Regular TV Movies or a Series?

[bakana]

I think it might depend on how some of the movie experiments being done lately work out.

The Horatio Hornblower movies come to mind.

While related, they don't really constitute a "miniseries" as such. But, they seemed to be well received.

Some of the other cable channels have also been experimenting in this area.

I'd like to see more of this thing done. Let the Story determine the length of the presentation instead of demanding that only 5 year or 7 year or X Episodes be allowed.

Sometimes, a good story only needs an hour, sometimes 4 hours, sometimes 5 years.

There should be room for all the good stories.

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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[hypatia]

The sort-of-recent miniseries "Pride and Prejudice" did wonderfully for the network
A andE, I think. But the recent miniseries, like that awful one NBC broadcast recently, have been big failures, I think.

Shogun probably blew the ratings off the map back then. So it seems more that miniseries come and miniseries go. Networks are still making them (or were until recently) at least.

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

 

[Modane]

I want a series. Not a mini-series.

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No one here is exactly what he appears.
Babylon 5
G'Kar - Andreas Katsulas

 

[Jomar]

When mini-series were in their prime, VCR's were not. Of course a few people had them but generally speaking you had to plan to be home for 3 or 4 nights in a row for 2 hours a night to catch the full mini-series. Later people began taping them and watching at their leisure. It seemed like a good idea but who has time to sit down and watch 6 hours of tv at a sitting. A case in point is Dune. I sat and watched and I also taped. I have never looked at the tape. I enjoyed the show but not enought to sit myself infront of the television for 6 hours.

Judging by myself it would only be a very special event that would keep me watching two or three nights in a row.

A few tv movies 2 hours in length would be fine with me. However, I would much rather have a 22-week per year series. You can tell the story so much better.

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[Joseph DeMartino]

Both Pride & Prejudice (which was execllent, I'm looking forward to the new & improved widescreen special edition on DVD) and Horatio Hornblower are imports from the U.K. where between the BBC and other factors, the television business is very different. And the Hornblower films, while they work best when watched in sequence, can be watched independently.

The forces that killed the golden age of the 12 and 15 hour, five or six-night, network mini-series (behemoths like Roots, Shogun and The Winds of War) were the fragmenation of the audience (with advent of the VCR, cable and later satellite television) and changing demographics.

Those same forces make smaller mini-series (4 to 6 hours, two-night affairs) both affordable and attractive to relatively small niche broadcasters like A&E, and Sci-Fi and even, from time to time, to the TNTs and NBCs of the world. In effect these are really long TV movies shown in two parts - not something you have to devoted a week of your life to.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[hypatia]

I much prefer to tape miniseries. I never watch them all at once, but I'll put the tape back on the shelf for the next night of up to 2 hours of it. This is great because when you edit out the commericials, miniseries REALLY get noticably shorter!

Joe, as always, that's really interesting. Roots and Shogun I saw and loved. But if they were on today for the first time, I'd tape them. That's not as good in the ratings, is it? I hate to think I helped elimintate a very good art form. And yea, Pride and Prejudice and Hornblower are both from England, aren't they? Is it safe to assume their ratings system is different from ours? Or is it their economy? Just curious.

I hope, too, that Rangers (AND Crusade, if possible) come back as series. I guess I'd just say, I'll take what I can get. Scifi did great with Dune. Maybe they'll try it again for JMS if they don't want to commit to an entire series. Maybe not, time will tell.

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

 

[Kribu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hypatia:
And yea, Pride and Prejudice and Hornblower are both from England, aren't they? Is it safe to assume their ratings system is different from ours? Or is it their economy? Just curious.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A few guesses from me - I don't know the facts and may be quite off in my assumptions so it's just speculation.

I don't think that the ratings matter *quite* as much as they do in the US. I am not sure just how the BBC is funded but I'm fairly certain that - as is the case with most "national" TV networks in Europe - their funding is not entirely dependent on advertising.

Usually, the money to public networks comes either directly from the state, from people paying for their TV-licenses, or it's a combination that includes some advertising as well.

Therefore it would be a little easier to do, at least occasionally, some stuff that wouldn't necessarily bring in huge ratings. (As an aside - I wonder what the ratings were for something like, say, Ghormenghast? I'd say it was a daring mini-series, not likely to appeal to everyone, and an expensive one at that.)

You also have to keep in mind that there aren't quite as many TV networks/stations vying for the viewers in Britain (although with cable and sky networks, the number is increasing) than there are in the US. At the same time, the population is still large enough - and with fewer stations, every station/every show has the chance to attract a relatively good number of viewers.

Another factor for the BBC could be that they can be fairly sure that most of what they produce - if it's quality stuff, and it usually is - can be sold to other countries. It seems that virtually every country in Europe buys a *lot* of BBC miniseries - and they can sell to several US networks as mentioned, to Australia and well, more or less anywhere.

