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'Scare Tactics' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Order
- Thread starter KoshN
- Start date
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
Yeah but the Gathering sucked too.
Yeah but the Gathering sucked too.
The Juche Warrior
Regular
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
Not in the way Rangers sucked.
Not in the way Rangers sucked.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
While I agree that TLaDiS sucked in most places, I believe that Shok'Na Mikel meant that while The Gathering also left a lot to be desired, look at the show (B5) that evolved from The Gathering. A similar thing could have happened with Legend of the Rangers if the freaking "Sci-Fi" channel had a damn clue.
Still, I'd MUCH RATHER they'd restarted CRUSADE. Skiffy and Bionnie Hammer, this emphatic, two handed, middle finger salute is just for you.
While I agree that TLaDiS sucked in most places, I believe that Shok'Na Mikel meant that while The Gathering also left a lot to be desired, look at the show (B5) that evolved from The Gathering. A similar thing could have happened with Legend of the Rangers if the freaking "Sci-Fi" channel had a damn clue.
Still, I'd MUCH RATHER they'd restarted CRUSADE. Skiffy and Bionnie Hammer, this emphatic, two handed, middle finger salute is just for you.
M
Mike G
Guest
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
As said many times on these boards, Legend of the Rangers wasn't a great movie, but it would have been a great show!
As said many times on these boards, Legend of the Rangers wasn't a great movie, but it would have been a great show!
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
Look, I'm the absolute last person to support anything sci-fi does, but I can't blame them for not picking up Rangers. Why should any network be obligated to pick up a series when the pilot was as bad as Rangers was? Why should they foot the bill in order to let some series "evolve?" Maybe you should be blaming JMS for writing yet another sucky movie instead of sci-fi for not picking it up. I love B5, but I wouldn't have commisioned a series based on Rangers ... I don't believe any objective person could.
Why should they restart Crusade? Sci-fi shows get canned prematurely every year, are they obligated to restart all of them? And why, pray tell, should they restart Crusade over far surperior cancelled shows like Firefly, Now and Again, Futurama, John Doe....
You don't know that, no one does. Just because someone has a decent track record with one series doesn't mean that everything he does will be great. Take David E. Kelley for instance...he has an even more impressive track record than JMS... he created Picket Fences, Ally McBeal, The Practice, Boston Public...but he also gave us Girl's Club and Snoops. Ultimately all we really know about Rangers was that it was a sucky telefilm. What it could have become as a series, who knows.
Look, I'm the absolute last person to support anything sci-fi does, but I can't blame them for not picking up Rangers. Why should any network be obligated to pick up a series when the pilot was as bad as Rangers was? Why should they foot the bill in order to let some series "evolve?" Maybe you should be blaming JMS for writing yet another sucky movie instead of sci-fi for not picking it up. I love B5, but I wouldn't have commisioned a series based on Rangers ... I don't believe any objective person could.
Why should they restart Crusade? Sci-fi shows get canned prematurely every year, are they obligated to restart all of them? And why, pray tell, should they restart Crusade over far surperior cancelled shows like Firefly, Now and Again, Futurama, John Doe....
You don't know that, no one does. Just because someone has a decent track record with one series doesn't mean that everything he does will be great. Take David E. Kelley for instance...he has an even more impressive track record than JMS... he created Picket Fences, Ally McBeal, The Practice, Boston Public...but he also gave us Girl's Club and Snoops. Ultimately all we really know about Rangers was that it was a sucky telefilm. What it could have become as a series, who knows.
M
Mike G
Guest
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
I don't think anyone would be very upset if Sci-Fi didn't make Rangers a series, but insted put on a good science fiction show. But insted of doing Rangers, they are doing crap.
I don't think anyone would be very upset if Sci-Fi didn't make Rangers a series, but insted put on a good science fiction show. But insted of doing Rangers, they are doing crap.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
Because they HAVE the B5 and Crusade reruns, and could have built upon that with another B5 universe series, one that has a lot more footage under it's belt, rather than starting with a completely new B5 universe series. Starting with a pilot for an entirely new B5 universe series was utter stupidity on Sci-Fi's part. Basing their go/no-go decision solely on the ratings that pilot got, amounts to the previously mentioned stupidity squared.
Firefly, "far superior" to Crusade? Gimme a break! It was OK, and Fox shouldn't have cancelled it, but it wasn't far superior to Crusade. Regarding Now and Again, I only saw a couple episodes, so I can't really judge it. Regarding Futurama, you've got to be kidding, it's a freakin' cartoon. That may be OK for Fox, "Spike TV" or the Cartoon Channel, but that's about it. Regarding John Doe, well Fox never should have cancelled it.
I do blame JMS for writing a yet another sucky TV movie. The Gathering was rough, but TLaDiS ranks right down there with The River of Souls (actually worse than The River of Souls, in my opinion). Thirdspace was better. In the Beginning and A Call to Arms were the best. I blame The Sci-Fi Channel for passing on a continuation of Crusade. For that, JMS could have picked up where he left off, and wouldn't have been starting a new series, cold.
