Origin of Minbari beliefs

[Galahad]

How does that imply "I found her" isn't referring to Catherine? Catherine definitely seems to have gone back in time to somewhere.

I think Telepath is saying that because sinclairt mentions Catherine.

JMS once said that Catherine's name in that block of text in the comic was a misprint... I believe he stated that the "her" that was found was Sakai.

I also think Telepath is getting confused with what Catherine said about Sinclair... not what jms has said about her.

Catherine pointed out that Sinclair would not be tied down to a desk job because he was a pilot at heart.

 

[Galahad]

An interesting quote from "In Valen's Name" I dug out at the Lurker's Guide:



(look here: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/comic/014.html)

That implies that Sinclair did not have children with Catherine, and that he has found someone else...
I could live with that, since the fate of Catherine Sakai has often bugged me. I simply could not imagine her in Ranger training. As JMS once said, she would not be nailed down on Minbar (or something like it). I think her fate in "City of Sorrows" was rather out of character.

And you should also know that To Dream in the City of Sorrows is the book that is considered closest to canon (at least up until any subsequent books). JMS even stated as much in the foreword.

 

[Sindatur]

I think Telepath is saying that because sinclairt mentions Catherine.

JMS once said that Catherine's name in that block of text in the comic was a misprint... I believe he stated that the "her" that was found was Sakai.

I also think Telepath is getting confused with what Catherine said about Sinclair... not what jms has said about her.

Catherine pointed out that Sinclair would not be tied down to a desk job because he was a pilot at heart.

I understand the confusion is because Catherine's name is mentioned earlier in who he misses, but, I see nothing that says mentioning those he missed have to be different than one he has found?

 

[Telepath]

JMS once said that Catherine's name in that block of text in the comic was a misprint... I believe he stated that the "her" that was found was Sakai.

Okay, that's fine with me

I also think Telepath is getting confused with what Catherine said about Sinclair... not what jms has said about her.

Catherine pointed out that Sinclair would not be tied down to a desk job because he was a pilot at heart.

Nope, I am definitely shure about this. Catherine (her job indicates it) is always on the road, and JMS stated somewhere (probably also a quotation I found on the Lurker's Guide, but can't remember where) before the release of City of Sorrows that they have split up (Cath / Jeff). Catherine is tied strongly to Sinclair in terms of emotion - she even asks him once in season 1, in a moment of hot temper, "what do you want?". I ... doubt that JMS used THAT question in his show without purpose. It's just a guess, but how Sakai is presented in season 1, she appeals to Sinclair's emotion, desires (shadow), while Delenn is the voice of reason / intellect / wisdom. If there would have been a similar situation in Sinclair's arc like the one Sheridan faces on Z'ha'dum, these preparations sure make a lot of sense. Sinclair and Cath have broken up every few years because they were so different and he was so duty-bound (what's the opposite? selfishness?). I don't think they would suddenly fit together perfectly.

 

[Elenopa]

JMS once said that Catherine's name in that block of text in the comic was a misprint... I believe he stated that the "her" that was found was Sakai.

I managed to find a reposting of JMS's post to confirm that.

[ Summary: "In Valen's Name, at the end where Delenn is watching a
recording by Valen, he mentions Catherine finding the recording,
as if she was not with him." ]

#: 29174 S7/Babylon 5 Novels
14-Apr-98 11:27:12
Sb: #29038-VALAN
Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI

It was a typo; that name shouldn't have been in the message, it slipped
past.
jms

 

[Lurker_Steve]

I was reading Volume 7 of the Babylon 5 scripts the other day, and lo and behold I come across a passage starting at the bottom of page 25 where JMS makes a connection between Minbari beliefs and the physical nature of the Vorlons. He notes that during Kosh's death scene, a tech notices an energy surge and describes it as a "non-localized phenomenon"--practically word-for-word for how Lennier describes the soul in "Passing Through Gethsemane".

When I read that passage, I thought "Ah-ha! My theory has been validated by the Great Maker himself!" I am more convinced now than ever that the Vorlons had a tremendous influence on Minbari beliefs.

 

[KoshFan]

I am more convinced now than ever that the Vorlons had a tremendous influence on Minbari beliefs.

In other news, sources indicate Lorien's rather old...

 

[AnlaShokGrey]

Okay, admittedly, I'm coming in a little late to this thread, but the messages on this page alone have me completely confused. Those of you speaking of "Catherine" as someone distinct from "Sakai"...do you actually mean "Carolyn"? Because Sakai's first name is "Catherine." While the original girlfriend from the pilot episode, played by Blaire Baron, was "Carolyn."

 

[raw_bean]

No-one's suggesting that Catherine is not Sakai, just discussing the fact that Valen leaves his "I've found her..." message and addresses it to 'Catherine' as though the 'her' he found isn't Catheriner Sakai, which has now been established as a typo, because it was her.

