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Newbie just starting S2 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

I was expecting it, but not so soon.
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Really, when did you start expecting it? It completely took me by surprise, and I wasn't convinced until the next episode that it actually had happened. I mean, I know all about the "If you go to Z'Ha'Dum, I won't be there for you", but, that didn't make me expect what happened.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

I certainly didn't expect it; I thought Kosh was almost invincible. I thought, like Sheridan, that Kosh was just being kinda snotty...definitely not talking about his murder.

I am devastated! I really liked Kosh.

The other one...Ship of Tears...I NEVER in a million years thought I would feel empathy for Bester...but I DID!!!
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Reading ilikemike's posts is like reliving the series all over again! Even though I discovered the show in 2005, and watched it non-stop (of course, i purchased all the DVD sets right before the price drop. grrr.) I can relate to how you feel about this show!

I had a vague knowledge of it back when it was on originially, and I too, remember seeing bits of an episode with Melissa Gilbert back in the day, but I was a Star Trek fan, so that's all I watched.

As I grow up, and watch shows like B5 and Battlestar Galactica, they really show me what great television can be an diminish Star Trek's star (so to speak) for me just a bit.

Anywho, B5 is great -- I'm currently reading the 3 trilogys that are considered canon by JMS -- they really are great! You should try and get your hands on them as well, in addition to Crusade and the B5 Movies. You won't be able to get enough!
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Next up for ilikemike, an innocuous little two-parter. Looks like you'll be pulling a double shift.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Really, when did you start expecting it? It completely took me by surprise, and I wasn't convinced until the next episode that it actually had happened.
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Traditional in epic storytelling and (to use a not-entirely-helpful over-simplification) "hero's journey" tales is the Mentor, who always has to depart, or get killed or at least be separated from the Hero at a critical moment, so that the Hero can become his own man. (Think Gandalf, Obi-Wan or Mentor himself - Mentor having been the given name of a Greek elder who advised the heroes of the Trojan War.)

So it was predictable that something like this might happen to Kosh at some point. But. like I said, even JMS was surprised that it happened when it did. He had envisioned it happening later, and as it approached he kept trying to put it off, but finally Kosh himself (or the part of JMS's brain that pretends to be Kosh) said, "No. Do it now. It is right and it makes for a better story" (or words to that effect.) Rather like another moment, in a later episode, when the last character you'd ever think of stepped forward and said, "I should do this thing, not the guy you meant to do it. It just works better." And he was right. :)

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Oh certainly Hero's Journey, but this was only the start of the Hero's Journey.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

So it was predictable that something like this might happen to Kosh at some point. But. like I said, even JMS was surprised that it happened when it did. He had envisioned it happening later, and as it approached he kept trying to put it off, but finally Kosh himself (or the part of JMS's brain that pretends to be Kosh) said, "No. Do it now.
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My guess is that JMS was planning for Kosh to die in "Falling Towards Apotheosis". It was better this way.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Next up for ilikemike, an innocuous little two-parter. Looks like you'll be pulling a double shift.
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I'm probably going to watch this later tonight. I can't wait to do so.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Oh certainly Hero's Journey, but this was only the start of the Hero's Journey.
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??? This is nearly two seasons into the Hero's journey - and Sheridan did have a fairly eventful life which was part of the journey before he arrived at Babylon 5.

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

I wish that I could claim Joe's answer as the basis for my expectation... but in reality, I started expecting Kosh to die when somebody let slip that "Kosh dies near the end of Season 3."

I have several friends who blew a lot of B5 details for me. Since they also introduced me to the show (and to BSG, more recently), I can't really complain... but it irked me a little at the time.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Well...you folks have been great to me...no spoilers at all...unless I've been too dumb to pick them up.

I'm going to start watching the two-parter now.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

My guess is that JMS was planning for Kosh to die in "Falling Towards Apotheosis". It was better this way.
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In replying to Andrew's post I was about to say something about an episode that ilikemike hasn't (quite) hit yet, So just a reminder: Let's all be extra careful about spoilers. Even titles and oblique references can say more than we mean for them to. Especially now that likemike is getting into the meat of the story and the point where the storytelling really speeds up it is easy to say too much, even to lose track of which events happens in which episodes.

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Thanks, Joe....

Well, I just finished watching both parts of "War Without End." At first, I was totally confused and had absolutely NO idea what was going on, especially to Sheridan...visions of the future?...Londo and G'Kar as old men...Londo as the emperor...his keeper? ...Vir? Londo and G'Kar kill one another? Like Scrooge, is this definitely the future that is to be...or can it be changed? Did it get changed (no, don't tell me).

Sheridan and Delenn have a son? More 'maybe's'?

Then there's the huge shockeroo about Sinclair...he's really a Minbari? Holy Cow!!!!! Valen!!! Wow!!!!

Zathras...a really interesting character...telling them who The One is. Sinclair, the past; Delenn, the present; Sheridan, the future.

I'm still confused, but there's a logic to it, if that makes any sense at all. I sort of feel like I did after reading 'Crime and Punishment.' I understood what was going on, but it still confused me. WHY was it going on?

I'm sure there will be more explanation ahead; I look forward to knowing WHY.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

I saw War without End before I never had the chance to see the season 1 episodes. So when Sinclair showed up, I had no idea who the hell he was since as far as I knew, Sheridan had been the commander from the beginning.

However, once TNT picked the show up and broadcast the reruns, I had a chance to see season 1 and Sinclair became one of my favorite characters.

As for these two episodes, I really enjoy them.

"You are finite. Zathras is finite. This...this is wrong tool."
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Then there's the huge shockeroo about Sinclair...he's really a Minbari? Holy Cow!!!!! Valen!!! Wow!!!!
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It's not that Sinclair was really a Minbari all along; he became one. Sinclair was human until he used the Chrysalis device to become a Minbari, much in the same way that Delenn was a Minbari and used the Chrysalis device to become human.

WHY was it going on?
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Why was what, specifically, going on? The gang stealing Babylon 4? Well, one could go the existential route and say, simply, as Delenn says, because they had already done so. It was part of Minbari history, though not one modern day Minbari were exactly aware of. Draal, with the capacities of the Great Machine on Epsilon 3, however, could easily learn that Babylon 4 played a major role in the Minbari's previous war with the Shadows, and he passed that information along to Delenn, who, seeing what history was, set out to make sure that what had happened would happen.

The Shadows had destroyed the Minbari's major base of operations during the last war, and without Babylon 4 to replace that base, the Minbari would have failed in the war against the Shadows. And that would have enabled the Shadows to be better equipped and prepared for the current day and more or less ensure the Shadow's victory over Babylon 5.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Oh, and...

Londo and G'Kar as old men... [...] Londo and G'Kar kill one another?
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[whisper whisper] You've actually seen some of this before. It was during a certain someone's dream about their death back during season two's "The Coming of Shadows", also the events of said dream were mentioned far back in season one's premier "Midnight On The Firing Line". ;)

Londo as the emperor... [...] ...Vir?
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That Lady Morella and her prophesies ("Point of No Return"), what a nut. ;)
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Yup. The real shocker wasn't that Londo and G'Kar were going to kill each other -- it was why.
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

This is one intricate plot...JMS must be a genius. It is beginning to come together for me, thanks to the help from you guys. It's nice to not feel so dumb about "getting" some of these very detailed plot lines. Being reminded of where some of this has been predicted and/or been mentioned before really helps. Boy, do I LOVE stuff like this!!!!
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Not dumb, ilikemike. Remember how we told you that the second watching of the show was just as good because you'd catch many of the foreshadowings you'd missed or forgotten the first time around? Even though we're reminding you of some of them, you'll *still* enjoy the show a lot on multiple viewings.

But we'd all just love to go back and experience it again for the first time. Thanks for sharing that part with us.

Jan
 
Re: Newbie just starting S3 - Non-Spoilers ONLY!

Yep, like Jan said. You'll probably want to throw Season 1 Disk 1 in right after you finish watching the final episode, and see it all again! :beer:
 
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