We know that JMS has a harder time with 90 minute movies than he has with TV Series. He's much better at planning and writing the long story, which is "Series TV." Once he gets going, he does well, but that first 90 minutes, the pilot, is rough.
Because they HAVE the B5 and Crusade reruns, and could have built upon that with another B5 universe series, one that has a lot more footage under it's belt, rather than starting with a completely new B5 universe series. Starting with a pilot for an entirely new B5 universe series was utter stupidity on Sci-Fi's part. Basing their go/no-go decision solely on the ratings that pilot got, amounts to the previously mentioned stupidity squared.
Firefly, "far superior" to Crusade? Gimme a break! It was OK, and Fox shouldn't have cancelled it, but it wasn't far superior to Crusade. Regarding Now and Again, I only saw a couple episodes, so I can't really judge it. Regarding Futurama, you've got to be kidding, it's a freakin' cartoon. That may be OK for Fox, "Spike TV" or the Cartoon Channel, but that's about it. Regarding John Doe, well Fox never should have cancelled it.
I do blame JMS for writing a yet another sucky TV movie. The Gathering was rough, but TLaDiS ranks right down there with The River of Souls (actually worse than The River of Souls, in my opinion). Thirdspace was better. In the Beginning and A Call to Arms were the best. I blame The Sci-Fi Channel for passing on a continuation of Crusade. For that, JMS could have picked up where he left off, and wouldn't have been starting a new series, cold.
We know that JMS has a harder time with 90 minute movies than he has with TV Series. He's much better at planning and writing the long story, which is "Series TV." Once he gets going, he does well, but that first 90 minutes, the pilot, is rough.
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
They also HAVE the re-runs to Now and Again, Earth 2, Earth Final Conflict ... etc. and could have built upon those rather than starting with a completely new series. What makes Crusade so special? Because YOU like it? I'm sorry, but if sci-fi isn't going to cater to its main fan base, then they certinally ain't going to cater to one particular fan who happens to like Crusade.
Ok, that's a matter of taste, but let's look at it objectively (i.e. from a market standpoint)... which series was recently cancelled? Which series still has a very active fan base? Which series is about to be released on DVD? Which series is still on the minds of most fans? Which series had greater exposure? Which series was seen by more people?
Most people never saw Crusade.
Maybe, but I'll put Futurama's ratings, fan base, popularity and overall appeal over Crusade any day of the week.
As well you should.
I don't care if he writes better sitting up than laying down, or if he writes better on Tuesdays rather than thursdays, or if he writes better in boxers rather than briefs.... all I care about is watching something good and Rangers sucked. Why it sucked or if it would have sucked as a series, I could care less.
They also HAVE the re-runs to Now and Again, Earth 2, Earth Final Conflict ... etc. and could have built upon those rather than starting with a completely new series. What makes Crusade so special? Because YOU like it? I'm sorry, but if sci-fi isn't going to cater to its main fan base, then they certinally ain't going to cater to one particular fan who happens to like Crusade.
Ok, that's a matter of taste, but let's look at it objectively (i.e. from a market standpoint)... which series was recently cancelled? Which series still has a very active fan base? Which series is about to be released on DVD? Which series is still on the minds of most fans? Which series had greater exposure? Which series was seen by more people?
Most people never saw Crusade.
Maybe, but I'll put Futurama's ratings, fan base, popularity and overall appeal over Crusade any day of the week.
As well you should.
I don't care if he writes better sitting up than laying down, or if he writes better on Tuesdays rather than thursdays, or if he writes better in boxers rather than briefs.... all I care about is watching something good and Rangers sucked. Why it sucked or if it would have sucked as a series, I could care less.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
Do they have the rerun rights for Now and Again, Earth 2, Earth Final Conflict ... etc., and the spinoffs of each of those shows? What? No? Those shows don't have spinoffs? Well, that's what's so special about Crusade. It builds upon all that's gone before in B5, and could transition the B5 fanbase, not just me.
Now, I know you're going to say that it doesn't transition a lot of the B5 fanbase because a lot of people didn't like Crusade. Well, we know why that's the case. It was screwed with. Well, this would be Sci-Fi's opportunity to take the pieces of what's gone before and make a good show with all the pieces and no gaps. They don't have to reinvent the entire wheel. All they've got to do is patch the tire. If they re-started Crusade, they could make things right, and rejuvenate the entire B5 fanbase[1] and turn things around, but they won't because they have no vision. Hell, Crusade could be an anchor for their Friday night when SG-1 is gone, but no.
Which series has a greater fanbase, B5/Crusade or the ones you mentioned? Which series should they have re-started two years ago, before Firefly was even written? I can't help it that Sci-Fi's asleep at the switch. I can't help it that they can't recognize what JMS is good at. I can't help it that they can't recognize an opportunity even when it smacks 'em right between the eyes. I mean, these people could take a sure thing and screw it up.
Most people never saw Now and Again, and some probably confuse it with Once and Again, which was on around the same time, just because the titles are so close.
