Mongoose Books - JMS replies

[AnlaShokGrey]

JMS just posted a reply about the Mongoose Books situation on the moderated newsgroup:

Subject: Re: ATTN JMS - Mongoose Books?
From: jmsatb5@aol.com
Date: Today 11:12 PM
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated

Joseph DeMartino wrote:
> There is news up at the Mongoose publishing site that has generated
> some discussion in fan circles - to say the least. Naturally this
> happened just when the newsgroup went pear-shaped and it became
> impossible to ask you about it or see anything you might have posted on
> the subject yourself.
>
> Given the controversy earlier this year on this newsgroup, there is a
> lot of skepticism on the 'net about this announcement, especially given
> that the newsgroup, your main means of publicly communicating with your
> fans, was effectively down.
>
> Can you, or will you, offer any coment?
>

I've tried several times to reply, but each time the server ate it,
let's see if this one gets through.

To recap...after making a number of rather controversial statements
about my involvement, which were not accurate, there were several
emails exchanged which resulted finally in my agreeing to give Mongoose
a second chance. The main concerns were that a) information given to
the fans should be accurate, b) the books should be canonical, and c)
the level of writing on the books had to be consistent with what's gone
before. To be fair they said they would work within the guidelines
they were given.

I made it very clear that I did not want any money off the deal, no
fees for myself, the purpose was to ensure the quality of the books.

The manuscripts came in on the books currently in progress, and
unfortunately the level of writing is at very best amateurish, on a
level somewhat below what one would find on the average fan-fiction
website. In some cases the manuscripts had net handles not even actual
names, they were unprofessionally put together and edited, and the
writing is just not there. This is not the sort of thing that can be
easily corrected with just some notes or asking for re-dos. They
haven't done much publishing in the area of fiction previous to this
time, and my feeling is that as well-intentioned as they might be, they
don't really have the chops when it comes to fiction. And their
statements on their website are again somewhat overstating the
situation and not being entirely accurate in the projects and processes
being announced.

So having given a second chance to this process, and again as well
intentioned as they may be, my sense is that this is going to be a case
of diminishing returns. Fiction is a far more subjective field than
putting together reference books, and you really have to trust the
tastes and perspective of your editorial staff, which for me,
subjectively, isn't here. So I've stepped back and said I really can't
be a part of this process because I can't endorse something if I don't
think the quality is going to be there. So it's between them and WB at
this point.

jms

 

[darth_librarian]

Thanks Amy, I knew it was too good to call.

Harsh, but there you go. I've flicked through Mongoose's RPG products before, they seem fine, but that is a very different thing to writing fiction.

I guessJMS is just protecting the integrity of the franchise, which I respect. Hopefully Mongoose can up thier game on this...

Poor old M. Sprange, anyhow ...

 

[KoshFan]

There's no market for B5 books if JMS puts the kibosh on them.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

I disagree ... there will be some people who will buy B5 stuff whether JMS endorsed or not, as evidence by some of the comments over on the Mongoose board when this blew up before.

However, I would imagine that a lack of endorsement by JMS combined with them also being craptacular might just knock it on the head. Life is, however, seldom that simple.

 

[AnlaShokGrey]

I think Dave's right: there are definitely people who will buy anything B5, whether it's canon or not. Especially with Claudia writing an Ivanova tale. Which is, for all intents and purposes, like the crowning glory of fanfic: the actor themselves writing the character. But I also agree that if they suck, that will hurt them even more than JMS saying they suck.

 

[PillowRock]

There's no market for B5 books if JMS puts the kibosh on them.

I disagree ... there will be some people who will buy B5 stuff whether JMS endorsed or not,

I would take KF's "no market" comment to mean that they would sell anything like anough of them to make the publishing economically viable ...... not that there wouldn't be a single copy sold.

While I am sure that some copies would be sold, I think he's probably right. I think that an explicit disavowal from JMS would disuade more potential customers than if his name had never been mentioned in the first place.

