Mindwalker and Evolution

[Alluveal]

I'm going through season 1 again and I just finished Mindwalker. When Ironheart transforms at the end, do you think he evolved as the humans did in Intersections of Real Time - when the human race evolved into something similar to the Vorlons?

Just curious what some of you think.

 

[maneth]

Yes, I think he led and Sheridan followed. Although it wasn't evolution, but rather an effect of genetic manipulation, and in Sheridan's case a consequence of dying and being resurrected.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

When Ironheart transforms at the end, do you think he evolved as the humans did in Intersections of Real Time - when the human race evolved into something similar to the Vorlons?

I don't think we know for certain, but that seems likely. I think evolution is as good a term as any, since he continues to change after any genetic manipulation. One might call it 'kick-started' evolution.

I think what became of Sheridan was rather different. Lorien said Sheridan would just quit. So, I don't think that Sheridan became as a first one. As I said in a thread on the subject, I believe that Lorien came back from beyond the rim, and took Sheridan into himself, to maintain Sheridan's existence, as an individual consciousness. A bit like when Kosh breaks of a piece of himself, and puts it in someone.

 

[KoshFan]

Technically the episode is "Mind War."

 

[Alluveal]

Dangit. That's what I get for watching Mindwar and then a few eps later, Deathwalker.

Durhh.

 

[vacantlook]

Dangit. That's what I get for watching Mindwar and then a few eps later, Deathwalker.

Durhh.

Plus there's "Mind War" being a telepath episode and "mindwalkers" being an ancient Narn name for telepaths.

 

[Alluveal]

Ohhhhhhhhh, I had forgotten that about the term "mindwalker."

I blame the Shadows.

 

[GKarsEye]

I don't think Sheridan did anything but just die. Lorien just showed up to make it easier for him, since he's the one that healed him in that particular way that led to that specific type of death.

 

[mattikake]

^ If Sheridan just died, why include a section that implies he physically diappeared with no evidence to say that someone stole his body - sealed airlocks?

Valen probably went the same way as Sheridan too, implicated in many ways, such as in this episode when Ironheart says he will see Sinclair again in a million years and Valen's strange disappearance in Minbari records...

What is the goal of evolution? What is the ultimate answer of the mathematics contained in your genes? If consciousness is a goal, not a fluke or side-effect, then the your body exists just so your mind can experience and the ultimate end must be to escape your mortal physical mass and become ever self-replicating energy. I like JMS's idea. Fits well with a lot of other educated dreamers.

 

[Elenopa]

What is the ultimate answer of the mathematics contained in your genes?

42

Couldn't resist

 

[GKarsEye]

If Sheridan just died, why include a section that implies he physically diappeared with no evidence to say that someone stole his body - sealed airlocks?

A missing body does not mean he instantaneously evolved a million years. It's more likely just a consequence of the unique type of death he suffered.

 

[mattikake]

Now that's just not in the spirit of B5! There's far too many implications that something more happened than just an evaporative death. That's part parcel of creating legends/myths/deities, just as the Valen story.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

A missing body does not mean he instantaneously evolved a million years. It's more likely just a consequence of the unique type of death he suffered.

I don't think that is a good explanation either. That's why I think the explanation I posted above is the most likely:

I don't think that Sheridan became as a first one. As I said in a thread on the subject, I believe that Lorien came back from beyond the rim, and took Sheridan into himself, to maintain Sheridan's existence, as an individual consciousness. A bit like when Kosh breaks of a piece of himself, and puts it in someone.

 

[Alluveal]

Well, I always saw Sheridan's disappearance as meaning he would appear again in the future sometime. Sinclair was "the one who was." Delenn was the "one who is." And Sheridan was the "one who will be."

Now, I know Sheridan was key in the Shadow War, but so was Delenn. It could be argued that The Shadow War was her task (in a sense,) and that Sheridan's heroic journey will occur sometime in the future, when the Universe needs him.

Stretching a bit? Probably, but that is always how I have seen it.

Or, maybe he's just the final cylon.

 

[Galahad]

I once wondered if the guy whose avatar I have stolen, was Sheridan in another body.

I think we were given hints about Sheridan in "The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari". Of course that could all have been Londo's subconscious, but I think there was more to it.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

After being president Sheridan becomes the head of the Rangers. You appoint a warrior when you expect to fight a war.

The One(s)

Valen - previous Shadow War
Sinclair - mobilize for last Shadow War
Delenn - fights last Shadow War
Sheridan - ???

 

[Telepath]

The way I see it, the One who was, is, and will be, refers to the role Sinclair, Delenn, and Sheridan have in the ejection of the First Ones from the galaxy and the formation of a new order. Sinclair laid the foundation by defeating the Shadows in the first war and introducing human candidates into the order of the rangers, Delenn fought the Shadow War, Sheridan creates a new order of peace. The latter two include both Delenn and Sheridan, but the way I see it, Delenn is more important during the war, while Sheridan may have had a greater effect after the First Ones were gone.

 

[BYEVJZTS]

do you think he evolved as the humans did in Intersections of Real Time - when the human race evolved into something similar to the Vorlons?

I know we've gone past the point now but wasn't that episode Deconstruction of falling stars? Intersections in Real Time is the ep with the harsh interrogrations of someone (not spoiling it for anyone still watching) divided into segments that coincide with when adverts were broadcast.

Hope that makes sense LOL

 

[vacantlook]

You've got it right, BYEVJZTS.

 

[mattikake]

According to the DVD commentaries and interviews, I think you have to take the view that when JMS explains something in B5 through one of his characters, he intends to tell the truth and not to add more fuel to personal interpretations.

I.E Justin tells 100% truth. So does Lorien. Interpretation of Sheridan's and Londo's dreams are as intended when analysed in the series etc. etc.

'The one' is a Minbari/Human story, not a larger Shadow war/B5 story. So 'the one' is only refering to Ranger One. So at the time of Zathras' (JMS's) explanation, you can say that Sinclair/Valen is one who was. Delenn is the one who now is when Sinclair/Valen departs. Sheridan is the one who will be by the time you see SiL.

Also you then know that Valen will return one day, a million years after Mindwar. If anything the guy in DOFS is Valen/Sinclair not Sheridan. JMS left no direct indication that Sheridan will return at all and deliberately left that arc open.