odds of seeing a CRUSADE completion movie?

[Joseph DeMartino]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I really don't understand the reason so many people want Crusade to be reincarnated. I watched it, and quite enjoyed it and I was looking forward to seeing more when it was cancelled.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, I think part of it is the fact that it wasn't "cancelled." If a show airs, doesn't get good enough ratings and the network kills it, you don't like it, but you sort of understand it. Not every show is going to find an audience, not every show is going to be a hit - or even get sufficient numbers to stay alive. That's the nature of the biz, we've all seen favorite shows get the ax, and I think for the most part we accept that.

But Crusade was killed by TNT six months before the first episode ever aired, and I think that makes all the difference in the world to a lot of fans. The show never had a chance to succeed or fail on its merits. It was shut down for reasons of internal corporate politics having absolutely nothing to do with the show's quality or appeal.

In fact, when TNT finally got around to airing the show, it got very respectable ratings. It averaged a 1.28 over 13 episodes (adjusted for coverage area) - higher than its average rating on Sci-Fi (O.8)

TNT then compounded its sin (in the eyes of fans) by making it impossible for the Sci-Fi Channel to pick up the show and continue it. It is one thing to decide a show is not right for your network and pull out. It is quite another to cynically manipulate the situation to prevent the studio from taking it to a network that wants it, which is exactly what TNT did. The executives involved were terribly afraid that Sci-Fi might make a success of the show, and thereby make them look stupid for turning it down.

So there is a greater sense of "unfinished business" about Crusade than there would be about a show that got a legitimate shot and didn't make it for any of the usual reasons.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[bakana]

It's obvious that Joe & I will never agree on the necessity of the books.

Joe makes the point that the TV show was complete in itself. Which is true, if it weren't, it would be shortchanging the viewers. But that is Not the whole story. As I pointed out, JMS intended the Books and Comics to be part of the Whole Babylon 5 Experience. If you don't read them, you Haven't gotten everything JMS wanted you to have. It is up to each individual to decide if he/she wants it ALL. YMMV.


Crusade is a separate story placed in the same universe. I personally want to see it because I have faith in JMS ability to make it even better than Babylon 5, given the chance.

The key to Crusade is the Questions:

Who do you work for?

I'd bet Gideon has to Choose between EarthGov and Humanity.

Who Do You Trust? Gideon is going to have to ask That question a LOT.

Earthgov? Not a chance. Galen? The Apocalypse box? His XO?

His Crew? Perhaps the Mutiny on his previous ship was forshadowing something?



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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[drakh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jomar:
I really don't understand the reason so many people want Crusade to be reincarnated.
...
It wasn't on long enough for me to get attached to any of the characters or the actors and although I was a bit curious what would happen next I really never gave it much thought.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It was certainly on long enough for me to start to like Gideon a lot, be intreagued by the apocalypse box, and wonder what that mysterious black ship was.

Add the unproduced scripts, and you have a story I want to see the end of.

 

[GideonsMine]

For me, long before the first episode was ever thought up, I was a Gary Cole fan. So he was the draw for me. Unfortunately, I saw episodes with a lot of potential in JMS's hands and no real sponsorship on the part of TNT (which really burns me).

I am hoping and working towards getting it back from the Sci Fi Channel. They are a Sci Fi medium whereas TNT is not. But we shall see.

Yes, I liked it, Yes, I want it back. As a TV series and Yes, I would watch it. BIG TIME

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Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)

 

[Quagmire]

I wouldn't read anything into the mutiny since it was TNT enforced claptrap.

To me the books are nice side stories but the story is complete without them. The story of the station that is.

Joe's explanation of unfinished business is quite good. I would only add that while the episodes may not seem good enough to inspire this loyalty alot of us could see potential just screaming to get out. This is especially true with the unproduced scripts.

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Bus
"Authorities say the phony pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and increadibly foul mouth." Kent Brockman

 

[Jomar]

It's over two weeks since I last posted on this thread. In the meantime I have watched my tapes of Crusade and read the three unused scripts. I wanted to have another look at it after all the positive things everyone has been saying.

I am not a Gary Cole fan, and I have to admit that he spoiled the show for me because I never got to really care about what happened to him. However, I do like the rest of the cast, and some of the episodes were very good. I think the most interesting part is contained in the scripts which show where the show was heading. If by a miracle it is brought back then I hope JMS starts from scratch without being bugged by the network and does it his own way. That could be a great series.

------------------

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I am not a Gary Cole fan, and I have to admit that he spoiled the show for me because I never got to really care about what happened to him. However, I do like the rest of the cast, and some of the episodes were very good.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally, I don't think we were ever Supposed to like Captain Gideon. After all, Gary Cole has a history of playing unlikable but Capable characters. The people who appointed him said Gideon wasn't chosen because of his "warm fuzzy" personality, but for his willingness to do _Anything_ to get the job done.

