-
The new B5TV.COM is here. We've replaced our 16 year old software with flashy new XenForo install. Registration is open again. Password resets will work again. More info here.
My take on B5
- Thread starter Mercury
- Start date
Sindatur
Regular
Some people didn't like some of the plot of the plot twists, they thought it went against B5 the show proper in some cases. Personally, I enjoyed it, and thought things fit in pretty well. We didn't really learn much at all about the TechnoMages in B5 proper, so the field was pretty open, IMHO.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Maybe, and if so (Can't check because I long ago flushed out the PM Inbox.), I'm grateful. However, I was obtaining the books to get them to other B5ers who needed them, and/or to have them for new, potential B5 and/or Crusade fans to borrow, not for myself. I got my own B5 books and short stories usually the day they came out.
I bought my three copies (one for me and two for friends) of that Legions of Fire Book #3 the day they arrived at my local WaldenBooks. They received seven copies, I bought three, and IIRC, the other four were gone the next day or the day after.
KoshFan
Regular
Including some very important points where it made Galen look great at the expense of Sheridan. Repeatedly. I'm not exactly a slave to the Cult of the Captain, but it really undermined Sheridan's character, so I prefer to think of those books as non-canon.
I recall you saying something to that effect at the time, yes.
Sindatur
Regular
Well after all this I'll have to get em and buy em anyways cause this is all too interesting
Don'tcha just hate it when everyone knows something and can debate about it, that you haven't experienced
KoshN
Super Moderator
IMHO, The Technomage trilogy was very good, right up there with the Centauri trilogy, and both of those were better than the Psi Corps trilogy. The question is whether or not Cavelos did more with the Technomages, and made them (especially some of them) more powerful than JMS had intended. Galen, in particular, appears to be more powerful and accomplished in the Technomage trilogy (11/2258-2261) than he did in "A Call to Arms" (December 2266) and "Crusade" (January 2267 to ~Aug./Sept 2267). In "Crusade," some of the abilities that Galen demonstrated in The Technomage trilogy would have gotten him and the Excalibur crew out of the jams that they found themselves in. Note that I don't want to say too much because some (Mercury included) haven't read the books yet.
However, you have to realize that in "Crusade," what Galen does is what he allows the Excalibur crew and others see him do. He may not be revealing the full extent of his capabilities to the Excalibur crew and anybody else standing around. For Example in "Racing the Night" he appears utterly calm when he and supposedly everybody else on the Excalibur are in danger of being pulled down to the planet, possibly with the Excalibur to end up on that scrap heap with the other alien (Narn, Centauri, Brakiri, etc. ) ships. Maybe it's his confidence in Gideon, or maybe it's the confidence in himself (the confidence of a man with a few dozen potent aces up his sleeve). As you'll learn, one of the words of the Technomage code is Secrecy. The more somebody knows about the full extent of your power and abilities, the more likely that somebody will be able to figure out a defense against you, and hence you are effectively reduced in power.Galen does appear more accomplished and powerful in the Technomage trilogy (11/2258-2261) than he did in "A Call to Arms" (December 2266) and "Crusade" (January 2267 to ~Aug./Sept 2267). However, appearances may be deceiving. We'd have seen more of Galen's abilities had "Crusade" continued, and some (not all) of those abilities are in evidence in JMS's unfilmed "Crusade" scripts "To the Ends of the Earth" and "End of the Line." I'd have thought that JMS would have had oversight of what Cavelos did with Galen and the other Technomages, and if she significantly overstepped what JMS thought were the Technomages' capabilities, JMS would have stepped in and said something so that the novels would have remained canon, but who knows, maybe he never even read the finished trilogies or tried to guide the authors beyond what he put in the 10-20 page treatments he gave to each of them. Maybe somebody should ask JMS. Guess that'll be me. (Message sent to rastb5m.).
I also enjoyed it and don't think it really undermined Sheridan. Other people thought that Sheridan managed some of that stuff all on his own and are now disappointed. IMHO, it makes more sense with Galen's involvement. Sure, we see behind the scenes stuff, stuff that was never shown on "Babylon 5" but IMHO, in most cases, Cavelos did very well weaving "The Passing of the Techno-Mages" around the B5 and Crusade episodes it touched (The Geometry of Shadows, Interludes and Examinations, Z'ha'dum, The Path of Sorrows, all Gideon's flashback scenes from when the Cerberus was destroyed and Galen rescuing him, etc.). There's only one place where "The Passing of the Techno-Mages" conflicts with B5 ("The Geometry of Shadows" - when the ship carrying the Technomages is leaving.). That part of Book 2 "Summoning Light" (pages 318 starting with "The Crystal Cabin began to move..." through page 321 "The Crystal Cabin moved around the...") could have been done better, to make it match up with what we saw in the episode. IMHO, it's the only real mistake that Jeanne Cavelos made in the trilogy. Note that I left the details out to avoid spoiling it for Mercury.
Mums the word, people.There appears to be a discontinuity between the Galen of "The Passing of the Techno-Mages" (11/2258-2261, especially toward the end.) and the Galen of "Legions of Fire" Book 2 "Armies of Light and Dark" pages 58 & 59 (December 2266)
and
the Galen of "A Call to Arms" (12/2266) and Crusade (1/2267~8/2267, not really exhibiting the power he had six years ago.).
Not at the expense of Sheridan, at the expense of what you thought Sheridan could do all on his own (No, I'm not counting the fragment of Kosh Naranek that told him "Jump! Jump now!") against the Shadows at Z'ha'dum.
Well after all this I'll have to get em and buy em anyways cause this is all too interesting
Did Jeanne Cavelos go beyond what JMS wanted regarding the power of the techno-mages in general, and Galen in particular? Who knows. Hopefully JMS wouldn't let something as big as that slip by him. I asked him on rastb5m (Subject: Attn. JMS: Re. The Del Rey B5 trilogies, Galen in "The Passing of the Techno-mages" and Galen in "Crusade" , Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:51 PM). We'll have to see if he replies. I kinda doubt it, but there's no harm in trying to get an answer, eh?
Last edited:
KoshN
Super Moderator
Well, I got a reply, of sorts.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....ted/browse_frm/thread/c1be905b384b4f43?hl=en#
Kinda feel like Steve Martin in "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid" when somebody said "cleaning woman" to him.
KoshFan
Regular
Well, that's kind of my point. That scene, Sheridan's supposed to be at the end of his rope, back to the cliff, his wife's betrayed him, all he's got is a Vorlon shard lodged in his brain and the nukes which are about to kill him... I do not see him thinking, "Gee, maybe that technomage will help out any second now." And I think it takes some hand-waving back the other way to explain that.
But then, you're a Galen fanboy and I'm a Kosh fanboy; we'll likely never agree, and that's just fine.
KoshN
Super Moderator
No, by that time he probably thought the technomage had been taken out, and doing what Kosh said was all he had left.
SPOILER SPACE (Why is the Spoiler Code not working?)
Spoiler for Where Galen was when Sheridan was on the balcony:
We've really got to watch it here because Mercury hasn't read the books.
I'm a Kosh fan and a Galen fan.
Last edited:
KoshN
Super Moderator
I thought that the = sign and words of explanation between the = sign and the ] were optional. Guess not.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Sindatur
Regular
Apparently the words are optional, but, the "=" sign is required. I had to be told about 3 times by VL and Markas (and maybe even someone else) before it finally sunk in.
KoshFan
Regular
It’s just a thought, and probably a very bad one as I haven’t read any of the books.
But given that jms wanted them to be viewed as part of the story of B5, expanding existing elements and introducing new ones. Is it not possible that joe himself wanted these sort of story elements included in order to explain why certain things happened the way they did in the show, such as what your saying about the ‘eye’ etc.
But given that jms wanted them to be viewed as part of the story of B5, expanding existing elements and introducing new ones. Is it not possible that joe himself wanted these sort of story elements included in order to explain why certain things happened the way they did in the show, such as what your saying about the ‘eye’ etc.
KoshN
Super Moderator
It depends upon whether it was in JMS's 10-20 page treatment that he gave to Jeanne Cavelos
or
whether Cavelos came up with these things herself.
Was it a bullet point in JMS's treatment that she had to hit, or was that her idea?
That's why I asked JMS the question:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....ted/browse_frm/thread/c1be905b384b4f43?hl=en#