Joe Millionaire has popularity, too. What's that prove, that a lot of people out there like shite. Me, I don't watch cartoons much at all. I've seen maybe six eps. of the Simpsons and one or two of Futurama. Don't read comic books, either (except the three B5 graphic novels, because that's the only place I can get those stories). Kinda gave that all up when I was 12, which was 34 years ago. As a 46 year old, I wouldn't be caught dead reading a B5 graphic novel/comic in public. I doubt many adults would.
Track record has to be a consideration for a network. To ignore the track record, what one does well and what one does not do well, means that the network is not doing it's job. They'd have been much better off going for a 13 episode order like TNT did, than a 90 minute pilot.
[1] This could result in more novels, short stories and maybe a restart of the fan club and the B5/Crusade magazines. This would also be happening at precisely the point where Enterprise is floundering, and B5/Crusade could get some of that audience. I came from Trek when I was disenchanted with Voyager. Who's to say others wouldn't do the same thing? SG-1 will be finishing up. What's left, Andromeda? Ptui! Please, I'd rather cut my grass than watch that.
Do they have the rerun rights for Now and Again, Earth 2, Earth Final Conflict ... etc., and the spinoffs of each of those shows? What? No? Those shows don't have spinoffs? Well, that's what's so special about Crusade. It builds upon all that's gone before in B5, and could transition the B5 fanbase, not just me.
Now, I know you're going to say that it doesn't transition a lot of the B5 fanbase because a lot of people didn't like Crusade. Well, we know why that's the case. It was screwed with. Well, this would be Sci-Fi's opportunity to take the pieces of what's gone before and make a good show with all the pieces and no gaps. They don't have to reinvent the entire wheel. All they've got to do is patch the tire. If they re-started Crusade, they could make things right, and rejuvenate the entire B5 fanbase[1] and turn things around, but they won't because they have no vision. Hell, Crusade could be an anchor for their Friday night when SG-1 is gone, but no.
Which series has a greater fanbase, B5/Crusade or the ones you mentioned? Which series should they have re-started two years ago, before Firefly was even written? I can't help it that Sci-Fi's asleep at the switch. I can't help it that they can't recognize what JMS is good at. I can't help it that they can't recognize an opportunity even when it smacks 'em right between the eyes. I mean, these people could take a sure thing and screw it up.
Most people never saw Now and Again, and some probably confuse it with Once and Again, which was on around the same time, just because the titles are so close.
Joe Millionaire has popularity, too. What's that prove, that a lot of people out there like shite. Me, I don't watch cartoons much at all. I've seen maybe six eps. of the Simpsons and one or two of Futurama. Don't read comic books, either (except the three B5 graphic novels, because that's the only place I can get those stories). Kinda gave that all up when I was 12, which was 34 years ago. As a 46 year old, I wouldn't be caught dead reading a B5 graphic novel/comic in public. I doubt many adults would.
Track record has to be a consideration for a network. To ignore the track record, what one does well and what one does not do well, means that the network is not doing it's job. They'd have been much better off going for a 13 episode order like TNT did, than a 90 minute pilot.
[1] This could result in more novels, short stories and maybe a restart of the fan club and the B5/Crusade magazines. This would also be happening at precisely the point where Enterprise is floundering, and B5/Crusade could get some of that audience. I came from Trek when I was disenchanted with Voyager. Who's to say others wouldn't do the same thing? SG-1 will be finishing up. What's left, Andromeda? Ptui!
Please, I'd rather cut my grass than watch that.Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
Oh, so the fact that B5 has a failed spin-off means that sci-fi should be tripping over themselves to restart the series? Exactly how many years has Crusade been dead anyway, like 4 years or more? Crusade would have been in no better position than a spin-off or continuation of, say, Quantum Leap... which, to this day, still has a very active fan base. I would argue that they would have been better off doing a spin-off that than Crusade. Just because you wanted them to pick up Crusade doesn't mean it would have been a good decision. Given the kind of ratings that Rangers got, they were probably better off not doing it.
Why do I care if it was screwed with or not? All I care about is whether the show is good or not. I'll leave the "why it wasn't good" to other people. BTW, doesn't a network pretty much screw around with every show it airs? They pay for the damn thing so why shouldn't they screw around with it if they want to?
They could do the same thing with Quantum Leap and a half dozen other shows... some of them better shows than Crusade.
I didn't ask that. I asked about Crusade vs. all those other shows, not B5. But if you want to talk about the B5/spinoff fanbase then look at the numbers that Rangers got. I'll put those numbers up against most of those others. Or we can put up the numbers of Crusade against those others... either way, I think I win.
Dr. Who, Quantum Leap, Battlestar Gallatica, Now and Again... take your pick.
Look, they gave JMS a chance and he screwed it up with Rangers. Maybe if he had made something worth a damn then the entire B5 universe would have been revitalized... obviously he must have thought this himself or he wouldn't have sent out that idiotic letter asking fans not to pass around old Crusade scripts that had been floating around on the net for god knows how long. Maybe he thought a Rangers series might lead to a Crusade restart or maybe he thought he could add some of the Crusade plot into a Rangers series... either way we'll never know because Rangers sucked.
