movie talk (possible spoilers)

[gangster]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by KoshN:
<font color=yellow>What? Is that somewhat along the lines as the only really bad advertising is that which doesn't put you in people's memories? I'm sure they could have made it (pointing at ships in a holo-display and pushing holo-buttons) "dramatic" without being over-the-top.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Same idea. And they could have made it less "dramatic" but didn't so we have to live with B5LOTR as made.

 

[solaris5]

Well, I can understand to want the character to be remmembered, but they want her to be remmembered in a good way.
I mean, you don't wanna be remmembered as the guy that spat in the punch. You wanna be remmembered as the guy who poured some vodka in it /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Then, they couild have shown her waving her hands over crystals and pushing buttons, or pointing at ships in a holo-display (like the Ranger council member Sindell did, and as Sarah did when she was magnifying an image), and pushing holo-buttons.<hr></blockquote>

As JMS has explained ad nauseum the weapons pod shown in the film was not the one in the script. Sarah would have dropped into the pod in her chair and fired the weapons using conventional controls as the display spun around her. The idea was to do something a little more visually interesting than the usual "sit a console, look at screen, press button" routine seen a million times in almost every space war show or movie ever seen.

Unfortunately when the production managers figured the actual cost of shooting what was in the script, the money simply wasn't there. Nor was there money to build a firing console and screen into Sarah's bridge position. And a lot of money had already been invested on the CGI side creating the hollow-sphere pod display system. Hanging Miriam from a wire rig and having her "fire" the weapons by body movements was a last minute, on-set, improvisation. Both Warner Bros. and Sci-Fi turned down requests for an increase in the movie budget (they were still haggling over costs and the possible series deal) so the production did the best that it could.

Given the circumstances, I thought the pod as shown was an interesting, if not really successful, idea.

Had a Rangers series been approved I'm sure enough money could have been scrounged from the S1 set budget to build the weapons pod JMS had originally envisioned, so this is essentially a moot point in more ways than one.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Loadhan]

*is surprised no one has mentioned the Hand possibly being the Thirdspace aliens* I have serious doubts about that theory but I heard it bouncing around enough I'm surprised to not see it here, heh. If they have any relation with Thirdspace I would rather seem them not be the Thirdspace aliens but have been sealed in Thirdspace. The squidy aliens there met them, faught them, and thus grew to be xenophobes and when they encountered others from the same universe as the Hand (the Vorlons) they immediately wanted to destroy them too. I could see the Vorlons making a gateway to Thirdspace because old legends spoke of "the Hand of God" existing there and they wanted to "open the door to heaven" and "look onto the face of God" and become gods themselves. They had the same divine desires as the Hand.

I would imagine the Hand is a red herring. I mean, was "Babylon 5" about "the last best hope for peace" for long? (Okay so they did go back to that - but for a long time there was no peace or chance of it) Was "Crusade" really about the Drakh plague? Now, I think the Hand will be important and could last throughout a said series ... but what we were told ... I'm guessing propoganda.

I'm half tempted that a group of aliens found some old stories and technology and are using the story of the Hand to enchance their cause. What would be great is if in doing so, they accidentally open up the portal and the real Hand comes through. Better yet, David and his crew inadvertantly release the Hand while trying to stop who they think is the Hand or stop those pretending to be. I'd like to see a B5 series do that; I think that would be excellent and very fitting. Heck, maybe - if it is Thirdspace - the squidy aliens killed off the Hand and they accidentally open up another gateway to let them into our realm! Ha!

I've always had a question about the First Ones and the B5 universe ... there is much debate on the size of the known space in B5 ... but it seems unlikely that even in the largest estimates (much larger than many) that that much of the galaxy has been explored by the races we've seen. Even in "A View From a Gallery", an unknown alien race from somewhere outside known space came through and headed off somewhere else. Do we know that there wasn't a million year old race still living on the opposite of the galactic core(s)? Or a hundred thousand year old race who could kick even the Minbari's arses (do they actually have arses?)? It seems rather convient that so many First Ones were in this area of the galaxy if that's all there were ... though I guess one could argue some of them - like the Shadows - wanted to be near Z'ha'dum because of their respect / worship of Lorien and others came here because of the Shadows and/or the Vorlons. They were all, though, even after thousands of years, within easy White Star distance from B5.