(Granted, not all of the potential customers would be aware of these online exchanges at all.)

 

[Galahad]

I only bought a few of the B5 books because several weren't considered Canon. I wasn't overly interested in the teep trilogy so I never read them.... maybe that was a mistake.

However I do own "To Dream in the City of Sorrows", the Centauri Prime trilogy and the Technomage trilogy.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

I think JMS's comments will hurt sales overall, and really impact the U.S. market. Since Mongoose apparently doesn't publish here, the only way for U.S. fans to get the books is going to be to import them, with the attendant shipping costs and the unfavorable exchange rate. Without JMS's endorsement that's way too much expense and bother. People who might otherwise have bought one book just to check them out will probably give the series a pass, including Claudia's tome (which may not have been one of the ones JMS saw, since it may not be finished) unless it gets really stellar reviews.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

However I do own "To Dream in the City of Sorrows", the Centauri Prime trilogy and the Technomage trilogy.

I would add The Psi Corps Trilogy by J. Gregory Keyes and The Shadow Within by Jeanne Cavelos. It was the first of the Dell books to be written with input from JMS and approved to tell a story that fit directly into the continuity of the series (the voyage of the Icarus to Z'ha'dum.) It is not only a good book in itself, it also serves as a prequel of sorts to Cavelos's technomage books, since several characters she created in Shadow (and others that featured prominently in the book) are also important in the trilogy.

Regards,

Joe

 

[RMcD]

I only bought a few of the B5 books because several weren't considered Canon. I wasn't overly interested in the teep trilogy so I never read them.... maybe that was a mistake.

It's the only trilogy I have read, and I only finally got round to it this year after buying them on ebay. The first left me a bit confused because it covers a couple of centuries of history and dozens of characters at speed, but I thought the second and third, which cover Bester's life, were outstanding. Oddly enough, the telepath strand in the B5 story, which I hadn't previously found all that riveting, was suddenly of much greater interest to me after reading them..

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

The first left me a bit confused because it covers a couple of centuries of history and dozens of characters at speed

Yeah, I was a little put off by the first book of the Teep trilogy, too. Not only were there dozens of characters, but a fair number of them had several aliases, which made keeping track of everybody that much harder. But it is worth sticking with. It adds a lot of much-needed historical perspective to the entire telepath arc, and the events in it do much to inform the more personal story of Bester that unfolds over the next two books - which are practically a biography of the man. (Except that they skip over the entire period from Bester's arrival at B5 until well after the end of the Telepath War, which was/would have been shown in the series and Crusade and perhaps other unrealized projects.)

Regards,

Joe

 

[KoshN]

The first left me a bit confused because it covers a couple of centuries of history and dozens of characters at speed

Yeah, I was a little put off by the first book of the Teep trilogy, too. Not only were there dozens of characters, but a fair number of them had several aliases, which made keeping track of everybody that much harder.

I took notes of key events as I went, and put together a family tree for both Al Bester and Lyta Alexander. That helped a lot with keeping everybody straight (Who's who? Who's related to who? etc.).

But it is worth sticking with. It adds a lot of much-needed historical perspective to the entire telepath arc, and the events in it do much to inform the more personal story of Bester that unfolds over the next two books - which are practically a biography of the man. (Except that they skip over the entire period from Bester's arrival at B5 until well after the end of the Telepath War, which was/would have been shown in the series and Crusade and perhaps other unrealized projects.)

Agreed.

 

[RMcD]

Except that they skip over the entire period from Bester's arrival at B5 until well after the end of the Telepath War, which was/would have been shown in the series and Crusade and perhaps other unrealized projects.

Has there ever been any indication as to what he actually did during this period? I don't want to give anything away, but by the opening of the third book it seems the world views him in quite a different light. If Walter Koenig is still acting, it would be great to see him in Lost Tales..

