More B5 on the way?

[hypatia]

Ah, but you can still see every Twilight Zone episode ever made by tuning in around New Year's.

 

[KoshN]

Ah, but you can still see every Twilight Zone episode ever made by tuning in around New Year's.

Not every one. Also, The original Twilight Zone's a classic, and it hasn't been allowed to get cold on TV precisely because it's often rerun, though not all of the episodes are rerun, and they're not rerun in order, so that you can't count on watching a specific episode at any given time. For example, you may be reasonably well assured that you may see the Burgess Meredith episode where he has all the time in the world to read but his glasses are broken ("Time Enough At Last"), but if I wanted to see "The Hunt," I'd better buy the DVD set. Personally, I'd like to see the 80s Twilight Zone added to the rerun schedule.

They can run The Twilight Zone like that, out of order, because it has no real order; it has no continuing arc. B5 pretty much has to be run in order, unless you're running a greatest hits collection for existing fans. Then, standalones or short arcs (Messages from Earth/Point of No Return/Severed Dreams) could work.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

The thing is, a B5 universe show with aliens wouldn't be done badly, but it wouldn't get a chance on Syfy because it'd contain aliens.

I've got nothing against aliens. I never said I did, I said that it's overused, and that it's become something of a cliche. B5's aliens were always pretty good, Trek's aliens were increasingly pretty crappy ("I am Cipher Plotdevice of the planet Prosthetic Foreheadulon IV"), Dr. Who's aliens are more-or-less in the middle, on like half the budget of either.

But I like SF because I like to see new things, and eventually aliens become old fashioned, you know? One needs to take a break now and again to reset the ol' tastebuds.

Not if it had Narn, Drazi, Minbari, Centauri, Drakh, Pak'ma'ra, any of the League of Non-Aligned Worlds, etc..

I'm sorry, what are you talking about?

 

[Republibot 3.0]

What's wrong with aliens? Other than the Fermi paradox thing, but most people don't give that much thought, do they? Or is it simply not the "in" thing in science fiction anymore... in which case I say so what, if they're done right they can become "in" again--artists should help shape what's "in" or not, not be dictated by it. Would there really be a lot of people in the science fiction audience who would reject a revival of the B5 universe because aliens are supposedly "passe", because some supposed sophisticates decreed it so? Fuck that noise, it's a noise that keeps changing anyway.

I think it's a fashion thing.

Aliens were initially monsters in media SF. Outer Limits and Twilight Zone turned them into interesting monsters with viewpoints of their own, but still basically things to be scared of. Trek turned them into sloppy allegories for races and political biases. "Aliens are just like you and me." Which is fine, but if you push that too far, then the aliens cease to be aliens, which kinda' kills the point, doesn't it? Trek was successful, so everyone pretty much did that for a long time. B5 played along the lines of "Aliens are people, but they're not just like you," and that was cool, but most of the world ignored it and kept on with Aliens as Ethnic Groups. Firefly and Galactica just chucked the whole thing, and it was a wise move for its time, a decade ago almost. Think of it as a reset.

SGU has done interesting stuff with aliens over the last 2 years, and they've stayed away from humanoids who act just like us. Obviously it can be done well, it's just that we had thirty years of extreme laziness, followed by a decade-long moratorium of sorts on the ambitious end of the genre, and now we're easing our way back into it again with a bit more restraint.

I'm not opposed to aliens, I'm opposed to Star Trek-ish aliens. Make sense? I'm opposed to entire alien species that are less interesting than the guy who works in the snack bar at the K-Mart down the road from me.

 

[KoshN]

The thing is, a B5 universe show with aliens wouldn't be done badly, but it wouldn't get a chance on Syfy because it'd contain aliens.

I've got nothing against aliens. I never said I did, I said that it's overused, and that it's become something of a cliche. B5's aliens were always pretty good, Trek's aliens were increasingly pretty crappy ("I am Cipher Plotdevice of the planet Prosthetic Foreheadulon IV"), Dr. Who's aliens are more-or-less in the middle, on like half the budget of either.

Oh half the budget of **B5** ??? Now THAT'S a small budget!

But I like SF because I like to see new things, and eventually aliens become old fashioned, you know? One needs to take a break now and again to reset the ol' tastebuds.

Not if it had Narn, Drazi, Minbari, Centauri, Drakh, Pak'ma'ra, any of the League of Non-Aligned Worlds, etc..

I'm sorry, what are you talking about?