You're probably right, but I'm betting that most people have heard of Quantum Leap or Battlestar Gallatica, so why should they sink money into Crusade instead of those other two?
Maybe, or it could mean bigger ratings, which leads to more money, which is why networks exist in the first place.
Oh, so the fact that B5 has a failed spin-off means that sci-fi should be tripping over themselves to restart the series? Exactly how many years has Crusade been dead anyway, like 4 years or more? Crusade would have been in no better position than a spin-off or continuation of, say, Quantum Leap... which, to this day, still has a very active fan base. I would argue that they would have been better off doing a spin-off that than Crusade. Just because you wanted them to pick up Crusade doesn't mean it would have been a good decision. Given the kind of ratings that Rangers got, they were probably better off not doing it.
Why do I care if it was screwed with or not? All I care about is whether the show is good or not. I'll leave the "why it wasn't good" to other people. BTW, doesn't a network pretty much screw around with every show it airs? They pay for the damn thing so why shouldn't they screw around with it if they want to?
They could do the same thing with Quantum Leap and a half dozen other shows... some of them better shows than Crusade.
I didn't ask that. I asked about Crusade vs. all those other shows, not B5. But if you want to talk about the B5/spinoff fanbase then look at the numbers that Rangers got. I'll put those numbers up against most of those others. Or we can put up the numbers of Crusade against those others... either way, I think I win.
Dr. Who, Quantum Leap, Battlestar Gallatica, Now and Again... take your pick.
Look, they gave JMS a chance and he screwed it up with Rangers. Maybe if he had made something worth a damn then the entire B5 universe would have been revitalized... obviously he must have thought this himself or he wouldn't have sent out that idiotic letter asking fans not to pass around old Crusade scripts that had been floating around on the net for god knows how long. Maybe he thought a Rangers series might lead to a Crusade restart or maybe he thought he could add some of the Crusade plot into a Rangers series... either way we'll never know because Rangers sucked.
You're probably right, but I'm betting that most people have heard of Quantum Leap or Battlestar Gallatica, so why should they sink money into Crusade instead of those other two?
Maybe, or it could mean bigger ratings, which leads to more money, which is why networks exist in the first place.
G Kar of the Kha Ri
Regular
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
I dunno. I find that kind of offensive. Kinda like, "Hey, comics are for kids, so they're obviously not worth the time of day." And reading stuff like comics/graphic novels in public when you're an adult? Why the FRELL should that in any way be embarassing or whatever? Oooooooh. He's obviously older than your average child, and.... GASP.... he's reading a...... COMIC! What a RETARD! Now let us single him out and treat him like he's inferior!
Hrm. Perhaps that wasn't very concise. I can't seem to coherently make my statement. But anyways, there are plenty of comics out there that put the majority of today's shows (yes, even the GOOD ones) to shame. Reminds me of how some people treat anime. It MUST be lame because it's animated, and we ALL know that cartoons are for kids. And yet there are probably more interesting anime currently airing in Japan and other parts of the world that can consistantly top American TV of all kinds. End rant.
Also, why all this bickering over comparing Crusade's quality to the quality of other shows that Sci-Fi could revive? I think KoshN was attempting to say that instead of trying to start a brand new B5 spinoff by making a telemovie that may or may not completely bomb (kinda... like it somewhat did), thereby nullifying the chances of seeing a new B5-based series, Sci-Fi could've easily just attempted to revive Crusade, an already established B5 spinoff, since it proved in at least a FEW episodes that it's pretty damn good if JMS can work his magic with it. In other words, he in no way (at least to my knowledge) said that Crusade was more deserving of a second chance at life on TV, but merely that if Sci-Fi wanted a B5 spinoff they should've just tried to bring THAT back instead of taking a chance with establishing a new thing.
I dunno. I find that kind of offensive. Kinda like, "Hey, comics are for kids, so they're obviously not worth the time of day." And reading stuff like comics/graphic novels in public when you're an adult? Why the FRELL should that in any way be embarassing or whatever? Oooooooh. He's obviously older than your average child, and.... GASP.... he's reading a...... COMIC! What a RETARD! Now let us single him out and treat him like he's inferior!
Hrm. Perhaps that wasn't very concise. I can't seem to coherently make my statement. But anyways, there are plenty of comics out there that put the majority of today's shows (yes, even the GOOD ones) to shame. Reminds me of how some people treat anime. It MUST be lame because it's animated, and we ALL know that cartoons are for kids. And yet there are probably more interesting anime currently airing in Japan and other parts of the world that can consistantly top American TV of all kinds. End rant.
