.
3. Medical reasons

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

GKarsEye · Oct 26, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

The point of Sheridan's little party in SiL was to gather the people that "made it all happen," transitioning the galaxy into a new age (basically, driving off the First Ones and such). aka, the Third Age of Mankind. It's also why Sheridan went back to B5 right before his death (after all, he was only there for four years. His homes on Earth or Minbar would have meant more to him personally.)

Lochley wasn't part of that. She was part of the "aftermath," the empire-building.

Or maybe she just died.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

hypatia · Oct 26, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by JMB1138:
Are these two scripts still available at bookface.com?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think that bookface.com exists anymore. One of the many businesses that were swept away by the collapsing internet market. It was a great site, too, it's a shame. I miss pets.com, too.

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

"I think I speak for Mr. Bloom and myself when I say: you are the only director in the World who can do justice to 'Springtime For Hitler' " - Zero Mostel, The Producers

bakana · Oct 26, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Are these two scripts still available at bookface.com?

I don't think that bookface.com exists anymore. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The scripts were pulled before Bookface.com went under, though.
Too many people abused the privlege of reading them, so JMS asked that they be taken off the site.

It was a large part of the reason for a long, acrimonious discussion of just what Copyright is all about on this very site.

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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

KoshN · Oct 26, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by bakana:
The scripts were pulled before Bookface.com went under, though.
Too many people abused the privlege of reading them, so JMS asked that they be taken off the site.

It was a large part of the reason for a long, acrimonious discussion of just what Copyright is all about on this very site.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wish JMS would offer them for sale, preferably autographed, but he probably thinks that would diminish the chances of those episodes ever getting filmed, and Crusade ever being resurrected.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

bakana · Oct 26, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I wish JMS would offer them for sale, preferably autographed, but he probably thinks that would diminish the chances of those episodes ever getting filmed, and Crusade ever being resurrected.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More likely, he's afraid some Dealer would end up with them and start selling copies with the signature forged.
Such stuff has happened with depressing regularity, not just with Babylon 5 stuff, but with any SF related merchandise that becomes popular.

A couple of prominent artists had an entire Shipment of artwork that was on the way to a Worldcon stolen a few years ago. So far as I know, it was never recovered.

OTOH, A dealer in rare Books whose store was close to a convention center had a couple valuable books stolen from his store.
Police went to the convention and found them on a Dealer's table.

Over the last several years, the FBI has actuallly shut Down a couple convention Dealer's Rooms because of counterfiet merchandise.
They were tipped off by the attendees who were Friends of the people being ripped off.

------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

KoshN · Oct 26, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by bakana:
More likely, he's afraid some Dealer would end up with them and start selling copies with the signature forged.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's the difference between that and the copy of The Coming Of Shadows that I bought from the fan club (when it was still up), that he sent to me autographed?

I guess you're saying there'd be a bigger demand (and hence a greater temptation for forgery) for To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line, because of their rarity and the fact that they haven't been filmed?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Over the last several years, the FBI has actuallly shut Down a couple convention Dealer's Rooms because of counterfiet merchandise.
They were tipped off by the attendees who were Friends of the people being ripped off.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GOOD!

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

Deviot · Oct 27, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Derian:
It will be interesting to see what, if anything, Galen is able to do about it. Unless Jeanne pulls something out in Book III of the technomage trilogy, we know that Galen's healing magic flat out sucks.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe in teh time between the books and Crusade he learn't how to heal.

Spoilers below that tie in Crusade, unfilmed scripts and Technomage books

1

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1

1

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Remeber in the books Galen really really wanted to be able to make great sheilds(personal body sheilds etc) and he just could't make them..or could but they were extreemly weak...thats How Isabelle died remeber she used her own sheild to sheild Galen instead of herself...because galen couldnl't make one.

But then in Crusade we see that Galen has learn't to make sheilds..we see this in the episode when he They go to the planet where the old technomage made the nano probe virus thingy..And we woulda also seen a galen sheild in one of the unfilmed scripts although that sheild woulda been a different one I beleive more like the skin of a Shadow vessel.

Before Isabelle died she gave all her note's, research and spells to Galen including her Sheild spells which were her specialty. Galen also recived all of Isabelle's mothers research, spells etc as well.

I'm sure he learn't much from 2 technomage's life's work.

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Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au

Quagmire · Oct 27, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

JMS wasn't beaten unconcious. He draged himself to safety similar to what Stephen did. I remember him saying something about he had too many stories left to tell to let himself die.

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"This so-called new religion is nothing but a pack of weird rituals and chants designed to take away the money of fools. Let us say the Lord's Prayer forty times, but first, let's pass the collection plate."-Rev. Lovejoy in The Joy of Sect

KoshN · Oct 27, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Deviot:
Maybe in teh time between the books and Crusade he learn't how to heal.

Spoilers below that tie in Crusade, unfilmed scripts and Technomage books

1

1

1

1

1

1

1

Remeber in the books Galen really really wanted to be able to make great sheilds(personal body sheilds etc) and he just could't make them..or could but they were extreemly weak...thats How Isabelle died remeber she used her own sheild to sheild Galen instead of herself...because galen couldnl't make one.

But then in Crusade we see that Galen has learn't to make sheilds..we see this in the episode when he They go to the planet where the old technomage made the nano probe virus thingy..And we woulda also seen a galen sheild in one of the unfilmed scripts although that sheild woulda been a different one I beleive more like the skin of a Shadow vessel.

Before Isabelle died she gave all her note's, research and spells to Galen including her Sheild spells which were her specialty. Galen also recived all of Isabelle's mothers research, spells etc as well.

I'm sure he learn't much from 2 technomage's life's work.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Plus who knows how many he's been able to reduce to single term spells (spells of his own, and spells of Isabelle and her mother, Burell). Perhaps it will be revealed in Book 3.

You know what's neat? Go re-watch Crusade knowing some of the spells Galen has access to, e.g.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black>Spoiler:</td></tr><tr><td>The Spell of Destruction</td></tr></table>

. Nobody on Excalibur knows he has this kind of power.

Channe, you really need to read the books. You're going to LOVE 'em.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

channe · Oct 27, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

Heh, heh!

I will, KoshN, as soon as semester break comes and I'm not so destitute as I am now so I can actually get my hands on the books.

Can't wait! They sound so INTERESTING.

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Channe, the next JMS, who lives for the One and dies for the chocolate cheesecake
--
OnlineDude: I suppose now would not be the time to bring up the old one about the starlet who was so new to Hollywood she slept with the writer...
JMS: But that was only because she heard that in Hollywood, *everyone* screws the writer.

Zoriah · Oct 27, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

In the final Crusade script, did it specify who if anyone was hit?

I was under the impression Gideon was the target but that at the last second we have Galen jumping for him, and possibly others standing nearby.

What if Galen were hit and badly wounded?

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Demon · Oct 27, 2001

Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

It was pretty specific. It ends with the sniper-scope pointing directly at Gideon’s chest, then the sniper’s finger pulling the trigger.

The camera was then to move to Gideon's face, turning back into the camera as the sound of the gun firing is heard.

The script went on to say that there would be the feel of impact in the look on Gideon's face and he would fall back slowly. Then fade to black as he strikes the pavement.

I think it was likely that he was shot

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Demon

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Lochley's Role SPOILER WARNING