nothing special to post but a few points

[**DONOTDELETE**]

a few points for you all ...

1.
have you noticed when you watch babylon 5 episodes again and again you allways notice something different that you hand not noticed before ??

2.
i have heard that in the uk that bravo will be re running babylon 5 all uncut !! but i am not 100% sure about this

please could some1 confirm this 4 me ??

thank you ladies+gentlemen



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"Nothing's the same anymore."
Sinclair, Chrysalis

------------------------visit my website - http://www.babylonfive.co.uk

 

[Nukemall]

1. Yes
2. Haven't heard anything about this and a quick search on the web hasn't shed any light on this. Where did you hear this?



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"And you, madam, are ugly. But I shall be sober in the morning." - Winston Churchill
--
yan@ranger.b5lr.com

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

1-Yep but i find this with a lot of shows. Just happens that B5, DS9 and believe it or not voyager have a lot of that. Thats why i like taping shows to watch them at one sitting . You catch a lot of stuff. For example on voyager there is a arc of like 5 episodes where tid bits from one episode are spread throughout the other 4. You wouldnt realize it if you just had watched 1 episode a week. Babylon 5 and DS9 go through the same thing. Something in Season 2 comes up in season 4 or 5. I love shows like that

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DS9 and B5. Who would have thought 2 of my fav shows would take place on stations in the middle of nowhere

 

[bakana]

Yeah, but with the Trek shows, it's usually an Accident.

On B5, the continuity was Planned.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[GKarsEye]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Yeah, but with the Trek shows, it's usually an Accident. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, the writers accidentally slipped and the pens fell on the paper and happened to accidentally scribble stories that spanned the course of more than one episode. The entire Dominion war was an accident. "Oops, story arc."

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Trek or DS9?

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Andrew Swallow

 

[Ninja_Squirrel]

I don't always notice something "new", but I often notice little details that I've either forgotten or never noticed before. I tend to remember each episode by what major things happened in it.

Sometimes, I'll think, "I don't need to watch that episode because the main subplot isn't my favorite," or something to that effect, but then I'll watch the first few mintues anyway and notice that the episode also includes one of the nicer subplots in terms of character development, humor, memorable quotes, favorite moments, subtle arc development or some other icing on the cake.

I almost always end up watching every episode I'm capable of watching afterall, often because of those neat little bonuses that I don't automatically associate with a particular episode.

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An Old Egyptian Blessing: May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places that you must walk.

Thoughts & prayers to soldiers fighting overseas and to their families.

 

[RW7427]

1) Yes, that's part of why I love B5.

2)I wouldn't know since I live in the U.S.

------------------
Lorien: Who are you?
RW: The salad man.
Lorien: Why are you here?
RW: To be the salad ambassador.
Lorien: What do you want?
RW: Everyone to know the joys of salad.
Lorien: Do you have anything worth living for?
RW: Yes, my salad bars.

 

[bakana]

Yep, them Trek series have been SO original.

Lets see, we have:

ST:TNG redoing Lost In Space with the Kid and the cute robot (Data).

ST

S9 ripping off B5.

Edit: I just found out that if you type ST: DS9 without any spaces, you get a

ST:Voyager redoing Battlestar Galactica - Looking for Earth.

ST:Enterprise - X-Files on a Spaceship.
Wheee. Mysterious conspiracies abound.

I'm waiting for them to announce Another new series with a Twin Peaks plotline.
That one, they could milk Forever.

Should it be the Vulcan, the Klingon or some New species that carries a chunk of firewood around with him/her everywhere??
Or maybe the Captain?

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

[This message has been edited by bakana (edited January 06, 2002).]

 

[Jade Jaguar]

The Vulcan owls are not what they seem.

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You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

 

[GKarsEye]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Yep, them Trek series have been SO original <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, about as original as Babylon 5, who so obviously copied Star Trek and Lord of the Rings.

Tell me, why is it that when people accuse B5 of ripping off other ideas, you get all ticked off, but you do the same for Trek on even flimsier grounds. Lost in Space? Give me a break.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[Recoil]

Lost is Space is reaching just a tad.

From everything I have seen and read, DS9 is a ripoff on the B5 storyline, but not done nearly as well. Granted, I liked early DS9 and watched it regularly, but the story wasn't nearly as capivating as B5 is.

Voyager != Battlestar Galatica
In Galatica it was a ship Searching for Earth, a mythical lost colony. In Voyager, they know damn well where Earth is, and its no myth, they were just shot a long way away from it

As for Enterprise, to me its more like ST:TOS than anything, with some new plot lines filled in.

As someone else said, 'There are no more original ideas, only original combinations'. DS9 may have borrowed a lot (read: ripped off) from B5's story, but the ST writers didn't have the consistency in their overall arc that JMS did. B5 may be paying some homage to Lord of the Rings in some ways, but its hardly ripping off. You can put ideas together from stuff done before, but its how you deliver that is most important.

Another good example for me in this is X-Files. When the series was new, in the first 2 years, I was totally into the whole 'alien colonization' plot going on in the background. Later, about a season or two after their movie, it is clear that they have totally lost focus on that plot thread and they are way off track from where they were. It all comes down to the delivery.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK

 

[Quagmire]

For those of you who believe DS9 copied B5, I not only do but think it's fairly obvious, the aspects of DS9 that can be attributed to copying B5 are not as extensive as some believe. Various starting concepts like the wormhole, having a shapeshifter(even though B5 dropped this before making the Gathering), and the setting being a station located where different species and empires collide could all be rip offs. However the idea that a major portion of the story line was ripped off doesn't have the same reasonable basis. Early on DS9 had no storyline. It had no arc. Often the show seemed like a weekly whodunnit at which point I stopped watching. Later in the run they got into the whole war thing and because I happened to catch a late night rerun I picked it up again. This was long after the show had been established and probably past the point when the network was making many suggestions. Remember that even JMS has said that the creative people were influenced unawares by Paramount(who had acces to his script and show bible). DS9 didn't do much of it's best work until after Paramount had shifted it's attention to the flagship show for their new network the gag reflex test know as Voyager. While early on the show suffered because it was a conceptual copy without any of the ideas behind it we can't hold the network's conniving against them once they did start taking chances.

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"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny

 

[Demon]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> ST:Enterprise - X-Files on a Spaceship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But what about the Crudase episode "Visitors from Down the Street"? Was that a copy, a satire or a tribute to the X-Files?

I loved Star Trek: TOS when it first came on TV, but then it was the only game in town. I liked each subsequent Star Trek series less than the one before, but I think it's going too far to trash it so completely. Like any TV programme it has good and bad episodes.

B5 had some great ones, a lot of them, but it had the odd stinker, too. Let's not get too carried away with praise of one series and criticisms of another. Let's just enjoy the best of each of them, and be grateful that we now have enough quality Sci Fi TV to be able to choose.



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Demon

 

[Technomage Roanna]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Demon:
But what about the Crudase episode "Visitors from Down the Street"? Was that a copy, a satire or a tribute to the X-Files?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was clearly a parody and tribute to X-files. The dialog, the characters, and the stylistic elements were all deliberately taken off the X-Files style.

Ro



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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper

 

[Demon]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>It was clearly a parody and tribute to X-files. The dialog, the characters, and the stylistic elements were all deliberately taken off the X-Files style. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ITA! But I can also see how some people could look at that episode and say, "Oh look, JMS is copying X-Files"

There are indeed no new stories, just new ways of telling them

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Demon

 

[Technomage Roanna]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Demon:
ITA! But I can also see how some people could look at that episode and say, "Oh look, JMS is copying X-Files"

There are indeed no new stories, just new ways of telling them

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is, parody is a long standing literary device. I know that some folks might not be used to it's more subtle forms rather than Scary Movie or Not Another Teen Movie. But that's simply a question of ignorance in its literal sense, and easily remedied if one is open.

However, some of the people who I've seen post on it insist that Visitors is a sign of how deteriorated JMS imagination and skills were on Crusade.

To which I reply, GIVE ME A FREAKIN' BREAK!!!

If most of us accomplish 1/4 so much in our professional lives we'll be doing damn good.

Fine, it didn't strike some people as funny, (as the above mentioned movies don't really do anything for my funny bone).

But, even without knowing much about X-Files I thought it was a hoot. The best kind of parody- pointedly connected to it's source material, but strong enough on its own merits to be enjoyable if you didn't get every in joke.

Sorry, you ran into one of my buttons.

Along with the one where someone accuses JMS of simply rewriting The Lord of the Rings.

Ro

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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper

[This message has been edited by Technomage Roanna (edited January 07, 2002).]

 

[bakana]

ST:TNG being a redo of Lost In Space isn't any sort of stretch. Some of the Writers who worked on the show while it was being "developed" talked about the fact that the Studio Suits ordered them to put "Wesley" into the story because "Lost" was such a hit with Kids and they wanted a character "young boys" could identify with. These were the same sort of suit who are Still around declaring that SF is for Kids.

A few of the writers were rather Bitter about the whole thing. They Liked TOS and had visions of creating something great.
Instead, they got told: "You just don't understand Science Fiction" and lost their chance to write for the show.
They had no qualms about telling their story at Cons. Talking about the Stupidities isn't covered by non disclosure. Particularly after the show is on the air and the new plot is no longer a secret.

One of the things about SF is that, particularly among the Writers, it's a fairly small community. Sooner or later, everyone knows all the dirt.
If you attend the right conventions, the Fans get to hear some of it too.

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[superbob]

O.k, granted I'm not as clued up on B5 as some of my fellow B5'ers here, most notedly would be our resident 5 diamond B5'ers.
I do know this, whoever drew up the similarities between B5 and The Lord of the Rings should be drawn and quarted , shot, poisoned, burnt at the stake and be made to watch as many Barney the dinosaur reruns as possible.
The "similarities" between B5 and LOTR's is the same as any other tv shows , books and movies.
I do stand under correction if JMS has stated that he copied it but other than that it's all a load of, well you know what I mean.
All major sagas have the same thing in commen goodv evil. A balance between chaos and evil, usually with a person/ peoples trying to restore what the believe is good. B5 and LOTR's present some of the most classic examples. Good for the sake of good, buying freedom for the right reasons. Enabling commen people to make their own "right" or "wrong" decisions. Now all of a sudden each species of the B5 storyline is reminiscint of one of the many races of middle earth. Of course there will be a similarity of some sort, I mean c'mon think about this logically. Each race/ specie of either storyline follows certain characteristics which all lie in literary interpretation which in essence is a reflection of humans and their society's through the ages. If anything the various races of B5 relate more to human history in the past couple of hundred years. Example:
Narns, enslaved by Centauri and used as slave labour until they were able to rebel. Sounding a little like the dilemma experienced by Africans not so long ago.
Minbari, sophisticated culture, superb warrior tradition. Emphasis on religion to achieve spiritual fulfillment - sound a little asian? chinese or Japanese.
Centauri, a decadent republic - Ave Caesar!

Sorry to blow up like that but a button was found and as a result, pop goes the temper. All I'm trying to say is yes inspiration plays a part, copyright? not really because then every writer since way back when is guilty of this particular crime )

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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"

 

[Technomage Roanna]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by superbob:
I do know this, whoever drew up the similarities between B5 and The Lord of the Rings should be drawn and quarted , shot, poisoned, burnt at the stake and be made to watch as many Barney the dinosaur reruns as possible.
The "similarities" between B5 and LOTR's is the same as any other tv shows , books and movies.
I do stand under correction if JMS has stated that he copied it but other than that it's all a load of, well you know what I mean.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JMS has said that there are a few nods to LotR in B5, as there are to several other SciFi Fantasy influences- for example, Lorien's name harks back to Lothlorien in LotR, and Alfred Bester is the name of a pioneer Sci Fi writer who among other things wrote about Teeps and their effect on a society.

That's a long way from transposing a blueprint from one work to another, which is why it's one of my buttons as well.

Though I'd simply spank them and make them stand in a corner without internet access for a while.

Ro



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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper