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**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
It's strange that the nebula is a different color.
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- Thread starter Jomar
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Elenopa
Regular
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AndrewSwallow:
Note: Since Epsilon 3 does not have a moon it cannot have any L points.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, you sound like you know what you are talking about
For someone who hasn't heard of this term; what is an L point?
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Ranger Elenopa
"You can get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you can with just a kind word"
Note: Since Epsilon 3 does not have a moon it cannot have any L points.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, you sound like you know what you are talking about
For someone who hasn't heard of this term; what is an L point?
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Ranger Elenopa
"You can get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you can with just a kind word"
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Note: Since Epsilon 3 does not have a moon it cannot have any L points.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It has a star and therefore at least one set of Lagrange points -- albeit too far for Babylon 5 to be there. I would suspect that the station was built in the L4 or L5 point of Epsilon 3 and its moon.
This guess is supported by the fact that Babylon 5 occasionally enters the planet's shadow -- and is hence orbiting the planet together with its moon. Therefore the planet must have a moon, no matter how small or insignificant.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>For someone who hasn't heard of this term; what is an L point?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Here is a brief explanation about Lagrange points -- not an immensely thorough one, but the first I found on my quick search. The second one should be available over here.
A good enough definition for Lagrange points should be: points in the vicinity of two orbiting masses where a third, smaller mass can orbit at a fixed distance from the larger masses.
Lagrange points provide opportunities for maintaining position and economical manouvering. They are good locations for a space station -- which needs to accept docking ships, exchange passengers, fuel and cargo.
As for stability: while L1-L3 are unstable, L4 and L5 are relatively stable (if you go off the point itself, you will start orbiting it). For a space station with nuclear reactors and manouvering engines, they are all stable enough.
[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited January 12, 2002).]
It has a star and therefore at least one set of Lagrange points -- albeit too far for Babylon 5 to be there. I would suspect that the station was built in the L4 or L5 point of Epsilon 3 and its moon.
This guess is supported by the fact that Babylon 5 occasionally enters the planet's shadow -- and is hence orbiting the planet together with its moon. Therefore the planet must have a moon, no matter how small or insignificant.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>For someone who hasn't heard of this term; what is an L point?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Here is a brief explanation about Lagrange points -- not an immensely thorough one, but the first I found on my quick search. The second one should be available over here.
A good enough definition for Lagrange points should be: points in the vicinity of two orbiting masses where a third, smaller mass can orbit at a fixed distance from the larger masses.
Lagrange points provide opportunities for maintaining position and economical manouvering. They are good locations for a space station -- which needs to accept docking ships, exchange passengers, fuel and cargo.
As for stability: while L1-L3 are unstable, L4 and L5 are relatively stable (if you go off the point itself, you will start orbiting it). For a space station with nuclear reactors and manouvering engines, they are all stable enough.
[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited January 12, 2002).]
Shaal Mayan
Regular
Beautiful Pics
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Elenopa
Regular
Lennier,
You learnt more in temple that just how to win at poker.
Thanks for the references. I shall have to do some reading because this sounds fascinating.
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Ranger Elenopa
"You can get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you can with just a kind word"
You learnt more in temple that just how to win at poker.
Thanks for the references. I shall have to do some reading because this sounds fascinating.
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Ranger Elenopa
"You can get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you can with just a kind word"
Short version of LaGrange points.
They are places where the gravitational pull of two stellar bodies (with one orbiting the other, ie, a moon & planet), are in Balance.
What happens at that point is that any relatively Small body (a Space Station, for instance) tends to Stay in that orbit unless something pushes it out.
It becomes fixed in that orbit between the two and always stays a fixed distance either in front of or behind the smaller body (the Moon).
There are several spots like that around a planet with a single moon.
Directly between the two.
Not a good choice, if I remember right.
Two in an orbit inside the moon's orbit, one Leading the moon and one Following it, both at the same distance.
These are the two most Stable points because the gravitational forces cancel by pulling in opposite directions creating the greatest stability.
These are the best places for space stations.
Then, if I remember correctly, there are a couple on a straight line Through the Center of the two bodies, but on the Far sides of each.