Also, why all this bickering over comparing Crusade's quality to the quality of other shows that Sci-Fi could revive? I think KoshN was attempting to say that instead of trying to start a brand new B5 spinoff by making a telemovie that may or may not completely bomb (kinda... like it somewhat did), thereby nullifying the chances of seeing a new B5-based series, Sci-Fi could've easily just attempted to revive Crusade, an already established B5 spinoff, since it proved in at least a FEW episodes that it's pretty damn good if JMS can work his magic with it. In other words, he in no way (at least to my knowledge) said that Crusade was more deserving of a second chance at life on TV, but merely that if Sci-Fi wanted a B5 spinoff they should've just tried to bring THAT back instead of taking a chance with establishing a new thing.
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
Nobody's "bickering," it's just two adults having a civilized discussion. No one is name-calling, no one is flaming, no one is really doing anything except having a point-counterpoint debate of sorts. It may be a pointless discussion (in fact I know it is), but it's ours to have.
Actually, the discussion went from (and excuse my paraphrasing) Sci-fi was stupid for adding 9 episodes of Scare Tactics; to Sci-Fi was stupid for not picking up Rangers; and ultimately to Sci-fi was stupid for wanting a new series instead of restarting Crusade.
As to the last point, I don't understand the resentment behind Sci-fi's move to have a new series rather than restarting Crusade. Frankly, I think we were extremly lucky that sci-fi wanted to do anything with regards to the B5 universe... it's not like they owed it to anyone to do anything. As far as their reasoning goes, mabe Sci-fi thought that 2 years was too long to restart a series; maybe they believed that Crusade simply wasn't a good series to begin with; maybe they thought it would have been too expensive or too much trouble to round up all of Crusade's actors when they could simply hire new ones and cheaper ones... who knows? My point is that it may have been a moot point if JMS had simply done a good job with Rangers. Laying it all at the feet of Sci-fi is a cop-out in my opinion, because JMS deserves some of the blame as well.
Nobody's "bickering," it's just two adults having a civilized discussion. No one is name-calling, no one is flaming, no one is really doing anything except having a point-counterpoint debate of sorts. It may be a pointless discussion (in fact I know it is), but it's ours to have.
Actually, the discussion went from (and excuse my paraphrasing) Sci-fi was stupid for adding 9 episodes of Scare Tactics; to Sci-Fi was stupid for not picking up Rangers; and ultimately to Sci-fi was stupid for wanting a new series instead of restarting Crusade.
As to the last point, I don't understand the resentment behind Sci-fi's move to have a new series rather than restarting Crusade. Frankly, I think we were extremly lucky that sci-fi wanted to do anything with regards to the B5 universe... it's not like they owed it to anyone to do anything. As far as their reasoning goes, mabe Sci-fi thought that 2 years was too long to restart a series; maybe they believed that Crusade simply wasn't a good series to begin with; maybe they thought it would have been too expensive or too much trouble to round up all of Crusade's actors when they could simply hire new ones and cheaper ones... who knows? My point is that it may have been a moot point if JMS had simply done a good job with Rangers. Laying it all at the feet of Sci-fi is a cop-out in my opinion, because JMS deserves some of the blame as well.
G Kar of the Kha Ri
Regular
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
You know, I could easily find myself somewhat offended by that. COULD. Being 5 in the morning helps my disposition not at all! Anyways, I understand that much. I was simply stating what I thought at the time, and despite the fact that I feel I'm rather good with words, half of that post I made just didn't come out right. Once I start rambling, everything I say tends to get screwed up one way or another.
And yes, does seem to be quite a pointless conversation, but I had a bit of fun reading through all of it. Thanks for partially brightening my early morning.
I'd respond to the rest, but it's far too late/early for me to really coherently state any sort of opinion. Lazy, you know.
You know, I could easily find myself somewhat offended by that. COULD.
Being 5 in the morning helps my disposition not at all! Anyways, I understand that much. I was simply stating what I thought at the time, and despite the fact that I feel I'm rather good with words, half of that post I made just didn't come out right. Once I start rambling, everything I say tends to get screwed up one way or another.And yes, does seem to be quite a pointless conversation, but I had a bit of fun reading through all of it. Thanks for partially brightening my early morning.
I'd respond to the rest, but it's far too late/early for me to really coherently state any sort of opinion. Lazy, you know.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
Crusade was last aired in first run 3.8 years ago. It had been has been off the air for 1.5 years, when Sci-Fi announced they'd gotten the Crusade rerun rights. That was when they should have re-started Crusade, 2.3 years ago.
??? Did the Quantum Leap fanbase want to see a spinoff, or just to see Sam get home? If they're fans of Scott, they're probably watching Enterprise. His being on Enterprise would probably have taken a lot of the wind out of the sails of a Quantum Leap spinoff.
There was a lot of existing Crusade to work with. All they had to do was to fix a few things. It would have taken relatively little work to complete a first season (compared to doing a first season completely from scratch).
If you could fix a few things and make a few episodes and come up with a complete first season and a good show, you'd be crazy not to do so. The Japanese were famous for this. They see a failed product or invention, and see that with a couple of tweaks it could work. They make the tweaks, building on someone else's work, and BINGO, they have a hit product. We know what was wrong with Crusade, and so does JMS. It's been discussed ad infinitum. We have three unfilmed scripts, at least two of which the fans LOVE. How many more hints do the people at Sci-Fi need? They see all this and then they go with the Rangers pilot??? Duh!!!