Oh, and one last thing to debate ... if the series existed, we can speculate that it would have lasted over two years - meaning it would have overlapped "A Call to Arms" and some of "Crusade". This would be a first for the B5 universe. Some even wonder if JMS wanted to do that to jumpstop "Crusade" again and run the two series together or at least tell some events of "Crusade" from a different angel. Ranger ships were scouting out areas to give the Excaliber the heads up on where to go. Possibly the Liandra would have been assigned to such a mission too. Ooo, what could have been interesting if no one was taking the Hand threat seriousily but David and his crew and everyone was big into the Drakh threat so they made the Liandra stop investigating the Hand ... when they knew they had to stop them so ... once again ... divided interests. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

*starts to wonder if he should write a story out too* Heehee.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

I didn't like the weapons pod scene either, but I'm willing to give JMS a pass, for the reasons Joe mentions. I think the best method would be to have targeting controlled by eye movements. We have this tech now, and it makes a lot of sense. Actual firing would probable still be a button, though. This eye system could be the basis for some good scifi CGI, as we see through her eye, and follow it's movements as she fires.

 

[KoshN]

<font color=orange>Well, my post to rastb5m was disallowed because it contained "Story Ideas." Here was my response:</font color=orange>

How could my post below be considered as containing story ideas? "To Live
and Die in Starlight" is already water under the bridge. To disallow
comments of what would have made it better, *after* it was aired, would be
like saying that nobody could say that they should have eliminated the "zoo"
scene from "The Gathering" before the TNT version of it was made. What are
the odds that TLaDiS will ever get remade? About 0%. To be a story idea,
TLaDiS would have to be remade. If this is to be the restriction on story
ideas, then nobody should be able to say how any episode of B5 or Crusade
could have been made better, i.e. no suggestions for elimination of scenes
or addition of scenes, because there's always the possibility that they
could be remade in the future.

Still, I understand if you think that JMS seeing this post jeopardizes the
possible future of Legend of the Rangers, you should NOT let the post
through. I wouldn't want to jeopardize the future of Legend of the Rangers,
either. The trouble is that without seeing criticism, he's going to keep
falling into the traps he did with TLaDiS. I just wish there was a release
form we could sign to get past this story idea silliness and legal BS. What
we have here is a Catch-22.

KoshN
------------------------
http://www.scifi.com/crusade/ http://www.b5lr.com/

"Nothing much good on TV tonight anyway." (Captain Gideon, Babylon 5
Crusade - The Memory of War)



----- Original Message -----
From: <b5mod-request@deepthot.org>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 1:57 PM
Subject: To Live and Die in Starlight - 5/24 Discussion from Another Group


> Your post to the rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated newsgroup has
> not been accepted, as the moderators find it to contain a "Story Idea".
> Under current copyright law, the publication of copyrightable
> proposals concerning the future course of an ongoing television
> series places the creators of the series at particular legal
> risk, which we here consider to be a Bad Thing. Therefore, as
> a courtesy to the executive producer of Babylon 5 and others,
> "Story Ideas" are explicitly prohibited by the charter of this
> group.
>
> If your post was not intended to propose a story idea, but merely
> to speculate on the future direction of the series, it may be that
> rephrasing the speculation will be sufficient to allow posting.
> The group FAQ, which is posted on a regular basis, contains a useful
> definition of what does or does not constitute a story idea, and the
> moderator who reviewed your post may have appended specific comments.
>
> If you feel that we have bounced this post in error, you may contact
> the moderators at b5mod-request@deepthot.org
>
>
> > [ The following text is in the "Windows-1252" character set. ]
> > [ Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
> > [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
> >


