More on "Jeremiah"

B5LR · Jul 21, 2001

More on \"Jeremiah\"

More on "Jeremiah" 
JMS speaks - less cryptically than usual

JMS has posted a couple of follow-up messages to the “Jeremiah” announcement, filling in some of the details:

“To the various inquiries...

“Yes, it will eventually be syndicated, but not for about 2 years. Joe Dante is not involved due to other commitments, but another well-known feature film director is now attached to direct the pilot movie. (Again, I can't give specifics on crew or cast until Showtime comes out with that first... but I can say that there is a rather impressive pedigree of people both in front of and behind the camera).

“It will air in prime-time, on the Showtime network, and we have a heck of a lot more money to play with than on B5... it's going to be a huge show.”

jms

“Right around now in our timeline, a virus wipes out everyone on the planet over the age of puberty (figure around 12-13). It is now about 15 years later. Those who were once children have now grown up and are in their late 20s on down. For 15 years, they have been living on the scraps of the old world; now they must either continue the downward slide, or begin to rebuild the world, taking responsibility for themselves and the world and each other.

“It is, oddly enough, a post-apocalyptic series about *beginnings* rather than endings, about hope rather then despair. It is about the new world rising out of the ashes of the old world, what shape that world will take, and who will get to decide that shape. More than that would be to give too much away.”

jms

Mondo Londo · Jul 21, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

Two points:

1. I'm not sure this belongs in the "Rangers" discussion.

2. I thought Jeremiah was a bull frog!

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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

Joseph DeMartino · Jul 21, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

1) All stories posted to the news section get copied to the "Rangers Discussion Area" by default. Nothing I can do about that, because I'm not an admin or a moderator, just a lowly cub reporter.

2) Jeremiah is a bullfrog. That's one of the challenges JMS set for himself in writing this series. How do you make people believe in a bullfrog hero, and care about what happens to him? (Not to mention how expressive you can make him when all of his dialogue is a variation on "ribbit")

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

Zoriah · Jul 21, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

Interesting.

There has been a series made here in New Zealand for a few years called The Tribe, which has a startlingly similar premise. but it's not about the kids 15 years later, but rather about the kids coping with living in an adultless world. It's very popular in Europe and asia

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Joseph DeMartino · Jul 22, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...but rather about the kids coping with living in an adultless world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See also Peter Pan, Lord of the Flies and the Star Trek: TOS episode, "Miri." There is nothing new under the sun. The premise is not important. The execution is everything. After all, Moby Dick can be summarized as "A nut chasing a big fish." But something gets lost in the translation.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

hypatia · Jul 22, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

Now it seems I just got caught in the same thing earlier today in another thread.

Hey, folks, sometimes some of us like to mention similar plot devices we know and love. I don't recall many of us saying "this was the first".

Relax a little bit.

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"Why not? Only 1 Human captain has ever survived battle with the Minbari fleet. He is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."

Deviot · Jul 22, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
1) All stories posted to the news section get copied to the "Rangers Discussion Area" by default. Nothing I can do about that, because I'm not an admin or a moderator, just a lowly cub reporter.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmmn I wonder if Antony wants all news items in this forum or if it just somthing he has overlooked.

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Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au

drakh · Jul 22, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Zoriah:
There has been a series made here in New Zealand for a few years called The Tribe, which has a startlingly similar premise. but it's not about the kids 15 years later, but rather about the kids coping with living in an adultless world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're confusing setup with premise. They do have similar setups, but the premises are completly different (kids living without adults vs. adults rebuilding a ruined world). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It's very popular in Europe and asia<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Certainly not in my part of Europe...

Mondo Londo · Jul 22, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
I'm not an admin or a moderator, just a lowly cub reporter.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Should we start calling you "Jimmy Olsen?"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
2) Jeremiah is a bullfrog. That's one of the challenges JMS set for himself in writing this series. How do you make people believe in a bullfrog hero, and care about what happens to him? (Not to mention how expressive you can make him when all of his dialogue is a variation on "ribbit")

Regards,

Joe <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have him sing "It's not easy being green?"

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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

[This message has been edited by Mondo Londo (edited July 22, 2001).]

bakana · Jul 22, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

But he always had some mighty fine wine.

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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

Technomage Roanna · Jul 22, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by drakh:
You're confusing setup with premise. They do have similar setups, but the premises are completly different (kids living without adults vs. adults rebuilding a ruined world). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to mention target audiences will be quite different. After reading the comments on The Tribe here I saw it on my cable guide (Cable's WAM network airs it in the US). Watched two episodes last night from season two, and it is rated Y7, which means 7 years old and up, IIRC. It was okay, but somewhat simplistic for adult viewers.

Given that Jeremiah will be on a premium channel and JMS has said he intends to push the envelope of storytelling, I'm not thinking there's going to be too much resemblance in either theme or execution...

Ro

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I have no surviving
enemies. At all.

[This message has been edited by Technomage Roanna (edited July 22, 2001).]

Zoriah · Jul 23, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

You are right of course, I'm hazy on premise, set up, concept etc at the best of times

Just sounded like a similar starting point.

The Tribe is aimed at a younger audience and is certainly not a prime time show. Just found the initial and very loose similarity interesting.

I have no doubt that Jeremiah will be much more complex and arresting.

And by very popular I mean that many countries have picked up the show and are airing it. It's website is getting a huge amount of hits for a locally made NZ show, it's merchandise is selling like hotcakes off the website (they have their own trading cards now etc. I hear) and already the stars are being asked to make appearances in some of those countries where it is popular.

[This message has been edited by Zoriah (edited July 23, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Zoriah (edited July 23, 2001).]

Delbert · Jul 23, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

Talking about similar premises, in the early 70s the BBC (I think) made a series called Survivors, about a plague which whipes out the vast majority of the world's population. It's about the initial problems of surviving, then of building a community and restarting civilisation. The episodes that I have seen are very bleak in a good way, with generally good performances and interesting characters. There are criticisms that can be levelled against it, some of which are purely down to the changes in culture and technology since the series was made, but the idea and presentation work and it is well worth seeking out and watching with an open mind. It was created by Terry Nation, who also (I believe) invented the Daleks, as well as creating Blake's Seven and, I think, StarCops. The lead character of Abby Grant was played by Carolyn Seymour, who has also appeared in Quantum Leap and STTNG.

The major difference between Survivors and Jeremiah seems to be that the plague in Jeremiah is age-limited, while that in Survivors was non-discriminatory, it's just that some people survived and most did not.

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Joseph DeMartino · Jul 23, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>these are the voyages of the starship Space Beagle. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These words appear nowhere in The Voyage of the Space Beagle, they are purely the voice of the reviewer, trying to make the similarities obvious. (I don't recall if the Beagle even had a fixed timelimit to its mission.)

The book (published in 1939, not 1950) is certainly regarded as a classic, as are the earlier short stories and novellas which were later stitched together to form the single narrative. And it probably did influence Gene Rodennberry and Trek, but perhaps not directly. Beagle influenced so many later works (including the film classic Forbiden Planet which strongly resembles Trek not only in its ship and mission, but in the relationships among the characters) that Gene could have picked up ideas from it that were now part of the general toolkit of all space SF writers.

It is almost a dead certainty that the folks who did Alien weren't directly influenced by Beagle, which by the late 1970s was not nearly as well known as it had been. They were really borrowing from a couple of earlier SF movies - which may originally have been influenced by Beagle. Alien is really more a haunted house/horror movie in SF-drag than a space-based SF film in any event. (As Aliens is a military adventure film that could have played out almost anywhere - and did as Predator.)

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

bakana · Jul 23, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
(I don't recall if the Beagle even had a fixed timelimit to its mission.)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, it did. 5 years.

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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

Joseph DeMartino · Jul 23, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Yes, it did. 5 years.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Touche.

But remember, Gene R. chose the "five year mission" for the Enterprise because the economics of television at the time dictated that you needed five years' worth of episodes to be able to make a profit in syndication once you finished your network run. (Same reason JMS picked the five year arc - conventional wisdom is that you need at least 100 episodes before syndicators and local stations will be interested in "stripping" your show.)

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

bakana · Jul 23, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

I seem to remember that 'Space Beagle' was one of the Science Fiction Book Club's perrenial "get 4 books for a buck" choices. They seemed to have a warehouse full of them. Lot of copies of it were sold for many years because of this.

These bits of "borrowing" are not isolated by any means. Battlestar Galactica, during it's First Season was notorious for the sheer Number of "classic" SF books which found their way into various scripts.

Arguably the Best Known "oops" of this nature was the classic Trek episode "Tribbles".
By reports, the author realized, just a couple days before the episode went on the air, that he had inadvertantly "copied" the tribbles from a classic Heinlein book "The Rolloing Stones" where they were referred to as "Flat Cats".
He immediately phoned Heinlein and explained the problem. Including the fact that it was impossible to pull the episode by that time.

The writer reportedly said later that he offered to grovel, pay, whatever Heinlein wanted, for forgiveness. Heinlein just laughed, asked if it was a Good episode and requested a personal copy of the tape be sent to him.

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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

bakana · Jul 24, 2001

Re: More on \"Jeremiah\"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Talking about similar premises...

How about this one that predated Trek by 30 years:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
A.E. van Vogt
The Voyage of the Space Beagle (1950)
Reviewed: 1997-02-07

Undeniably this tale of cosmic adventure and exploration is one of the great classics of the genre, an inspiration to many later works. A fix-up of four novelettes,

these are the voyages of the starship Space Beagle. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before.

The Beagle's scientist crew has to face:

Coeurl, the black destroyer, a cat-like alien found on an ancient, deserted planet, an
intelligent creature killing to satisfy its need for id;

a hypnotic attack on the ship projected from a distance of lightyears by the Riim bird people, freeing the latent hatred among the crew;

Ixtl, the scarlet monster, lone survivor of an incredibly advanced species in the void of intergalactic space, with a particularly gruesome way to propagate its own kind (clearly the model for Alien);

and the Anabis, a galaxy-spanning creature of interstellar gas, who feeds on life force harvested from the dying.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

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