Also not too good a choice for placing a station.
The points are named after the astronomer/mathematican who first figured it out.
There are also LaGrange points created by Planets orbiting the Sun, but they are not too useful, because the gravity is pretty weak that far from sun and planet.
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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
They are places where the gravitational pull of two stellar bodies (with one orbiting the other, ie, a moon & planet), are in Balance.
What happens at that point is that any relatively Small body (a Space Station, for instance) tends to Stay in that orbit unless something pushes it out.
It becomes fixed in that orbit between the two and always stays a fixed distance either in front of or behind the smaller body (the Moon).
There are several spots like that around a planet with a single moon.
Directly between the two.
Not a good choice, if I remember right.
Two in an orbit inside the moon's orbit, one Leading the moon and one Following it, both at the same distance.
These are the two most Stable points because the gravitational forces cancel by pulling in opposite directions creating the greatest stability.
These are the best places for space stations.
Then, if I remember correctly, there are a couple on a straight line Through the Center of the two bodies, but on the Far sides of each.
Also not too good a choice for placing a station.
The points are named after the astronomer/mathematican who first figured it out.
There are also LaGrange points created by Planets orbiting the Sun, but they are not too useful, because the gravity is pretty weak that far from sun and planet.
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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
Elenopa
Regular
Thanks for the info. I had never heard of L points, but I can see how useful they can be.
So, B5 is likely to be situated at an L point, and so may the jumpgate. The next question is, will the station always remain stationary within the L point? With this I mean, will the axis of the station always be parrallel with the surface of the planet?
Am I making sense?
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Ranger Elenopa
"You can get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you can with just a kind word"
So, B5 is likely to be situated at an L point, and so may the jumpgate. The next question is, will the station always remain stationary within the L point? With this I mean, will the axis of the station always be parrallel with the surface of the planet?
Am I making sense?
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Ranger Elenopa
"You can get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you can with just a kind word"
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
That would depend on needs and requirements. Given that the station has enough engine power and fuel to stay aligned in the best possible direction, they would do it.
They need to fire the smaller manouvering engines quite often anyway, so why not keep the station aligned for ease of navigation?
Having the docking bay pointed "down" would be a bad idea. Keeping it parallel to their orbit would be better. If something goes wrong, nobody is going to hit the planet.
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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
They need to fire the smaller manouvering engines quite often anyway, so why not keep the station aligned for ease of navigation?
Having the docking bay pointed "down" would be a bad idea. Keeping it parallel to their orbit would be better. If something goes wrong, nobody is going to hit the planet.
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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Having the docking bay pointed "down" would be a bad idea. Keeping it parallel to their orbit would be better. If something goes wrong, nobody is going to hit the planet.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Keeping the docking bay oriented toward the Jumpgate is the best solution.
That way incoming ships don't have to do much manouvering.
The more "backing and filling" they have to do to get parked, the more likely there are to be "fender benders".
And, even if the bay were pointed "down" toward the planet, it would take a Deliberate Effort to hit the ground, so that isn't a consideration.
Anyone "jumping off" B5 without benefit of an Engine would just tend to orbit the Station, just as we saw a couple times when people dumped Corpses out the nearest airlock to get rid of them.
Plus, somebody feeling suicidal wouldn't really Care which way the docking bay is pointed.
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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Keeping the docking bay oriented toward the Jumpgate is the best solution.
That way incoming ships don't have to do much manouvering.
The more "backing and filling" they have to do to get parked, the more likely there are to be "fender benders".
And, even if the bay were pointed "down" toward the planet, it would take a Deliberate Effort to hit the ground, so that isn't a consideration.
Anyone "jumping off" B5 without benefit of an Engine would just tend to orbit the Station, just as we saw a couple times when people dumped Corpses out the nearest airlock to get rid of them.
Plus, somebody feeling suicidal wouldn't really Care which way the docking bay is pointed.
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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
Elenopa
Regular
OK, let me see if I've got this right.