Regarding the Mongoose books, I just can't believe there's sufficient interest out there to make publishing these worthwhile, especially now that JMS has given them his official seal of disapproval. I might buy Claudia Christian's, though, if published, since it seems certain to become an ultra-rare collectible in a few years..

 

[Sindatur]

The first book in the Teep Trilogy, is indeed difficult to follow the first time through, but, it's much easier to follow with a second read, after you are familiar with the story, and don't need to concentrate on the story as much, leaving you able to better follow the characters.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Has there ever been any indication as to what he actually did during this period?

Yes, JMS in various messages has given some of the broad outlines of what happened during the war itself. The Teep Trilogy does the same, and Fionna Avery's Bester script for Crusade also touches on it. Short version is this:

During the War Bester established one or more "re-education" camps for rogue teeps on Mars. Eventually mundanes who helped the Blips were also thrown into the camps, and then anyone who opposed or criticized Psi Corps. When the war started turning against the Corps, at least some of the prisoners of were massacred, reportedly on Bester's orders. (This parallels the situation in Nazi Germany where prisoners were murdered at a much faster rate towards the end of the war as Allied forces approached and those running the camps realized the Nazi regime was through and that they might be held accountable for their crimes.)

Bester himself escaped in the chaos at war's end and was tried and convicted on war crimes charges in absentia. He spent a number of years on the run before... well, I don't want to post spoilers for the Psi Corps trilogy itself.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Alluveal]

Smaller RPG companies just don't have the funds to pay the writers decently. Even the larger ones offer more prestige than financial compensation. It's a great place to break in and get some things published, but unless you're a larger company (i.e. WW or D&D,) then you're definitely looking at a limited pool from which to pick your writers. Furthermore, I imagine it's more difficult than one thinks to find a good writer who also knows the show inside and out.

If Mongoose had the sense God gave a mule, they would troll message boards like this and try to solicit a few peeps that stand out.

The thing is, they'd have to be willing to work for pennies (literally.) We're talking 3 to 4 cents a word (if that.)

It sounds pretty half-assed to me, especially if the "writers" are only identifyable by internet-handles. WB needs to get their heads out and either pay a little more for quality writing, or get some new editors, etc.

 

[Jan]

It sounds pretty half-assed to me, especially if the "writers" are only identifyable by internet-handles. WB needs to get their heads out and either pay a little more for quality writing, or get some new editors, etc.

I think you meant Mongoose there? WB has nothing to do with finding writers or editors for a licensed project.

Jan

 

[Alluveal]

Depends on the situation. I wrote for a company that had gaming rights (RPG) for one of Sony's big online MMORPG's and yet my editor and his boss had to submit work through Sony for some measure of approval.

If Mongoose doesn't have to answer to anyone, then yeah, Mongoose needs to get their heads out. Although, if they have a limited budget, they'll get what they pay for, and that means novice writers who are looking to break into the industry--whether they possess talent or not.

Again, if I was in charge, I would come to a board like this and try to gauge the knowledge level and writing skill level of the members, then solicit them to see if they have the time and the energy to put into writing a novel (and getting paid small beans for it.) The bonus would be that you get a novel out there in YOUR name and that pulls some weight in the writing world. So, it's give and take.

So many people on this board know so much about the B5 universe and also possess some measure of writing capability. You can tell a lot about a person by the posts they make. =)

 

[AnlaShokGrey]

I've gotta say: I don't think you can judge someone's ability to write a novel from their postings on a message board. There's more required than simply the ability to express oneself cogently. I know some extremely eloquent people who write boffo business letters, monographs, arguments, abstracts, etc., who don't have a creative bone in their bodies.

 

[Alluveal]

You'd be surprised what people can write if they put their minds to it. I'm not talking perfect grammatical skills, but a flair or way with words. It's at least a start . . . especially if you're looking to make a novel from a show like this and want people who know their stuff.

I hope they get it worked out.

I think it was Edison who said that it's 10% inspiration and 90% hard work.