 

[dkone]

It's just a guess, but how Sakai is presented in season 1, she appeals to Sinclair's emotion, desires (shadow), while Delenn is the voice of reason / intellect / wisdom. If there would have been a similar situation in Sinclair's arc like the one Sheridan faces on Z'ha'dum, these preparations sure make a lot of sense. Sinclair and Cath have broken up every few years because they were so different and he was so duty-bound (what's the opposite? selfishness?). I don't think they would suddenly fit together perfectly.

It always seemed to me that JMS could have been laying the ground work for the same triangle confrontation between Delenn, Sinclair, and Catherine that we saw between Delenn, Sheridan, and Anna. A lot of the elements are there, including a Minibari ritual that doubles as a wedding in The Parliament of Dreams that could have foreshadowed a deeper relationship between Sinclair and Delenn. And as a surveyor, Catherine could have very easily flown over Z'ha'dum and been captured. But, of course, by the time Babylon Squared was written, JMS had other plans for Sinclair.

 

[Telepath]

Originally Posted by Telepath View Post
It's just a guess, but how Sakai is presented in season 1, she appeals to Sinclair's emotion, desires (shadow), while Delenn is the voice of reason / intellect / wisdom. If there would have been a similar situation in Sinclair's arc like the one Sheridan faces on Z'ha'dum, these preparations sure make a lot of sense. Sinclair and Cath have broken up every few years because they were so different and he was so duty-bound (what's the opposite? selfishness?). I don't think they would suddenly fit together perfectly.
It always seemed to me that JMS could have been laying the ground work for the same triangle confrontation between Delenn, Sinclair, and Catherine that we saw between Delenn, Sheridan, and Anna. A lot of the elements are there, including a Minibari ritual that doubles as a wedding in The Parliament of Dreams that could have foreshadowed a deeper relationship between Sinclair and Delenn. And as a surveyor, Catherine could have very easily flown over Z'ha'dum and been captured. But, of course, by the time Babylon Squared was written, JMS had other plans for Sinclair.

At the time I posted that, I lacked some information. It is certain that Sinclair would not have gone to Z'ha'dum at ALL - so I went too far with my earlier interpretation. I think that Sinclair was tied to the shadow arc via his Minbari heritage, while being connected to the growing darkness on earth with the loss of Sakai, who would have run into trouble with a megacorps. It's interesting to note that with Sheridan, it's vice versa - he's connected to the shadows on a personal level and to the earth resistance movement on the political scale.

 

[fisheggs]

:angel:TP, slight Nit-pick: Sinclair had NO Minbari heritage. Minbari had Human DNA after Sinclair, even though it was 1000 (or so) years before Sinclair was born.


And getting to the controversy of "Souls":angel:, I recall Delenn commented that "Great" Minbari souls seemed to be disappearing and seemed to be manifesting in Humans. It's suggested that the Triluminaries react to Sinclairs DNA, not his "Soul", in which case the Triluminary should react (by glowing) to most Humans, as they share more Human DNA than any hybred would after a 1000 years of interspecies mixing. :devil:

 

[Telepath]

I meant the Minbari cultural heritage, not a genetic heritage of some sort

 

[Truth_Seeker]

One of my favourite concept of B5 is Minbari religion and their idea of the Universe.My opinion about its origins is that JMS mixed some concepts of several Earth religions to create it.The most important of them are:

1.The idea that the Universe is aware is known as Pantheism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

2.Reincarnation is a main idea of the Eastern religions.

3.Valen-a Minbari not born of Minbari is partly similar to Christianity's idea for the birth of Jesus Christ.

 

[hypatia]

Interesting points, Truth Seeker. Those certainly were major aspects of the Minbari religion. Perhaps even the most important three.

I had to notice this bit in the Wikipedia article you gave the url to:

In 1785 a major controversy began between Friedrich Jacobi and Moses Mendelssohn, which eventually involved many important people of the time. Jacobi claimed that Lessing's pantheism was materialistic in that it thought of all Nature and God as one extended substance. For Jacobi, this was the result of the Enlightenment's devotion to reason and it would lead to atheism. Mendelssohn disagreed by asserting that pantheism was the same as theism.

Pantheism, considering all of nature as god, involved a devotion to reason and would lead to atheism?

GKE would have a feild day with that one.

Pantheism, it's believing in some kind of a god. The only similarity to atheism it has is the last 6 letters in the name.

In any event, I always liked the idea in B5 of "the universe trying to figure itself out". Not that it was a new idea to me, but I had no idea where I'd heard it before. Sounds like it was in some class somewhere that mentioned pantheism.

 

[Truth_Seeker]

I also found out about this religious movement years after I watched the show.I've always liked the idea because to be honest I'm a man of science and I've never been influenced by any religion in particular but it is the most logical explanation of the world around us that I have heard so far.I don't mean that the other religions are not right.It's just an opinion by a person who rarely visits a church.