> > > No one seems to be doing anything here, I mean, when I look at my main
> > page,
> > > for each forum that I don't usually visit it says a couple of hundred
new,
> > for
> > > "off-off topic" a couple of thousand new, and for the ones I do visit
> > about 20-30 new.
> > > For this forum it says 1 new. The last time I posted here was so long
ago
> > it's not
> > > even funny. Only conclusion, no one ever goes here.
> >
> > Yes, because there seems to be not much left to say, and because it
appears
> > that Sci-Fi has passed on the series.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Well, okay, let's talk about the movie now.
> >
> > OK, I'll try to not repeat anything that was beaten to death in January.
> >
> >
> >
> > > What did everyone think of the Hand? I mean, what would you like
> > > to have seen happen, and how do you think the alliance could beat
them.
> >
> >
> > I thought the movie should have SHOWN The Hand and their ships, say
> > in flashbacks at the archeological site, maybe via newly discovered data
> > crystals (like discovered hours ago, otherwise they could have viewed
> > them on Minbar), or archeological carvings to be translated by say
> > MAX EILERSON. After all, Max is probably working with IPX in 2265.
> > It wouldn't be any stretch at all to see him on such an important dig.
> > We should have SEEN "something" of The Hand, not just their
> > cronies. We should have SEEN the archeological site. We should
> > have SEEN remains of the probe that returned through the portal.
> > Because we didn't SEE any of this, The Hand lack credibility of threat.
> > Sure the "dirty snowflake ship" cronies were powerful, but they could be
> > making all this stuff up. They could be doing it to sound like they
have
> > these big, badass allies, but they could be lying. Without SEEING The
> > Hand, it's like a buildup to nothing, a whimper not a BANG.
> >
> > More Ranger ships should have been involved in the mission. They
> > should have gotten at least one Whitestar model done to use on the
> > mission, to make a stronger firefight and establish a level of enemy
> > ship force that we could measure against the B5 universe ships,
> > and to establish stronger visual ties to the "B5 Universe" with which
> > we're familiar. That would have helped tremendously, lending much
> > needed familiarity, and SENSE OF SCALE. The three featured ships
> > were all previously unknown, never seen before in the "B5 Universe."
> > We don't know how powerful the enemy ships are, because we don't
> > know how powerful the Valen and Liandra are. There was no known
> > BENCHMARK. Were it not for the Minbari, Narn, and Drazi characters
> > we saw, and the couple Nial fighters and Whitestars, and B5 that
> > we very briefly saw, it was almost as if the characters were in a
> > different universe, on a different show that had no connection to
> > the B5 universe.
> >
> >
> >
> > > To my understanding, the ships they fought weren't the hand, they
> > > were little crappy ones given to a slave race. So it's natural to
> > > assume that the real ones are gonna own majorly, since these
> > > already kicked a lot of ass.
> >
> > True, but we should have SEEN some of The Hand and their actual
> > ships, somehow, not fighting them in the present, but in historical
> > records.
> >
> >
> >
> > > And what of the haunted ship? The ghosts didn't go away, they
> > > just chose to shut up for the moment. Would they have done
> > > another haunted episode? And if yes, what would the possible
> > > themes be?
> >
> > Anything that gives Dulann more to do, is fine by me.
> >
> > As it was, the movie reminded me of cotton candy, looks big,
> > but there is a lot of air in there. Not much richness/complexity
> > (thread density). Strangely, this is how I felt about Crusade
> > episodes when I first saw them (in TNT's order), but Crusade had
> > a lot more visual cues from the B5 universe. "To Live and Die in
> > Starlight," didn't have nearly as many connections to the B5
> > universe. It was like the council we saw in the movie. A lot of
> > people, myself included, thought it was probably the Gray Council.
> > In all of B5, we'd only ever seen one Minbari council like that, and
> > it was the Gray Council, so it was a natural assumption, and it
> > was wrong. The question is, why try to fake out and confuse the
> > audience?
> >
> >
> > KoshN
> > ------------------------
> > http://www.scifi.com/crusade/ http://www.b5lr.com/
> >
> > "Nothing much good on TV tonight anyway." (Captain Gideon, Babylon 5
> > Crusade - The Memory of War)