Back to the original topic - I'd prefer a series.

For the simple reason that a series would last longer and there would be more of it than is possible with a mini-series.

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"It's animal magnetism. What can I say?"
- G'Kar, A Tragedy of Telepaths

 

[SataiDelenn]

When Kenneth Johnson created V back in the mid eighties, his original plan was to do a couple of mini-series a year, and he apparently (from memory) had no intention of going to a series - that was Warner Brothers' want, not his.

There have also been rumours on and off of certain Star Trek series returning to the screen as two hour movies of the week every now and again (esp with DS9 - though recent reports claim most of the cast are no longer interested, thus the rumour the next feature after Nemesis will be with Voyager).

I was wondering... would people prefer a series, or regular 'movies of the week' for Babylon 5 Legend of the Rangers? Any why.

Personally... I'm not sure. I'd love a series, because there just seems so much you can do with it, and in conjunction with the series, a couple of MOTW featuring the guys left behind on Babylon 5 after Sheridan, Delenn and the original characters left.

MOTW's would be an interesting way to do Rangers. I hope they don't go that way, but if they had to I'd be just as happy to watch.

A series of mini-series would be interesting. The original story told in V was in my opinion pretty good, and very well fleshed out.

I've just been thinking, we are all so focused on there being a series, but there are other ways for the visual story to be told!

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Sheridan: "It's... damn inconvienient!"
Delenn: "The truth often is."

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

V was done at a time when mini-series were doing well for the networks. There was a brief window during the 70s and 80s when the audience distribution, costs and ratings all favored such projects. But the window slammed shut pretty darned fast. Truly stand-alone TV movies can bring back popular characters from time to time (Columbo and Murder She Wrote are examples) but for most projects you can only go back to the well so many times.

A series of connected TV movies would be neither fish-nor-fowl, not really a self-contained story - and therefore less likely to please people who aren't regular fans of a show - and not a series either. They would also probably be tougher for the studio to sell for repeated runs later.

Besides, most "reunion" TV movies that exist only as rating stunts and have no purpose beyond reuniting the actors and appealing to audience nostalgia - frankly s*ck.

That's why I never thought the idea of completing the Crusade story as a series of TV movies made any sense. Economically it would be a very risky venture for Warner Bros.

I hope that Rangers either spawns a series or doesn't, just as I hope Crusade returns as a series or doesn't. In this case I'd rather have no bread at all than half a loaf.

But that's just me. YMMV.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[Dean Marshall]

As a possible continuing crew memeber of the Liandra, I'd highly prefer a series. Mini series is great short work but everyone who ain't Mel Gibson and the like want to find a series. Steady cash. Hot Chicks...But that's all purely an actors perspective...!

BTW, we, the crew, saw the movie Friday past.
You guys and gals are in for a f**kin' treat! I was trapped like a child in front of a family magician. I forgot that there were actors or even people I knew. All aspects of the film made me proud to be involved. I'm biased I know. I fell in love. Hope you folks do too.

Dean

"bb"

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edit: we saw the movie Monday past. Cheap drugs I'm losing days.


[This message has been edited by Dean Marshall (edited August 30, 2001).]

 

[SataiDelenn]

Thank you, Joe.

I had often wondered why there were so few mini-series these days. I was not aware of the window, and merely thought it was a lack of interest. Of course, I should have been more aware that 'if it won't sell, it won't air.'

You also add greater understanding to my hope for a series rather than anything else. I hadn't considered the points you presented. Thanks for that.

I wonder, would JMS go to a series of MOTW's if that was the only way they would allow him to tell his story, or would he take your approach and leave To Live And Die In Starlight as a one off television film, added to the already successful line of other B5 television movies?

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Sheridan: "It's... damn inconvienient!"
Delenn: "The truth often is."

[This message has been edited by SataiDelenn (edited August 29, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by SataiDelenn (edited August 29, 2001).]

 

[bakana]

I think it's safe to say that most of us here would Vastly prefer a series.

Or TWO. We want Crusade back, also.

It's like Chocolate or Ice Cream.
An occasional treat is nice.

A steady supply is Better!

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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[Kribu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dean Marshall:
BTW, we, the crew, saw the movie Friday past.
You guys and gals are in for a f**kin' treat!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You just love to tease us, don't you?

I mean, most of the people here have to wait for at least five months before they get the chance to see it... the rest of us who don't live in the US have to wait even longer... aarrrgghhh!!!!

But it does sound great. As if I expected to hear anything else.

And I hope that a series follows... for your sake as well as ours.

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"It's animal magnetism. What can I say?"
- G'Kar, A Tragedy of Telepaths

 

[Delbert]

Thanks for the good news on the movie, Dean! Now we just have to wait to see it, when we can get just as enthusiastic about its undoubted excellence!