Babylon 5 and the jumpgate are both at L points, and so are orbiting Epsilon 3 at the same rate. Because of this, they will keep the same positions relative to each other, and so, B5 will always be pointing in the same direction.
Assuming all this, then Epsilon 3 should be in the picture that started this whole discussion.
I don't know if you will agree with me Bakana, but this has been a fascinating thread so far. Thank you for the debate, and thank you Lennier for your contribution.
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Ranger Elenopa
"You can get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you can with just a kind word"
Babylon 5 and the jumpgate are both at L points, and so are orbiting Epsilon 3 at the same rate. Because of this, they will keep the same positions relative to each other, and so, B5 will always be pointing in the same direction.
Assuming all this, then Epsilon 3 should be in the picture that started this whole discussion.
I don't know if you will agree with me Bakana, but this has been a fascinating thread so far. Thank you for the debate, and thank you Lennier for your contribution.
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Ranger Elenopa
"You can get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you can with just a kind word"
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Babylon 5 and the jumpgate are both at L points, and so are orbiting Epsilon 3 at the same rate. Because of this, they will keep the same positions relative to each other, and so, B5 will always be pointing in the same direction.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
With the help of a bit of regular manouvering to keep both aligned... yes. Would seem quite logical, at least for me. There may be other options, but this is one of the best.
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As for the docking bay pointing towards the planet thing... well, if somebody exits the docking bay and accidentally stomps on the throttle, it would take them very close to the planet, which is a situation nobody wants to create.
[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited January 14, 2002).]
With the help of a bit of regular manouvering to keep both aligned... yes. Would seem quite logical, at least for me. There may be other options, but this is one of the best.
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As for the docking bay pointing towards the planet thing... well, if somebody exits the docking bay and accidentally stomps on the throttle, it would take them very close to the planet, which is a situation nobody wants to create.
[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited January 14, 2002).]
No, the Jumpgate is NOT orbiting in an L point.
Or, if it is, it's not a Planetary L point.
The Jumpgate is much further out from the Sun for a number of very good reasons.
Safety: If the thing Blows Up, it's far enough away that the blast won't harm teh station.
Caution of a different sort: having the gate several hours travel away from the station allows Ivanova lots of time to look over incoming ships and make sure they are Friendly.
It also allows a lot of the paperwork to be handled "long distance" so that, by the time a ship docks, all the formalities are finished except for customs checks.
The Jump Point itself gives off such a strong energy pulse when it opens and closes that the Jumpgate needs to be a fair distance from the station so the pulse doesn't fry any of the station's electronics.
Finally, placing the jumpgate further away from the Sun gives it a very Long orbital period around that sun.
This makes it easier for ships coming in from elsewhere to get a good idea just Where in the system they are going to emerge.
The navigator can find B5 a lot easier when the ship comes out of the gate because the orbital position doesn't change very fast.
Navigator:
"OK, we came out of the jumpgate right about Here, the Planet ought to be right over There, and Babylon 5 should be right next to the Planet. Yep, there it is! Am I GOOD or What?"
------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
Or, if it is, it's not a Planetary L point.
The Jumpgate is much further out from the Sun for a number of very good reasons.
Safety: If the thing Blows Up, it's far enough away that the blast won't harm teh station.
Caution of a different sort: having the gate several hours travel away from the station allows Ivanova lots of time to look over incoming ships and make sure they are Friendly.
It also allows a lot of the paperwork to be handled "long distance" so that, by the time a ship docks, all the formalities are finished except for customs checks.
The Jump Point itself gives off such a strong energy pulse when it opens and closes that the Jumpgate needs to be a fair distance from the station so the pulse doesn't fry any of the station's electronics.
Finally, placing the jumpgate further away from the Sun gives it a very Long orbital period around that sun.
This makes it easier for ships coming in from elsewhere to get a good idea just Where in the system they are going to emerge.
The navigator can find B5 a lot easier when the ship comes out of the gate because the orbital position doesn't change very fast.
Navigator:
"OK, we came out of the jumpgate right about Here, the Planet ought to be right over There, and Babylon 5 should be right next to the Planet. Yep, there it is! Am I GOOD or What?"
------------------
Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
