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Please can someone help me.....

T

The_One

Regular
Hi I'm relatively new here, and to the B5 online community. Now a few days back I heard of 3 unfilmed Crusade scripts. Now trust me, I've scored the internet and the only site to ever have them, I believe was Bookface.com, but unfortunately they're shut down
frown.gif


I've spent, probably about 5 hours searching for the scripts. Anyway, my search has lead me here. Now I hope that someone here could PLEASE help me somehow.

Now I'm a pretty big B5 fan here, I have all B5 tapes, Crusade tapes, and much merchandise. But I'm being deprived of the chance to read these scripts. This is my last, best hope to get them. PLEASE could someone send them to me at the.one@tgu.org.uk or show me a site that has them. Imagine if you were in my position. I hope someone can help me.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can.

The One
 
Sorry to disappoint you, but we've had long discussions about the illegality of distributing said scripts.

It violates copyright law to do so, and JMS in particular has asked that it stop to prevent him from having to pursue legal action.

Imagine if you were in his position. I hope you will honor his wishes, but you will probably find someone on the web to help you if you decide you would rather read the scripts.

Ro

------------------
I have no surviving
enemies. At all.

Galen
 
frown.gif
That's really upset me now. I suppose you all have the scripts but aren't in a postion to give them to me. I don't think they are available on the web, I spent like 5 hours looking. This was my last, best hope......It has failed.
frown.gif


The One
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Technomage Roanna:
Sorry to disappoint you, but we've had long discussions about the illegality of distributing said scripts.

It violates copyright law to do so, and JMS in particular has asked that it stop to prevent him from having to pursue legal action.

Imagine if you were in his position. I hope you will honor his wishes, but you will probably find someone on the web to help you if you decide you would rather read the scripts.

Ro

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These were distributed freely for a long time, and posted on some web site for a long time as well. Once the show was canned and production was halted, many of those prints were taken off the internet.

Although I appreciate JmS's position (if that is indeed his position) he allowed them posted to the public domain in the first place, a little late to cry about it now. I believe he is asking folks not to post them so that anyone can grab them. I do not believe he is asking us not to send them to our buds if we already have them.

I have them printed, but am not sure if I currently have them on a computer. Someone sent them to me from this board dear.

If I can locate them, I will post a message to that effect tonight. I will only send them via e-mail individually. I will not post them on any board as that would be illegal at this point in time. And if not illegal, certainly wrong in the face of JmS's position on this matter.


------------------
Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)

[This message has been edited by GideonsMine (edited August 20, 2001).]
 
Actually, no, I haven't read the scripts either. I didn't get to Bookface quick enough. :) It is frustrating when other people were able to read them and have mentioned points in discussion, it makes me wish I'd got there in time.

I did purchase a copy of Fiona Avery's Value Judgements script at a convention, so I do have one of the unproduced scripts, but neither JMS one.

I'm sorry you're upset, but the scripts were never intended by JMS to be openly distributed. They were on a protected site that some people circumvented the security of so they could distribute the script.

There has been a long, drawn out discussion of copyright on another thread, but the short version is that no authorized versions of the scripts are available for email or internet distribution.

Sorry to share the bad news.

Ro

------------------
I have no surviving
enemies. At all.

Galen
 
JMS position, from JMS News


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
9a) A subset of 9 and a request...I keep seeing posts from people who are freely exchanging textfiles containing the Crusade scripts that were posted on bookface.com. To those folks, the rest of you can move on...I don't think you've stopped to realize that what you're passing around so freely is my
property. It's not taking from WB, or TNT, it's taking from *me*. I own the scripts that I write, under the Writers Guild Separation of Rights provision. I allowed Bookface to put them up because they gave me assurances that they could not easily or well be pirated. (They clearly did not anticipate the
ingenuity of some folks.) You are infringing on my rights, my copyright, my ownership, and causing me to regret my decision to let folks see them, such that I may never do this again because it greatly reduces my ability to ever
sell them or publish them in book form in future. You have, in effect, stolen
my property and are freely distributing same.

That it's not available elsewhere is not the issue; we all want things we can't have, or which are not currently available. I'm asking you politely, as the guy who *made* this show
and *wrote* those scripts (and *owns* those scripts) for you to stop. If it doesn't stop, I'm going to have to start taking action against those doing this. (I've been giving my attorneys quite a workout lately, inclusive of making sure that a certain individual who has been fabricating stuff about me for six years on the unmoderated group...will do so no longer.) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


------------------
I have no surviving
enemies. At all.


Galen

[This message has been edited by Technomage Roanna (edited August 20, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Technomage Roanna:
Actually, no, I haven't read the scripts either. I didn't get to Bookface quick enough. :) It is frustrating when other people were able to read them and have mentioned points in discussion, it makes me wish I'd got there in time.

I did purchase a copy of Fiona Avery's Value Judgements script at a convention, so I do have one of the unproduced scripts, but neither JMS one.

I'm sorry you're upset, but the scripts were never intended by JMS to be openly distributed. They were on a protected site that some people circumvented the security of so they could distribute the script.

There has been a long, drawn out discussion of copyright on another thread, but the short version is that no authorized versions of the scripts are available for email or internet distribution.

Sorry to share the bad news.

Ro

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


When it is posted on a site such as Bookface, it is in the public domain. I appreciate his argument, but would be difficult to sue and maintain since sending an email to someone is not illegal.

I appreciate his position though and oddly I believe I may have deleted them for that purpose.

I did enjoy reading them though.


------------------
Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)

[This message has been edited by GideonsMine (edited August 20, 2001).]
 
So, you're saying that once someone else has broken the law, you can enjoy the stolen goods with a clear conscience?

Ro

------------------
I have no surviving
enemies. At all.

Galen
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Technomage Roanna:
So, you're saying that once someone else has broken the law, you can enjoy the stolen goods with a clear conscience?

Ro

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No, I read the entire post of yours and equalled it to US copyright law.

Please read the edited edition of my prior post.

The problem is that it was within the public domain and he could only sue the original downloadees. He cannot stop it from being emailed as that is not illegal.

He can only hope that we will be honest and forthright enough to accept his request. Which I will from this point even if I find him. After all, he holds the key to Crusade and I would not want him thinking I would not abide by his wishes or requests. They are simple enough and he has a point.

Sorry to be pigheaded, i have been around lawyers too long.




------------------
Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Technomage Roanna:
So, you're saying that once someone else has broken the law, you can enjoy the stolen goods with a clear conscience?

Ro

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With a clear conscience? No actually, I cannot. Even though I understand the law, I cannot break his request.




------------------
Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)
 
There was something on Bookface saying that the material present was being presented for viewing only, not copying.

Think of it this way ... someone asks you if they can borrow your car for a quick spin around the block. You say, Yes, you can borrow my car for a single trip around the block to be completed within a few minutes." The person then drives off with your car. You finally track him down three years later after he has put 150,000 miles on it and you accuse him of theft. He responds, "Hey, he gave me permission to drive it around the block ... once I had permission to drive it, I had permission to do whatever I wanted with it."

Permission to view the scripts was granted only for viewing. Not for copying. JMS only granted the right for the scripts to be viewed, not copied. Anything done with those scripts beyond viewing them was theft.

Just for a second, though, forget the friggin' law. Ignore the legal arguments. Ignore intellectual property law. Pay attention to morality and gratitude.

JMS went through (h e double hockey stick) to make B5/Crusade/Rangers. He worked hard and put a supernatural amount of energy into creating the best science fiction for televison America has ever created. He brought a lot of joy and entertainment to a lot of people, you and I included if we are still reading these message boards.

He clearly stated his desire that people NOT COPY OR FURTHER DISTRIBUTE THOSE SCRIPTS. The moral thing is to respect his wishes regardless of the law. Show him respect and gratitude for all he has done to make B5 what it is today by respecting his wishes, no questions asked.

