Marcus???

[RW7427]

I'm sure Jason would be thrilled to get the chance to do an episode of TLT, since he isn't do much acting these days. But why do you think it would be odd without Claudia? Marcus was a legitimate character in his own right, distinct from storylines that intersected with Ivanova. How about seeing him during his Ranger training days? That would even give Michael O'Hare a chance to come back, too. And, no Ivanova necessary (or possible, in fact).

Amy

Well said, Amy. Marcus doesn't need Ivanova to be cool. I agree that he's a great character in his own right, and that it would be interesting to see a little more of what he's like.

 

[Chilli]

I think it's mostly the men who have such a huge problem with the character Byron.

That does NOT line up with my personal experiences.

I think the sad truth is that most of us just can't relate to someone making such a major change that he'd risk his own life to try to find a better option for his people. Of course he was out to help his people, and his people only. What do you expect?

He is the kind of guy, though, that will end up hurting a cause he pledges himself to, through his irrational zeal.

Byron was angry. He had every right to be angry. He had every right to live out his anger. But he was so blinded by his anger, he couldn't figure out WHERE to direct it.

So what do we get? Him giving atittude to alien worlds, the Interstellar Alliance, and Sheridan. The Interstellar Aliance, which had recently forced Earth to grant Mars independence, and had given every indication to be willing to force ethics down its members throats when need be. Sheridan, who had just weeks earlier personally taken out a dictatorship largely ruled by Byron's mortal enemy. Who had given him the chance to establish a colony. Alien races who ALL deal with telepaths in vastly better ways than Earth does.

Valuable potential allies for his cause. So what does he do? Reason with them? Try to get them over to their side? No, as he's too busy being a whiny little bitch, boo hoo. And he's also angry. ANGRY ANGRY ANGRY ANGRY. Like a child that was abused that grows up to see the whole world responsible for its pain, when its pain was caused quite specifically by a single person.

It's understandable behaviour, really, as abuse does not leave people rational. But when someone like this becomes a representative of any sort for a group of people, it's bad, bad news.

Oh, and while alienating vast numbers of people - on screen, and in front of TV sets - goes around pretending to be all about "love" - which he obviously is NOT. Which makes him, aside from a whiny little bitch that is counterproductive to his cause, a bloody hypocrite.

I don't see what ANY of this has to do with my gender

 

[Crusader]

Well said, Amy. Marcus doesn't need Ivanova to be cool. I agree that he's a great character in his own right, and that it would be interesting to see a little more of what he's like.

It wasnt that he needed her to be cool. I agree there could be some very good stories with his adevntures inside the Anla'Shok. However the point i was making is that i would consider it slightly strange where marcus to re-emmerge in the B5 universe, with no ivanova given that he "gave up his life" to save her. If she wasnt in it with Marcus, which given Cakudia's outward hostility towards JMS seems likely, then atleast a mention of ivanova would be needed IMO.

 

[RW7427]

Well, it could be that Ivanova was so married to her career that being with a man wasn't really on her mind. Since she left B5 to be captain of one of those Warlock class cruisers it could be that her "one year shakedown cruise" as that ISN reporter called it turned into a more permanent job.

Besides if we see a TLT type story with Marcus in it, if it takes place after B5 chronicologically, someone would have had to find a way to bring him back from the dead.

 

[Jan]

Besides if we see a TLT type story with Marcus in it, if it takes place after B5 chronicologically, someone would have had to find a way to bring him back from the dead.

No, that story was already written by JMS. It'd have to be before he died for Ivanova.

Jan

 

[A_M_Swallow]

Or locate the story on Marcus and Ivanova's desert island err uninhabited planet.

 

[AnlaShokGrey]

It wasnt that he needed her to be cool. I agree there could be some very good stories with his adevntures inside the Anla'Shok. However the point i was making is that i would consider it slightly strange where marcus to re-emmerge in the B5 universe, with no ivanova given that he "gave up his life" to save her. If she wasnt in it with Marcus, which given Cakudia's outward hostility towards JMS seems likely, then atleast a mention of ivanova would be needed IMO.

But...but...

But if Marcus were in a Lost Tale, it would be something that happened before his death. So he wouldn't actually have given up his life for Ivanova. Yet.

I guess my point was that so many people out there in B5 fandom see them as a unit: Marcus/Ivanova, the romantic icon, an excuse for fanfic. To me, that 'romance' (if you can call it that) was a very minor part of their story.

Amy

 

[RW7427]

Maybe they could do a story of how Marcus joined the Rangers and of the Shadow attack that killed his brother.

 

[KoshN]

Maybe they could do a story of how Marcus joined the Rangers and of the Shadow attack that killed his brother.

That'd be my choice.

 

[Sindatur]

I'd actually like to see Valen finding Sakai

 

[RW7427]

I'd actually like to see Valen finding Sakai

That would be cool. I always wondered how that would go.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Hey Jeff, like the new look ... but what the hell happened to your hair?

 

[Lousy_Dodgers]

Or she might say "This time you not only left, you went back in time!" [in reference to their argument about who left last time in Parliament of Dreams]

 

[vacantlook]

Or she might say "This time you not only left, you went back in time!" [in reference to their argument about who left last time in Parliament of Dreams]

Of course, she left first this time too, being that...

Spoiler for To Dream In The City Of Sorrows:

...she disappeared in the time rift some time before Sinclair went back in time and became Valen.

 

[dregj]

They'd have to recast since o hare is now dead
probably marcus aswell
i think having jason cole in a prequel would be a non starter
he looks his age now alas

 

[Looney]

Since this is the largest Marcus Cole thread can I suggest renaming it Marcus Cole with no question marks and merging The Marcus Cole thread and the other smaller Marcus, from Babylon 5, related threads into this one?

Okay I just need to say the above because I recently had a personal Marcus epiphany and I wanted to share it. I searched and came up with a host of "Marcus" related threads and couldn't decide which one to put it in. This being the longest "Marcus from Babylon 5" thread I chose it.

I was recently chatting with Shan'waia over on JMS News, I think she is registered here but hasn't posted yet. We were both at the 20TH Anniversary Celebration at Space City Con in Galveston, TX in 2014. She was dressed as a Ranger. We discussed how she felt her Ranger attire was lacking. I disagreed because I think it seems obvious that not every Ranger uniform is exactly the same. There are clearly general themes and guidelines, but not all of the patterns and colors are, for lack of a better term, uniform. So for some reason this conversation triggered me thinking about Marcus in a different way than I ever had before.

I will say straight out that, in the past, I always thought Marcus was one of the poorest constructed characters in the B5 Universe. He always gave me this inconsistent vibe; one minute he is the deeply serious and brooding tragic romantic hero and the next the dancing clown. This coupled with an idea in my head that the Rangers were akin to Jedi or Ninjas or whatever I feel may have given me a false impression of Marcus.

(SIDE NOTE: This is my first big post. If you have evidence to the contrary; or think I am wrong; or think I am just plain crazy please let me know. I am here to discuss. This isn't about me trying to tell YOU what to think about Babylon 5. I don't know everything about Babylon 5. I don't think I want to know EVERYTHING about Babylon 5 and the personal lives of those whom created it. When something seems interesting or I am questioning something I talk about it. Sometimes I already know the answer to a question I ask, but that doesn't mean I don't want to hear what others have to say on the topic, nor does that mean I know my answer is right. I just want to talk about it. And yes, things I talk about often have little real substance or meaning. They are often speculation, opinion, and flat out very boring to read - like the last several sentences you just read.)

So after putting out that long disclaimer for everyone to consider in the future when they see a post with the ID Looney above it, I will say that I am now thinking about Marcus in terms of a spy movie. I am thinking about Marcus in terms of an infiltrator, a chameleon, and a hub of information. I am thinking of him has the Minbari equivalent of someone in the CIA. I am now thinking of Marcus as someone who has to blend in, keep lines of communication flowing, and REALLY be able to defend himself if it comes down to it. I am looking at him in a whole new light because I stopped thinking about all Rangers being 'uniform'. The roller coaster from one end of the spectrum to the other that I used to see seems to fit so much better in this new schism.

Having said this I think we can all agree that much of the way the show presented the Rangers, especially from the Minbari perspective, was like Ninjas, Jedi, or whatever. Once you put them into the context of some of the jobs they were doing in the show, like everything Marcus has going on, one can come to the conclusion that the training is training and the job might be something completely different.

SO LONG STORY VERY LONG, I have come to see the character of Marcus Cole in a completely different light. Yes I might be late to the table on this one, but I hope I still get to eat. :drool: (That one is weird even for me.) :guffaw:

 

[hypatia]

Hi there, Looney. Those are some interesting thoughts on Marcus Cole. :bolian:

Rangers kind of struck me as being undercover ops, yes. And they are the intelligence network for our "good guys", so I'd say your observations are spot-on.

One thing I'd add, however is: always remember that characters in B5 are not necessarily the epitome of perfection types. I see Marcus as a trained and excellent Ranger, but a flawed and in many ways broken man. So inconsistencies could be considered from a perspective of how close or far from his ideal he is behaving. He was a very conflicted man, I would imagine this would lead to a very conflicted Ranger. But he always knew what action was required to get the result he wanted. So, if he was a clown, it was the Shakespearean type. Where the Clown is the smartest guy in the room.

 

[Looney]

One thing I'd add, however is: always remember that characters in B5 are not necessarily the epitome of perfection types. I see Marcus as a trained and excellent Ranger, but a flawed and in many ways broken man. So inconsistencies could be considered from a perspective of how close or far from his ideal he is behaving. He was a very conflicted man, I would imagine this would lead to a very conflicted Ranger. But he always knew what action was required to get the result he wanted. So, if he was a clown, it was the Shakespearean type. Where the Clown is the smartest guy in the room.

Oh I completely agree with that assessment. :thumbsup:

 

[Looney]

SO what is the criteria on posts like the one above? Do we just report them and say they are spam? Do we need to report every post to have them removed from my sight? :scream: I mean this person actually made half an effort in the Game of Thrones thread, but it still all looks like spam to me.

 

[Kraig]

SO what is the criteria on posts like the one above? Do we just report them and say they are spam? Do we need to report every post to have them removed from my sight? :scream: I mean this person actually made half an effort in the Game of Thrones thread, but it still all looks like spam to me.

Just hit the Report post sign and report as spam. You can see he as made an identical word for word post in another thread.