 

[KoshN]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Loadhan:
<font color=yellow> *is surprised no one has mentioned the Hand possibly being the Thirdspace aliens*
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Well, I could have sworn that somebody had already mentioned this here, possibly PsionTen?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Loadhan:
<font color=yellow> Oh, and one last thing to debate ... if the series existed, we can speculate that it would have lasted over two years - meaning it would have overlapped "A Call to Arms" and some of "Crusade". This would be a first for the B5 universe. Some even wonder if JMS wanted to do that to jumpstop "Crusade" again and run the two series together or at least tell some events of "Crusade" from a different angel.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Why wonder? JMS has mentioned this backdoor possibility.

 

[Lyta]

Originally posted by KoshN:
<font color=yellow>I'd say that the anti-Weapons Pod group won. That seems to be the thing that most people hate about the movie.</font color=yellow>

Hmm, I thought the debate was a little more even sided ... it was just the people who hated it were louder than those that loved it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif Didn't Ant have a poll up about the weapons pod and it came up about even didn't it? Heh, maybe I am just looking at the situation through rose-colored glasses since I really liked the weapons pod scenes. /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

I will have to give you the 2nd point as it was the most hotly debated part of the movie. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[Loadhan]

KoshN, sorry if someone mentioned the Thirdspace thing in this thread already - I must have missed it. I'm only replying to this to make sure I was clear; I don't want to sound as if I came up with that concept myself - I was refering to an older thread last January or Febuary that was a semi-lengthy debate if I recall correctly. I just wanted to mention it here since theories were running abound.

And about JMS stating the backdoor solution ... missed a quote from him too. I only saw speculation and I didn't want to state speculation as fact unless I knew for sure.

My personal belief would be that Turk would became the savior of the galaxy against the Hand. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

*j/k ... maybe* /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[KoshN]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Loadhan:
<font color=yellow> KoshN, sorry if someone mentioned the Thirdspace thing in this thread already - I must have missed it. I'm only replying to this to make sure I was clear; I don't want to sound as if I came up with that concept myself - I was refering to an older thread last January or Febuary that was a semi-lengthy debate if I recall correctly. I just wanted to mention it here since theories were running abound.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Not in this particular thread, in this forum.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Loadhan:
<font color=yellow> And about JMS stating the backdoor solution ... missed a quote from him too. I only saw speculation and I didn't want to state speculation as fact unless I knew for sure.
</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Here you go (could have sworn there was another quote that led to the first one below):


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jms at B5" <jmsatb5@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Attn JMS: Rangers, Crusade, DVDs


> >Your most recent comments quoted on "Cinescape On-Line" have produced the
> >latest round of "See, I *told* you 'Crusade' is definitely dead" posts.
> >Based on your earlier comments, I didn't read it that way. It just sounds
> >to me like you have a plan "B" in mind in case Sci-Fi decides it absolutely
> >*isn't* interested in "Crusade" after "Rangers" has been on the air for
> >awhile. Otherwise your preference would still be to finish the "Crusade"
> >story on a show called "Crusade." Am I wrong?
>
> Sigh...I guess these are people who, on finding one door locked, never think to
> go in a window and just leave. You *always* have a plan B. Also a plan C, D
> and E.
>
>
> jms
>
> (jmsatb5@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
> permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
> and don't send me story ideas)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jms at B5" <jmsatb5@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: A matter of timing