A new B5 show or movie without any aliens wouldn't be B5; it'd feel weird.

 

[babylonfan]

A new B5 show or movie without any aliens wouldn't be B5; it'd feel weird.

Would that not also depend on what story was made? The telepath war would likely play mostly back on Earth and colonies. Then you might not need an abundance of aliens. Perhaps a handful in the storyline (Lennier comes to mind, Galen if you want to count Technomages as alien) and some "background filler".

 

[Republibot 3.0]

A new B5 show or movie without any aliens wouldn't be B5; it'd feel weird.

I never said I wanted B5 without aliens, I said that I liked the fact that Firefly and Galactica *didn't* have aliens.

 

[KoshN]

A new B5 show or movie without any aliens wouldn't be B5; it'd feel weird.

Would that not also depend on what story was made? The telepath war would likely play mostly back on Earth and colonies. Then you might not need an abundance of aliens. Perhaps a handful in the storyline (Lennier comes to mind, Galen if you want to count Technomages as alien) and some "background filler".

I'm just saying that a B5 universe TV show or movie that had none of the known B5 universe aliens wouldn't feel like a B5 universe TV show or movie. Even "The Telepath War" would need Lennier. We know that Lennier is there with Lyta at the end.

A new B5 show or movie without any aliens wouldn't be B5; it'd feel weird.

I never said I wanted B5 without aliens, I said that I liked the fact that Firefly and Galactica *didn't* have aliens.

I didn't say that you wanted B5 without aliens, just that a B5 universe story, even "The Telepath War," if it showed no aliens, it wouldn't feel like a B5 universe story. It'd feel forced, like the people with the money decreed "No aliens."

 

[Republibot 3.0]

I didn't say that you wanted B5 without aliens, just that a B5 universe story, even "The Telepath War," if it showed no aliens, it wouldn't feel like a B5 universe story. It'd feel forced, like the people with the money decreed "No aliens."

Ah.

Do you think that's very likely? I think the 'no aliens' thing is played out (Lost, BSG were successes, Firefly, FlashForward, and a dozen others were failures). It was a somewhat countercultural trend, but even during the phase when it was most prevalent you still had aliens galore in SF (Dr Who, Stargate, the Trek reboot, Avatar, any number of movies). Punk was never as popular as Disco, sad as that may be. "No Aliens" was never as popular as "Aliens." Arguably the humanoid cylons from the RDM BSG were alien. Certainly they weren't human, though they were semi-compatable with us.

 

[Galahad]

Thing is we need people like Ridley Scott to shut up. There's this persistent false notion that "science fiction is dead" that is in vogue at the moment that is being peddled by a lot of leading directors.

Scott has said that Science Fiction has "nothing new to say":guffawcontradiction in terms) and that the genre finds itself very much where the Western was in the 1980's.

It's complete poo of course... but Scott is highly respected (even if his most recent project was a flop... a flop that if you believe some sources was transformed from a potentially good one by his insistence on a rewrite when coming on board).

What is important is quality writing and quality acting both of which on the whole are not a problem where B5 is concerned. The real trouble is that the studios have closed their ears as usual.

 

[KoshN]

I didn't say that you wanted B5 without aliens, just that a B5 universe story, even "The Telepath War," if it showed no aliens, it wouldn't feel like a B5 universe story. It'd feel forced, like the people with the money decreed "No aliens."

Ah.

Do you think that's very likely?

I think that the people with the money might try something like that, but JMS wouldn't go for it, and the result would be that nothing gets made. Personally, I'd be perfectly satisfied with a series of Crusade novels, and a series of novels about The Telepath War, but JMS is against that method of storytelling for Crusade and The Telepath War, and nobody is banging down Warner Brothers' doors to commission B5 novels of any kind, so we won't get that.

I think the 'no aliens' thing is played out (Lost, BSG were successes, Firefly, FlashForward, and a dozen others were failures). It was a somewhat countercultural trend, but even during the phase when it was most prevalent you still had aliens galore in SF (Dr Who, Stargate, the Trek reboot, Avatar, any number of movies).

It was mainly in movies that science fiction with aliens was successful. On TV, it seems to be a harder sell. I'd leave out Doctor Who because that's considered more of a kid's show, and they're "allowed" to have aliens on their shows. Kids are kind of exempt.

Punk was never as popular as Disco, sad as that may be. "No Aliens" was never as popular as "Aliens." Arguably the humanoid cylons from the RDM BSG were alien.

Cylons were either pure machine or a human/machine hybrid. That's not alien.

Certainly they weren't human, though they were semi-compatable with us.

They were augmented humans.

 

[KoshN]

Thing is we need people like Ridley Scott to shut up. There's this persistent false notion that "science fiction is dead" that is in vogue at the moment that is being peddled by a lot of leading directors.

Scott has said that Science Fiction has "nothing new to say":guffawcontradiction in terms) and that the genre finds itself very much where the Western was in the 1980's.

Maybe it's Ridley Scott who has nothing new to say.

It's complete poo of course... but Scott is highly respected (even if his most recent project was a flop... a flop that if you believe some sources was transformed from a potentially good one by his insistence on a rewrite when coming on board).

It takes awhile for respect to atrophy; just look at Spielberg.

What is important is quality writing and quality acting both of which on the whole are not a problem where B5 is concerned. The real trouble is that the studios have closed their ears as usual.

Ears and eyes closed.

 

[rjb]

Personally, I would be happy with the story dictating whether there should be aliens or not. If a good writer wants/needs aliens, great. If a good writer doesn't want/need aliens, also great. The presence or absence of aliens doesn't (to me) determine the quality of a story one way or 'tother (though I recognise that some, shall we say, limited-minded people might find it hard to get past aliens with big hair, spots or a bone-structure on their heads, but I see that as their loss).

 

[Jade Jaguar]

I think that most of us would agree with that. The point is that the writer, or show creator, shouldn't be dictated to, and told that they can't have aliens.

 

[JoeD80]

Maybe it's Ridley Scott who has nothing new to say.

I don't believe he's ever written a script.

 

[Bester]

Thing is we need people like Ridley Scott to shut up. There's this persistent false notion that "science fiction is dead" that is in vogue at the moment that is being peddled by a lot of leading directors.

Scott has said that Science Fiction has "nothing new to say":guffawcontradiction in terms) and that the genre finds itself very much where the Western was in the 1980's.

Maybe he changed his mind....

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1446714/

 

[vorlonlovechild]

Think he's right in a way. How many crap sci-fi flicks have there been lately? How many rehashes of old stuff - like BSG & V? It needs something new to re-introduce our audience to sci-fi. Something a little different to the dross of late.

 

[Bester]

Think he's right in a way. How many crap sci-fi flicks have there been lately? How many rehashes of old stuff - like BSG & V? It needs something new to re-introduce our audience to sci-fi. Something a little different to the dross of late.

You could say that about 90% of the stuff that comes out of Hollywood these days. Not just sci-fi. Although, I am a little concerned at the current state of the genre on the small screen.

 

[KoshN]

Maybe it's Ridley Scott who has nothing new to say.

I don't believe he's ever written a script.

Directors certainly influence the final result that comes out, the film. Their personal stamp, their emphasis, is on the film.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Thing is we need people like Ridley Scott to shut up. There's this persistent false notion that "science fiction is dead" that is in vogue at the moment that is being peddled by a lot of leading directors.

Scott has said that Science Fiction has "nothing new to say":guffawcontradiction in terms) and that the genre finds itself very much where the Western was in the 1980's.

It's complete poo of course... but Scott is highly respected (even if his most recent project was a flop... a flop that if you believe some sources was transformed from a potentially good one by his insistence on a rewrite when coming on board).

What is important is quality writing and quality acting both of which on the whole are not a problem where B5 is concerned. The real trouble is that the studios have closed their ears as usual.

What was Ridley's latest flop?

Ridley Scott is a great, intuitive director, and he cranked out two of the all-time great modern SF films. He fiddles a lot with the scripts, but that's part of his process. I don't think you can compare an artist like him to a clearly-insane idiot like Jon Peters who just screws around with stuff because he can.

The comparison to westerns in the 80s is both apt and inapt. There's a lot more SF at present than there were westerns in the 80s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Western_films_of_the_1980s however most of it is pretty lowbrow. Of course most westerns were always pretty lowbrow as well. On the apt side, there's definitely a transition period going on here. In the 80s, westerns survived more as TV movies than anything else, and now SF appears to only be surviving on TV, despite (In both cases) the medium they're leaving being a better home for 'em.

A lot of this is fashion, a lot of it is, I think, public apathy, a lot of it is simply no one quite knowing where to go next. A lot of SF was driven by spectacle, but thanks to CGI, spectacle is rather hum-drum.