If I ever see another episode of Quantum Leap, it'll be too soon. It was done to death. Bakula is on Enterprise. Bakula/Sam IS Quantum Leap. How much of Quantum Leap did not involve Scott Bakula and Dean Stockwell? Take away those two and there is no show. Crusade has the entire, established B5 universe to draw upon.
Crusade is inextricably linked to B5. It benefits from all the stuff of the B5 universe that can be used in it.
You conveniently ignore the fact that TNT's meddling resulted in the numbers that Crusade got. A complete first season of Crusade, with the worst TNT bits excised, would undoubtedly get better numbers, IF Sci-Fi promoted it at all (which is a BIG "IF"), provided viewers aren't completely jaded about the channel by now.
Dr. Who - How many seasons has that thing already been on? 26? 158 eps in 700 parts, 3 specials, 2 features, 1 revival. Haven't you had enough?
Quantum Leap - As I've said before, it's been done to death.
Battlestar Gallatica - Oh, please! Hurl! There went my cookies. Next, people will be calling for a re-start or re-imagining of Black Scorpion.
Now and Again - an obscure show. It's main actor is now on Without a Trace. More people have probably seen Brimstone than Now and Again.
Look, Sci-Fi screwed up by insisting on a new show. I swear, you could take these people from Sci-Fi to the edge of a cliff, show them two possibilities, walking across a perfectly good bridge that spans the mile wide 10,000 foot drop, and the empty space of the 10,000 foot drop. They'd step off into empty space and then would be surprised that they fell.
He wouldn't want his stuff being freely passed around, anyway, just as a matter of principle. Regarding Rangers, he should have passed on the project completely.
We know this was the case. There is no "maybe" about it. It was going to be a backdoor way of resolving Crusade.
And we only got Rangers because Sci-Fi, tapping their seemingly infinite reserves of stupidity, vetoed a re-start of Crusade.
Quantum Leap has been done to death.
Battlestar Gallactica sucked. It was stereotypical, cheesey skiffy.
Maybe, but people get tired of it, especially since everybody is piling on the bandwagon with their version of it now. Just look at:
Futon Critic Summer 2003 Grid
I am so turned off by Reality Shows right now, that I actively avoid all of them. They're like shit; they're everywhere.
Crusade was last aired in first run 3.8 years ago. It had been has been off the air for 1.5 years, when Sci-Fi announced they'd gotten the Crusade rerun rights. That was when they should have re-started Crusade, 2.3 years ago.
??? Did the Quantum Leap fanbase want to see a spinoff, or just to see Sam get home? If they're fans of Scott, they're probably watching Enterprise. His being on Enterprise would probably have taken a lot of the wind out of the sails of a Quantum Leap spinoff.
Bull! I completely disagree. Quantum Leap had 97 episodes, and I'm so tired of it. What do we have to see, Sam jump in and out of every person on the planet? How long till it gets old for you? Not only that, it's been out of production for 10 years. Crusade's only been out of production since spring of 1999, or four years. Bakula is on Enterprise, and it's renewed. Gary Cole's "Family Affair" is cancelled.
True, not just because I wanted them to pick it up. Because it would have made sense. However, that's an anathema to The Sci-Fi Channel, kind of like holy water to a vampire.
That line of reasoning is completely ridiculous. TLaDiS ratings do not translate to Crusade ratings. You cannot say that because TLaDiS was bad, that a continuation of Crusade, fixing the mistakes in the existing episodes, removing the looping, and filming the unfilmed episodes and perhaps a couple more to make a complete first season, would have resulted in a worse product, or worse ratings than TLaDiS got.
There was a lot of existing Crusade to work with. All they had to do was to fix a few things. It would have taken relatively little work to complete a first season (compared to doing a first season completely from scratch).
If you could fix a few things and make a few episodes and come up with a complete first season and a good show, you'd be crazy not to do so. The Japanese were famous for this. They see a failed product or invention, and see that with a couple of tweaks it could work. They make the tweaks, building on someone else's work, and BINGO, they have a hit product. We know what was wrong with Crusade, and so does JMS. It's been discussed ad infinitum. We have three unfilmed scripts, at least two of which the fans LOVE. How many more hints do the people at Sci-Fi need? They see all this and then they go with the Rangers pilot??? Duh!!!
B5 received almost no notes after Season 1. JMS has indicated that he's never seen notes like quantity or quality he got from TNT.
Because they're extremely likely to f*ck it up. Just because it's "possible" for a five year old to own a car, it's not necessarily smart to allow them to drive it.
If I ever see another episode of Quantum Leap, it'll be too soon. It was done to death. Bakula is on Enterprise. Bakula/Sam IS Quantum Leap. How much of Quantum Leap did not involve Scott Bakula and Dean Stockwell? Take away those two and there is no show. Crusade has the entire, established B5 universe to draw upon.