> >I mean, this last post began with the words, "It would be possible" and the
> >guy from the other board immediately took this as a "sign" that you really
> >want the show dead. Is he endowed with superior insight, or am I safe in
> >assuming that when you say "it would be possible" you mean, "it would be
> >possible"? <g>
>
> It is a sign that whoever posted that is a dork.
>
> Things take the time they take. The show just barely finished ariing on SFC.
> Look at the time frame between when B5 started airing on SFC, and when we got
> the go-ahead to do Rangers. TV doesn't work in idealized terms..."Gee it did
> great so let's go out and make a deal RIGHTNOW!" It is a slow, wearing,
> grinding process. TV is a cautious business.
>
> I have not been told, definitively, "no" by SFC, nor have I been told "yes;" I
> know what's in their budget to do at this moment, and I know they want to test
> the B5 waters in general with Rangers. I cannot imagine that, if the show does
> well, they wouldn't want to revisit Crusade.
>
> But to say that I want the show to die is right up there in the top two
> percentile of the top ten percent of dumb things I've heard this year. I would
> love to be able to finish the story, and fnish it properly. Until that
> happens, it will always be an unresolved issue with me.
>
> jms
>
> (jmsatb5@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
> permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
> and don't send me story ideas)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jms at B5" <jmsatb5@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: Crusade - how do you think you did?


> >Now that you've had some time to put the battles you fought during the
> >production behind you, how do you feel what was produced of Crusade
> >turned out?
> >
> >What was your strongest episode?
> >
> >What was your weakest (ignoring War Zone)?
>
> I still think the first five produced were our best of the ones we shot, in
> terms of the ones I wrote. The best scripts of mine per se would probably be
> the two that didn't get produced but which were made available via
> bookface.com, To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line. I think they
> would've kicked over the table and shown where the production, and the story,
> was going. They're also the ones I wrote after "Apperances," which is where I
> decided, "Fuck it, fuck TNT, fuck the notes, I'm just gonna go back to what I
> was doing for the first 5 and write what I want." I got pissed, and sometimes
> I write best when I'm angry about something.
>
> Weakest of my scripts...probably The Long Road, which started out as a good
> idea, and is still about 70% a good idea, but it's over-written and it
> feels...I dunno... stagey, somehow.
>
> You actually happened to hit me with this question on a reflective night, so
> I'm taking a bit more time than I normally would with this.
>
> I was talking to a friend recently, and I mentioned that in looking at the
> Crusade episodes on SFC, something about them bothers me...not the performers,
> who are all great, or the direction, which was generally quite good (with some
> lapses), but the writing. They didn't seem to me to have the same level of
> energy as B5.
>
> To which I was told, "You want to know the truth of it? I was glad when they
> shut down Crusade." Now, as you might expect, I was kind of taken aback by
> this, and asked for clarification and what this had to do with my original
> statement.
>
> The reply: "You were *exhausted*. You did five years of backbreaking work, you
> were averaging 3-4 hours sleep a night if you were lucky, you lost your hair,
> your health, and a good-sized chunk of your sanity...you were *tired*. The
> best thing would've been if there had been a year break between B5 and Crusade,
> to give you a chance to catch your breath. Would it have made a difference to
> TNT's decision? No. They changed their mind about the show based on their new
> ratings surveys before you ever shot a frame of film. But you wouldn't be
> sensing that lack of energy in the episodes now.
>
> "Look at the stuff now: the Rising Stars screenplay is getting fast-tracked,
> the studio and the network love (title deleted until press release is issued),
> it's some of your best work ever, and Rangers has the energy that B5 always
> had, that Crusade didn't. It's still better than 95% of what's out there, but
> it's not you writing at the top of your top form."
>
> "So how come you didn't say this at the time?" I asked.
>
> "Because then you couldn't have heard it, wouldn't have listened. Now you
> can."
>
> Hearing something like that is very difficult, because we all like to think
> we're invulnerable. In retrospect, I think there's a measure of truth to it.
> Maybe more than a measure.
>
> Crusade is a good show. It got beaten down after the first five, stayed kind
> of beaten down through network notes and my own fatigue fighting fights that I
> shouldn't have had to fight, then picked up with the two post-fuck'em scripts
> because my energy was gearing up again at that decision. But overall it was a
> good show.
>
> Not that it made any difference to Crusade's eventual fate; that had zero to do
> with the writing, acting, or directing, and everything to do with an internal
> corporate TNT decision about SF in general. Even written at 100% of my energy
> level, even if it had been a GREAT show instead of a very good show, it STILL
> would've met the fate it met. Of that there is no question.
>
> It was starting to pick up speed again with those last two scripts. I think we
> would've eventually progressed in quality to where it needed to be.
>
> But I had just enough energy to get it started, to write and produce it, but
> not enough to go through all that AND the day-to-day battles with the network.
> Having gone through five years of hell on B5, I could handle any two of those
> three, not all three.
>
> And I'm wondering now if, in the long run, maybe it was the best thing that
> could have happened. If it had not gone the way it did, I almost certainly
> would never have been in a position to do the things I'm doing now...a (still
> classified) high-profile and high-budget TV series for one network, a B5 TV
> movie that will almost certainly go to a series on SFC, and the Rising Stars
> feature film in addition to a bunch of other stuff. And it's all fresh, with
> energy, there's fun there, and I think Rangers will have the fun and energy and
> cool stuff that is emblematic of B5.
>
> I've always tried to be very forthright in my appraisal of my own work...I know
> where my strengths are, but I also know where my failings are, and I think one
> needs to be blunt about both. So I tend to be pretty merciless when looking
> back at this kind of thing, but I think it's necessary.
>
> It's weird to think that I'm actually in a *better* position now, in terms of
> my career and the quality of my work, with Crusade having gone the way it did,
> than I would be if it had continued...but there it is.
>
> It's a funny old world, you know...?
>
> jms
>
> (jmsatb5@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
> permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
> and don't send me story ideas)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jms at B5" <jmsatb5@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: LotR and Crusade timelines