I'll stop my preaching now. I hate doing it. Unfortunately, I hate the fact that it seems to be necessary for people to hear words like this every so often.

-John

------------------
The views expressed in this posting do not reflect in a mirror.
 
Just out of interest, what can we actually do with the scripts if we did have them? Exactly, nothing. It's exactly like reading them off bookface isn't it? I mean, we're still reading them, does it really matter if we have a hard copy? There is no harm in having them I believe, or sharing them. But it is his wish, and we must honour it
smile.gif
 
I can go along with the argument that copying, instead of just reading, the scripts from Bookface.com would've been a violation.

But how would that apply to a reader taking notes as he/she read them? That's be considered fair use, wouldn't it?

------------------
Joe Medina (neargrai@aol.com)

"...that which are, we are"
 
JMS is certainly lucky to have fans like this. If Rick Berman would ask the same thing, those scripts would be in the hands of everyone and their mothers.

------------------
"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darquin:
But how would that apply to a reader taking notes as he/she read them? That's be considered fair use, wouldn't it?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I would guess that notes would indeed fall under the fair use provision of the law (experts, anyone?).

Ro



------------------
I have no surviving
enemies. At all.

Galen
 
Bookface.com was a commercial site rather than a non-commercial one. Every time you read a book on that site, a royalty was paid to JMS per his contract with Bookface. That the medium is the Internet rather than a paper book doesn't remove the copyright protection that is afforded all written works. Crusade scripts were never put in public domain.

Making a copy of a script or a book on-line at a site such as Bookface.com is the equivalent of owning a book and copying the entire thing for someone.

It was never OK to make a copy of the scripts on Bookface.com or distribute them to friends. The legal notice you probably clicked through on Bookface.com actually prohibited that. Then they set up a complex technical mechanism to attempt to inhibit those among us prone to dubious behavior from taking illegal actions (much as you would lock your door). Unfortunately there are always burglers who break the window and then give the TV they took to their neighbor.

Best,
Alyson


------------------


[This message has been edited by ala (edited August 20, 2001).]
 
Yeah, Bookface was just one of many internet sites that couldn't quite figure out how to make a profit offering a web-based service, and which went belly-up. Pity, but that's life.

Regards,

Joe

------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>...couldn't quite figure out how to make a profit offering a web-based service, and which went belly-up. Pity, but that's life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, at least there's a brighter side to it - hopefully other sites learned from what happened to BookFace and future attampts will work better...

--------

Personally I neither have nor have read the Crusade scripts - and don't intend to, unless JMS chooses to makes them available again (either as Crusade episodes or via other means) which I hope he some day will do.

But I did read two of his short stories before learning that they were not intended for public distribution. I didn't come to think that their public availability severely harms his possibility of publishing them anywhere.

As for the B5 bloopers (material that's likely to never get officially published) I have to admit that I considered what to do for a long time... whether me viewing them would somehow hurt someone's possibilities or not. After concluding that at the very worst they would increase my respect for the actors, I couldn't resist the temptation and downloaded the bloopers.

Consequently I can't really point to myself as an example... but I still think that even if given a possibility, I still wouldn't read the scripts. Mostly out of respect for JMS. I hope they get published some day.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited August 20, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
Yeah, Bookface was just one of many internet sites that couldn't quite figure out how to make a profit offering a web-based service, and which went belly-up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No... They had a decent business model they were just getting started with - licencing their reader technology to other sites. The problem was that the dotcom crash made their investors pull out.

------------------
You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I would guess that notes would indeed fall under the fair use provision of the law (experts, anyone?).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Essentially, yes. Ideas cannot be copyrighted, only the expresion of those ideas in a fixed form, in this case, a script.

As I understand it, you can post, freely exchange, etc. a synopsis of a script. The script itself is protected.

And jms asked us to stop. He's pretty much always been straight with us. I figure I owe him that much.
smile.gif


------------------
"We are all Kosh."
 
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