Crusade is inextricably linked to B5. It benefits from all the stuff of the B5 universe that can be used in it.
Rangers sucked. It was a mistake. JMS didn't want to do it. He wanted to continue Crusade. Sci-Fi wanted a new show. It's because of Sci-Fi that we got the Rangers pilot instead of a finished Crusade.
You conveniently ignore the fact that TNT's meddling resulted in the numbers that Crusade got. A complete first season of Crusade, with the worst TNT bits excised, would undoubtedly get better numbers, IF Sci-Fi promoted it at all (which is a BIG "IF"), provided viewers aren't completely jaded about the channel by now.
Dr. Who - How many seasons has that thing already been on? 26? 158 eps in 700 parts, 3 specials, 2 features, 1 revival. Haven't you had enough?
Quantum Leap - As I've said before, it's been done to death.
Battlestar Gallatica - Oh, please! Hurl! There went my cookies.
Next, people will be calling for a re-start or re-imagining of Black Scorpion. Now and Again - an obscure show. It's main actor is now on Without a Trace. More people have probably seen Brimstone than Now and Again.
Look, Sci-Fi screwed up by insisting on a new show. I swear, you could take these people from Sci-Fi to the edge of a cliff, show them two possibilities, walking across a perfectly good bridge that spans the mile wide 10,000 foot drop, and the empty space of the 10,000 foot drop. They'd step off into empty space and then would be surprised that they fell.
He wouldn't want his stuff being freely passed around, anyway, just as a matter of principle. Regarding Rangers, he should have passed on the project completely.
We know this was the case. There is no "maybe" about it. It was going to be a backdoor way of resolving Crusade.
I completely agree that Rangers sucked. I hope we'll someday get to see the Crusade story told in some form, but I doubt it.
And we only got Rangers because Sci-Fi, tapping their seemingly infinite reserves of stupidity, vetoed a re-start of Crusade.
Quantum Leap has been done to death.
Battlestar Gallactica sucked. It was stereotypical, cheesey skiffy.
Maybe, but people get tired of it, especially since everybody is piling on the bandwagon with their version of it now. Just look at:
Futon Critic Summer 2003 Grid
I am so turned off by Reality Shows right now, that I actively avoid all of them. They're like shit; they're everywhere.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
That would be the general impression, like the adult reading the comic in public was of substandard (<100) IQ.
Oh, they wouldn't do that. They'd think it, and you might get some derisive looks, but they wouldn't "say" anything about it.
It's the "perception" of the media (the comic book) as a whole.
Anime's not my bag. Just don't care for it. The closest I get to animation is a Charlie Brown/Peanuts special now and then, a bit of a Simpsons episode or Tom & Jerry when I'm channel surfing, or Space Ghost Coast to Coast when I happen to notice it's on (which isn't very often).
I didn't want to go down that route, but was rather trying to show the progression from completed B5 to partially completed Crusade, and indicating that it'd make more sense to complete Crusade (satisfying demand to see a story resolved) than starting something new in the B5 universe (Rangers) and leaving all the Crusade threads dangling. To me, the current state of Crusade is like two electrodes in an air gap, with just slightly less voltage than is required to jump that gap. The voltage is always there, like a perpetual tease.
True.
Than the other shows PsionTen listed? Yes, I think Crusade is more deserving of a second chance at life on TV, than those shows (for the reasons I listed in my response to his post).
That much is certainly true.
That would be the general impression, like the adult reading the comic in public was of substandard (<100) IQ.
Oh, they wouldn't do that. They'd think it, and you might get some derisive looks, but they wouldn't "say" anything about it.
It's the "perception" of the media (the comic book) as a whole.
Anime's not my bag. Just don't care for it. The closest I get to animation is a Charlie Brown/Peanuts special now and then, a bit of a Simpsons episode or Tom & Jerry when I'm channel surfing, or Space Ghost Coast to Coast when I happen to notice it's on (which isn't very often).
I didn't want to go down that route, but was rather trying to show the progression from completed B5 to partially completed Crusade, and indicating that it'd make more sense to complete Crusade (satisfying demand to see a story resolved) than starting something new in the B5 universe (Rangers) and leaving all the Crusade threads dangling. To me, the current state of Crusade is like two electrodes in an air gap, with just slightly less voltage than is required to jump that gap. The voltage is always there, like a perpetual tease.
True.
Than the other shows PsionTen listed? Yes, I think Crusade is more deserving of a second chance at life on TV, than those shows (for the reasons I listed in my response to his post).
That much is certainly true.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
After TLaDiS, I'm not so sure. At this point, whenever I hear of a new Sci-Fi Channel project (new or a "re-imagining"), I'm pretty much filled with dread.
Well, they didn't do it for philanthropic reasons. They did it to make money. I just wish they'd have seen that they had a better chance of making money by restarting Crusade.
Maybe they didn't think very deep at all. Maybe they thought, we want our own new series, and that was as far as they thought.
Actually, if JMS had done a good job with Rangers, it's still unlikely that we'd have seen Crusade wrapped up very well. It wouldn't have been anywhere near as good as if Crusade had been re-started. What could JMS do, bring a few of the actors in quest spots? It would still be on a different show, and the emphasis would be on the new "Rangers" characters. The Crusade storyline would only be peripheral. Add to this that the new show would have to last into the third season, just to get to where Crusade already was.
Sci-Fi deserves the blame for vetoing the re-start of Crusade, and instead, wanting their own "new" B5 universe show. JMS deserves part of the blame for the way TLaDiS turned out, and for not passing on the project.
I'd rather that the B5 franchise had ended on Crusade than TLaDiS. I like the former a helluva lot more.
After TLaDiS, I'm not so sure. At this point, whenever I hear of a new Sci-Fi Channel project (new or a "re-imagining"), I'm pretty much filled with dread.
Well, they didn't do it for philanthropic reasons. They did it to make money. I just wish they'd have seen that they had a better chance of making money by restarting Crusade.
Maybe they didn't think very deep at all. Maybe they thought, we want our own new series, and that was as far as they thought.
Actually, if JMS had done a good job with Rangers, it's still unlikely that we'd have seen Crusade wrapped up very well. It wouldn't have been anywhere near as good as if Crusade had been re-started. What could JMS do, bring a few of the actors in quest spots? It would still be on a different show, and the emphasis would be on the new "Rangers" characters. The Crusade storyline would only be peripheral. Add to this that the new show would have to last into the third season, just to get to where Crusade already was.
Sci-Fi deserves the blame for vetoing the re-start of Crusade, and instead, wanting their own "new" B5 universe show. JMS deserves part of the blame for the way TLaDiS turned out, and for not passing on the project.
I'd rather that the B5 franchise had ended on Crusade than TLaDiS. I like the former a helluva lot more.
Lyta
Moderator
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
Who the frell cares what anyone else thinks? If people don't get that comics are much more than "just for kids" then it is up to us to break that stereotype.
Perhaps others will correct me but my impression is that "Anime" is it's own genre of animation. What I think of as "Anime" is generally Japanese animation and often more intellegent than other "Cartoons". I also think of Miyazaki animation as a whole different genre of Japanese animation too. There are so many different kinds of animated shows/movies that I think it is hard to lump them all into one category or label.
KoshN, the shows you described is not "Anime" at all but what I would consider just plain old American "Cartoons".
My head hurts a bit after reading this thread but I have a little story that sort of relates. I had a girlfriend spend the day with me yesterday while I was "recouperating" and we decided to watch some stuff on the TiVo.
Now, I have been home for the last few days so most everything that was interesting to me has been deleted. However, as I was paging through the programs she commented on "Cowboy Bebop" and wondered what that was. I told her and she was up to trying it out. After watching the first two sessions she thought it was odd but much better than she expected out of a "Cartoon". She was also quite shocked that it was airing on the Cartoon Network since she thought that it was a channel just for kids programs. I then explained to her that not everything animated is for kids and in fact, there is a lot out there made just for adults (like Bebop).
She then wondered if it was for adults only how do you make sure they don't watch it. She didn't realize that they only showed these programs late at night when kids shouldn't be watching TV anyway. It is funnny how having a simple conversation can change one's viewpoint on things as she was going to try to check it out when she got home.
Wow, I think that is the most I have posted in the last few days!
Who the frell cares what anyone else thinks? If people don't get that comics are much more than "just for kids" then it is up to us to break that stereotype.
Perhaps others will correct me but my impression is that "Anime" is it's own genre of animation. What I think of as "Anime" is generally Japanese animation and often more intellegent than other "Cartoons". I also think of Miyazaki animation as a whole different genre of Japanese animation too. There are so many different kinds of animated shows/movies that I think it is hard to lump them all into one category or label.
KoshN, the shows you described is not "Anime" at all but what I would consider just plain old American "Cartoons".
My head hurts a bit after reading this thread but I have a little story that sort of relates. I had a girlfriend spend the day with me yesterday while I was "recouperating" and we decided to watch some stuff on the TiVo.
Now, I have been home for the last few days so most everything that was interesting to me has been deleted. However, as I was paging through the programs she commented on "Cowboy Bebop" and wondered what that was. I told her and she was up to trying it out. After watching the first two sessions she thought it was odd but much better than she expected out of a "Cartoon". She was also quite shocked that it was airing on the Cartoon Network since she thought that it was a channel just for kids programs. I then explained to her that not everything animated is for kids and in fact, there is a lot out there made just for adults (like Bebop).
She then wondered if it was for adults only how do you make sure they don't watch it. She didn't realize that they only showed these programs late at night when kids shouldn't be watching TV anyway.
It is funnny how having a simple conversation can change one's viewpoint on things as she was going to try to check it out when she got home. Wow, I think that is the most I have posted in the last few days!
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
Re: \'Scare Tactics\' Gets (additional) 9-Episode Or
Man, I didn't mean to start this!
Man, I didn't mean to start this!