They wanted someone ruthless. They got Gideon. It will be interesting to learn more about him when the series gets going again. (Hey, I'm taking a positive attitude) Just what has Gideon done in the past to make all those Senior officials so sure he IS a ruthless man??

------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[drakh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Personally, I don't think we were ever Supposed to like Captain Gideon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I certainly did. And I found him a lot more fun then either Sinclair or Sheridan.

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Jomar:

If by a miracle it is brought back then I hope JMS starts from scratch without being bugged by the network and does it his own way.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JMS has already made it as clear as possible that he doesn't "suffer fools gladly". If the SciFi channel signs him to write a series, they know perfectly well that he'll walk if an MBAdiots try messing with his stories.

He'll also insist on the same sort of contract he had with TNT that allowed him to pull the plug. Complete Creative Control.

The idiots at TNT just didn't believe anyone would walk away from that much money. They hadn't paid attention to JMS reputation. He's done it before on other shows. They messed with him, he did it again.

The Skiffy people know his history. Unless they hire a complete moron sometime in the future, nobody's going to mess with JMS.



------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Personally, I don't think we were ever Supposed to like Captain Gideon. After all, Gary Cole has a history of playing unlikable but Capable characters. The people who appointed him said Gideon wasn't chosen because of his "warm fuzzy" personality, but for his willingness to do _Anything_ to get the job done.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I liked him! Out of all the human commanding figures in B5 world I identified with Gideon the most. But then, I use to be an attorney so that may have something to do with it.

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"So where does the power come from to see the race to its end? It comes from within."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jomar:
If by a miracle it is brought back then I hope JMS starts from scratch without being bugged by the network and does it his own way. That could be a great series.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can buy that! If anything I suspect that's what we might see in B5LR. I doubt he'll recycle "Crusade" elements and put them in wholesale. They seem like fundamentally different storylines. But I wouldn't be surprised if jms foreshadows some of them, given enough time. Who knows.

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Joe Medina (neargrai@aol.com)

"...that which are, we are"

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Most modern audiences would instantly peg Gideon as a sympathetic character.

It's pretty obviously we're not supposed to trust him, though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You find someone who is Untrustworthy to be a "sympathetic" character.

Interesting.

But, I didn't see Gideon as untrustworthy. He'd always keep his Word. You just might not like his Methods when he did.




------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>You find someone who is Untrustworthy to be a "sympathetic" character.

Interesting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Londo did horrible things with his eyes wide open, including two revenge murders. Yet I find him not only sympathetic, but tragic.

Delenn ordered what became a genocidal war, and I find her sympathetic.

G'Kar dreamt killing all the Centauri and carving their bones into little flutes for Narn children to play, and I find him sympathetic.

Clearly the lead character in virtually any series is supposed to be someone the audience can identify with, to one degree or another. (Yes, even J.R. Ewing or Archie Bunker - pace Carroll O'Connor.) The few times someone has tried to do a series about an utterly unsympathetic character have usually been failures. Even villains need to have some redeeming characteristics, if people are going to invite them into their living rooms week after week.

So I don't think there is any doubt that we were supposed to like and root for Gideon. But at the same time he wasn't a cardboard "white hat" character. He had flaws and we needed to know to watch for them.

Regards,

Joe



------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[bakana]

I didn't find Gideon particularly Likeable. I did class him with the Good Guys. He's on the side of the angels, flaws and all.

I can handle watching someone who isn't very sympathetic. Besides, Gideon didn't Need sympathy. And certainly wouldn't Want it if he did.

As far as O'Connor's Archie Bunker, he struck a nerve in almost all of us. Anyone who claims not to know someone at least a Little Bit like Archie either has NO friends or is lying. Archie was "Everybigot" refined from Everyman. A work of Genius on O'Connor's part.

RIP Carrol O'Connor.

------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Personally, I don't think we were ever Supposed to like Captain Gideon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know about that. He's the main character, he's resourceful, tends to look out for the underdog, and often works against established authority. Most modern audiences would instantly peg Gideon as a sympathetic character.

It's pretty obviously we're not supposed to trust him, though. He's using tactics and resources most people wouldn't touch. Even his fellow soldiers call him ruthless or dangerous.

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Joe Medina (neargrai@aol.com)

"...that which are, we are"

 

[Quagmire]

I liked Gideon, partially because he wasn't a white hat. The only character in this universe who was a dudley do-right was Corwin which I thought made the shows more real and enjoyable.

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Bus
"Authorities say the phony pope can be recognized by his high-top sneakers and increadibly foul mouth." Kent Brockman