> >Assuming that "Legend of the Rangers" leads to a new TV series,
> >wouldn't the events you'll tell there meet or coincide whith those depicted
> >in "Crusade" in the short term?
>
> Logically speaking, yes.
>
> >How are you going to manage that?
>
> With incredible elegance.
>
> jms
>
> (jmsatb5@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
> permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
> and don't send me story ideas)

 

[channe]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Loadhan:
<font color=yellow>My personal belief would be that Turk would became the savior of the galaxy against the Hand. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

*j/k ... maybe* /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

You know what they say.

Once you go Drazi, you never go back.

 

[Kribu]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by channe:
<font color=yellow>Once you go Drazi, you never go back.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Is there something you haven't told us? /ubbthreads/images/icons/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

 

[channe]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kribu:
<font color=yellow>Is there something you haven't told us? /ubbthreads/images/icons/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
I'm only repeating what I heard at... hmm, maybe I should keep my mouth shut. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[solaris5]

After watching the movie, twice, I still can't understand most of the Drazi comments made here.. Odd..

 

[hypatia]

I'll venture a guess: there was some debate as to exactly what the nature of the character Tirk was. JMS loves to surprise us, but Tirk did come across as a bit slow in the Rangers movie. Especially when he was speaking to the Drazi ambassador, he seemed to be different.

So of course there was speculation about how Tirk would surprise everyone by turning out to be a genius or something. There was an expectancy that there would be some kind of a surprise about the Tirk character.

Just my guess, but the "never go back" bit might be from personal experience, I can't say. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[channe]

What Hypatia said. And -

I had made a number of promotional t-shirt designs that never ended up seeing the light of day. They included such things as - let's see if I can remember 'em off the top of my head - "Free David Martel," "Just Another Ordinary Day At The Office (picture of the Liandra escaping a rather large fireball)", "I Went To Z'ha'dum and all I got was this lousy t-shirt", and a post by Gus Lynch inspired the "Once You Go Drazi, You Never Go Back" shirt.

There were a number of them. Some of them were hilarious, some sucked badly. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif I'm still thinking of putting the better ones up on cafepress...

 

[RW7427]

Thanks for the JMS info, KoshN. I don't know if I have heard it before, but it was still very interesting. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[solaris5]

So it's more of an inside thing then /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
I would've liked a : Got Teeps? shirt, with a picture of Lyta or Bester or someone, that'd be cool.