Couple of things on British TV:
The BBC is funded from the TV licence fee, from sales of its productions and also from money raised by its BBC Worldwide merchandising arm. Worldwide is a seperate entity to the production arm (which explains why Worldwide have made a mint out of Doctor Who but Production don't seem to want to touch it!)

Both the independent TV companies and the BBC are very interested in ratings. in fact, the head of ITV (the main terrestrial independent network) recently accused the BBC of being too interested in ratings, and thereby neglecting its public service broadcasting requirements. The independents are interested in ratings because that influences who will advertise alongside each programme and how much they can be charged. The BBC is interested in ratings because without good ratings they lose a part of their justification for existing.

Prestige productions like Pride and Prejudice and Walking With Dinosaurs tend to be co-productions, frequently with US TV companies. This spreads the risk and the cost and also includes a certain amount of presales, rather than having to market the series later.

British TV drama tends to be short-run (6-10 episodes), or soaps running anything from 2-5 times a week, interspersed with TV movies like Hornblower or Sharpe, which are often made in batches but are essentially standalone stories, like the original novels.

To return to the original question

I would prefer a series for B5LR. However, if the story were better served by a miniseries, then I'd rather see it that way. For example, Sky have made and shown a TV movie called The Sight about a man (Andrew McCarthy) who discovers that he can see the dead and that he has an obligation to help them. Superbly directed (by Paul Anderson) and very well played, the telemovie looked great, was involving and was well paced, and had a stunner of an ending followed by a "To be continued". (See it if you can - NBC was, I think, the US partner in the production). Yes, this was the pilot to a series, but I think that a series would have a hard problem maintaining the style and the pacing with the appropriate development of the background plot, so I would rather see a series of linked TV movies. That's probably totally unclear, but some of you may understand what I'm driving at

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[David Frazer]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Delbert:

British TV drama tends to be short-run (6-10 episodes), or soaps running anything from 2-5 times a week, interspersed with TV movies like Hornblower or Sharpe, which are often made in batches but are essentially standalone stories, like the original novels.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was going to say much the same thing. In Britain, something like Pride and Prejudice is considered a series, not a mini-series.

It occurs to me that jms might have been happier if he hadn't needed to produce 22 episodes of B5 every year, especially as in season 4 (IIRC) he wrote all 22 himself. Over here it's normal for a series to be written entirely by one person.

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[Catheryn]

Like Satai Delenn and everyone else, I'd prefer a regular series... though it would be nice if there was the chance it would extend beyond the five year mark - IF the story didn't suffer for it.

But, I have to admit, this thread made me think.

I was fourteen when V first aired in Australia, and my sister and I had to beg mum to let us watch! I was in love! I still get it out on video and watch it every now and again - in a number of sittings, but I like that, it gives me something to look forward to on free days I can dedicate to total vegetation!

I wasn't too against the idea of a regular series of mini-series, as V was intentionally originally designed to be.

I would prefer a series, but I would happily settle for a lot of ongoing movies of the week or a mini-series like Dune. If it was the only way the story could be told.

However, I doubt that would be viable for a network these days!

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"Officially, I'm a P5. Unofficially, my range is more... much more."

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>...especially as in season 4 (IIRC) he wrote all 22 himself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, he wrote all of S3 and all of S4, and wrote the screenplays for 21 out of 22 S5 episodes. (He shared story credit with Harlan on one script, but wrote the final screenplay himself.)

From Larry Ditillio's "Knives" in S2 every single script until Neil Gaiman's "Day of the Dead" in S5 was written by JMS. That's a total of 65 scripts out of a possible 66 for the three seasons, and 59 in a row between late S2 and early S5. This is definitely a record. Only one other person had written an entire season of a 20+ episode series in the history of television - Linda Bloodworth Thomason. She wrote the first year of Designing Women by herself. But that was a half-hour sitcom, with much shorter scripts.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> You just love to tease us, don't you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dean has obviously taken the JMS seminars "How To Drive B5 Fans Crazy" and "Conversational Vorlon".

On the BBC, I recall reading somewhere that, because of the government funding portion of their income, the BBC is Required to produce X hours per year of programming aimed a Niche or "Fringe" audiences that would be completely neglected if Ratings were allowed to be the only criteria.

Anyone in Britain know if this is true??




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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[RW7427]

I would prefer a series myself. As others have said, a series is not only longer more steady work for the actors, but it is better for us fans who are watching it because there is more time for longer running, better storylines. IMHO a series is better because there is also more time to develop the characters, giving us more time to watch them change and grow. A series would give us more of a chance to get to know and love the new stories and also to help many of us get our Babylon 5 fix!

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Long live the Salad Rangers! We live for the Salad Bar, we die for the Salad Bar.

 

[drakh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
Only one other person had written an entire season of a 20+ episode series in the history of television - Linda Bloodworth Thomason.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope. David E. Kelley wrote the first two (possibly three) seasons of Ally McBeal alone with the exception of one shared written by credit in the second season.

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You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert