Script Descriptions

[JonFrain]

But it's up to you to post what you want.

Yep. Because despite your opinion, the law doesn't cover individual discussions, only professionals and institutions.

Explain Red Letter Media and their take downs of the Star Wars prequels with TONs of footage.

Public discourse doesn't have to be in a classroom to have fair use.

 

[JonFrain]

Oh JMS knew about Blakes 7. He often spouted his love of Blakes 7, The Prisoner and the movie Seconds. That's why I investigated all of them.

I'm pretty sure the homage to Blakes 7 in both the liberator and "Anna" were public.

 

[JonFrain]

This subject certainly deserved its own topic, but it can't be completely separated from the Emmy discussion as it provides evidence for/against JMS deserving credit for a Special FX Emmy.

I think I'm done here though. It was interesting to see his descriptions for educational purposes.

 

[Jan]

Explain Red Letter Media and their take downs of the Star Wars prequels with TONs of footage.

Public discourse doesn't have to be in a classroom to have fair use.

A- I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. I neither know nor care anything about Red Letter Media.

B - Fair use is a legal term. I've explained it. You appear to want to insist that it's something else or remove the legal aspect of it. It doesn't work that way. Individuals have no protection under the law to use other people's work for any reason. And again, as I explained before - none of that matters because all that's under discussion is what I do or don't feel comfortable copying.

This subject certainly deserved its own topic, but it can't be completely separated from the Emmy discussion as it provides evidence for/against JMS deserving credit for a Special FX Emmy.

You may want to think it's providing evidence of something or another but all it is really is a way for Triple-F and I to give fans a glimpse into a tiny corner of the intricacies of making a TV show. So I'd suggest that you keep the two conversations separate.

Jan

 

[Triple F]

I think I'm done here though. It was interesting to see his descriptions for educational purposes.

If that's how you feel, though I'm sure there's more to come, bye then.

Personally I do sometimes get the impression that some folk are less interested in the topic being discussed than they are with wanting to be entertained by two or more (other) people arguing. Disagreements are fine, I don’t mind an exchange of views, but I can’t abide those who stand on the sidelines wanting to throw their two pence in just to keep them going - and loose interest when peace breaks out.

The Emmy thing is over, the rules surrounding that are as absolute as those surrounding copyrights – which Jan has correctly pointed out This is a separate subject. If you want to cross reference the two, fine, go ahead. But you’ll be doing it on your own.

Personally I’m genuinely more interested in seeing jms’s writing style and approach to this aspect of the show. It’s something I’m not familiar with.

 

[JonFrain]

I think I'm done here though. It was interesting to see his descriptions for educational purposes.

If that's how you feel, though I'm sure there's more to come, bye then.

Personally I do sometimes get the impression that some folk are less interested in the topic being discussed than they are with wanting to be entertained by two or more (other) people arguing. Disagreements are fine, I don’t mind an exchange of views, but I can’t abide those who stand on the sidelines wanting to throw their two pence in just to keep them going - and loose interest when peace breaks out.

The Emmy thing is over, the rules surrounding that are as absolute as those surrounding copyrights – which Jan has correctly pointed out This is a separate subject. If you want to cross reference the two, fine, go ahead. But you’ll be doing it on your own.

Personally I’m genuinely more interested in seeing jms’s writing style and approach to this aspect of the show. It’s something I’m not familiar with.

I wanted to see how he described the ships. She kindly gave several examples and I've learned what I wanted and expected to.

I'm simply not into B5 enough anymore to care about more than that.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

But it's up to you to post what you want.

Yep. Because despite your opinion, the law doesn't cover individual discussions, only professionals and institutions.

Explain Red Letter Media and their take downs of the Star Wars prequels with TONs of footage.

Public discourse doesn't have to be in a classroom to have fair use.

Parody is protected as free speech, and not-for-profit criticism intended as a public service is also - I believe - protected. Red Letter could argue to be either of those, or both.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Oh JMS knew about Blakes 7. He often spouted his love of Blakes 7, The Prisoner and the movie Seconds. That's why I investigated all of them.

I'm pretty sure the homage to Blakes 7 in both the liberator and "Anna" were public.

The Prisoner Hommages were pretty obvious. Blakes 7 less so. I'm unaware of any references to the Rock Hudson movie, "Seconds," though. (I assume that's the one we're talking about?) Could you point 'em out?

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Explain Red Letter Media and their take downs of the Star Wars prequels with TONs of footage.

Public discourse doesn't have to be in a classroom to have fair use.

A- I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. I neither know nor care anything about Red Letter Media.

Just FYI (And for the benefit of anyone else who may not know) Red Letter Media is infamous for epic-length reviews of the Star Wars prequels and the Star Trek TNG films, and Baby's Day Out. They use EXTENSIVE clips, they tend to run anywhere from 30 - 70 minutes. They're done by a fictional character named "Harvey Plinket," a demented, elderly, profane, drunken diabetic missing a leg who claims to have murdered at least three women, and kept a hooker captive in the basement for much of one review. The reviews are as much about the fictional Plinket character (Never seen) as they are about the films themselves. They're filthy, they're funny, and they are really unexpectedly insightful. They're certainly not everyone's cup of tea, though.

B - Fair use is a legal term. I've explained it. You appear to want to insist that it's something else or remove the legal aspect of it. It doesn't work that way. Individuals have no protection under the law to use other people's work for any reason. And again, as I explained before - none of that matters because all that's under discussion is what I do or don't feel comfortable copying.

Here: this may explain what you're talking about to anyone who's not familiar with it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

This subject certainly deserved its own topic, but it can't be completely separated from the Emmy discussion as it provides evidence for/against JMS deserving credit for a Special FX Emmy.

Personally, I'm bored by the Emmy aspect of it. The FX thing is much more interesting! That's just me, though. I'm the guy who can't get anyone to talk about "The Legend of Korra," so what do I know about what's interesting?

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Personally I do sometimes get the impression that some folk are less interested in the topic being discussed than they are with wanting to be entertained by two or more (other) people arguing. Disagreements are fine, I don’t mind an exchange of views, but I can’t abide those who stand on the sidelines wanting to throw their two pence in just to keep them going - and loose interest when peace breaks out.

Amen, brother. Back when I ran the Republibot site, and during the period we were getting a lot of traffic, I had to spend a LOT of time wrangling in people who just wanted to fight. I was bound and determined that the place wouldn't turn into just another asshole farm. In four years we never had a flame war. Then I took a week off - just one lousy week - and the entire thing went to hell, with everyone calling everyone names, and people quitting, and...gah. Broke my heart, and I started laying plans to leave shortly after.

Personally I’m genuinely more interested in seeing jms’s writing style and approach to this aspect of the show. It’s something I’m not familiar with.

Ditto! This is cool!

 

[Jan]

...and not-for-profit criticism intended as a public service is also - I believe - protected.

Not-for-profit and non-profit are often confused in meaning. Non-profit institutions are mentioned in Fair Use law but that specifically refers to organizations, not to individuals not interested in making profit from copyrighted material. Using small amounts of material in criticism, with or without profit motive is protected but that's generally accepted to mean columnists and the like.

Here's one that's often discussed. Here's the script and a bit of what JMS said about the scene. Hopefully Triple-F will have something from the artists. The description of the first look at the Great Machine on Epsilon 3.

The script:

INT. HEART OF THE MACHINE
(We can do this two ways: one is to show the whole thing at
once, or
START on a DOWNSHOT of Sinclair and Ivanova, then PULL BACK
and UPWARD, back and back and back to REVEAL them standing on
a narrow bridge that spans a huge chasm, with great MACHINES
moving and arcing above and below them. This is technology
on a scope and scale beyond anything we've ever seen before.
Sinclair and Ivanova are no more than specks far beneath us.

JMS said:

RE: the big bridge shot...the storyboard artist came up with 3 shots we could use. One of them was a wide shot across a crystalline ground like area, through which a path can be seen at ground level, but it was narrow and still really didn't convey the scale of what I wanted. One other was not much different. The third was a downshot designed to pull back, and though I knew it would make folks say "Krell!", I knew that it was the right shot for that scene, so chose that one and decided to live with it.

and

It's real simple. Ron Thornton showed me three variations on the Great Machine shot. Because you're looking at a composite shot, you have to shoot either sharply angled down, or dead across, and full-figured, since you have to put them into another piece. That meant either a horizontal shot, or a 3/4's vertical shot.
Two of the shots on the storyboards were horizontal; one showed our characters way off in the distance on a ribboned path lined by crystals. It'd be pretty, but it looked like another tunnel shot, and I wanted to show something that wasn't claustrophobic. Also, we'd be limited in the camera move, and our characters would look kinda like peanuts. Not terribly dramatic. The second shot just didn't work for me, I don't entirely recall the reason now. The third possibility seemed the most dramatic...it was a high angle shot, it had depth, it would let us start on our characters and do a camera move/pullback in post production, it worked on every level.

My second thought was, "Shit, somebody's going to gig us on the Forbidden Planet thing." Nonetheless, it was the right shot, for the right reasons, and we chose to go with it.

Jan

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Not-for-profit and non-profit are often confused in meaning. Non-profit institutions are mentioned in Fair Use law but that specifically refers to organizations, not to individuals not interested in making profit from copyrighted material. Using small amounts of material in criticism, with or without profit motive is protected but that's generally accepted to mean columnists and the like.

My bad.

Here's one that's often discussed. Here's the script and a bit of what JMS said about the scene. Hopefully Triple-F will have something from the artists. The description of the first look at the Great Machine on Epsilon 3.

My second thought was, "Shit, somebody's going to gig us on the Forbidden Planet thing." Nonetheless, it was the right shot, for the right reasons, and we chose to go with it.

Jan

Is anyone ever really going to complain about hommages to "Forbidden Planet?" I pretty much danced around the room when I first saw it. Likewise all those Prisoner references made me giddy. I love it when people I like like things I also like. When I realized how much Oingo Boingo liked Cab Calloway, I just about dropped a kidney...

 

[Triple F]

Not got a lot on this. . . . . hardly got anything would be closer to the truth. : )

It was the first episode Luc Mayrand got called in on (remembering he was freelance) and was heavily involved with the designs in and around the machine including the Varn alien himself, the interface where he plugged in and the big chasm where Ivanova needed to go too the toilet.. We/he touched on that bit briefly when I was asking if he ever included any ‘nods’ to stuff in his designs.

Some of the First Ones ships were inspired from minerals like silver dollars. The most obvious nod of all was no doubt the underground shafts in Epsilon 3. The Forbidden Planet underground was a reference from day one from JMS and John Copeland, but for scale mostly. The clearest thing was to get the sense of giant scale without making it exactly like the original movie. Thought the final room with Varn was very much its own original idea.

BTW. That's the site back up so you can download it now, Republibot. I'd have thought you'd have grabbed a copy years ago.

http://www.themadgoner.com/B5/B5Scrolls/B5Scrolls.htm


[Edit]
I’ve just realised what jms quotes you were using there, and what Luc said . . . . . . . . . It’s not my fault, Luc brought it up, I was asking about ships!

 

[Jan]

[Edit]
I’ve just realised what jms quotes you were using there, and what Luc said . . . . . . . . . It’s not my fault, Luc brought it up, I was asking about ships!

?? I was just being lazy and grabbed them off the Lurker's Guide page.

Somebody upthread was asking about a description of the Hyperion in 'Voice'. There isn't one. Only that an Earth Alliance Heavy Cruiser came through the jumpgate. I got a giggle out of this, though:

EXT. JUMP GATE

And out comes an Earth Alliance Heavy Cruiser.

INT. BABYLON 5 - OBSERVATION DOME

Garibaldi says the obvious thing, because somebody has to.

GARIBALDI

What the hell...that's an Earth
Alliance Heavy Cruiser.

Here's an interesting bit. When the Vorlons finally got off their encounter-suited butts.

EXT. SPACE

Four heavy shadow vessels, surrounded by a cloud of smaller
fighters, blow THROUGH FRAME.

ANOTHER ANGLE

REVEALING the burnt-out husks of Brakiri dreadnoughts, almost
unrecognizable as anything but skeletal remains. The shadow
vessels move unconcernedly through the maze of debris.

ANGLE - ANOTHER PART OF SPACE

As a jump point forms.

TIGHTEN (POSSIBLE STOCK)

As a Vorlon fleet pours through the opening to hyperspace
(similar to or same as the shot in the pilot).

ON THE LEAD CRUISER

As the four tentacles arc, and FIRE at

THE SHADOW VESSELS

before they can react, and one of the shadow vessels is hit
dead amidships, burning through to the other side, and we
HEAR their terrible shriek as the other three peel away, the
destroyed ship shriveling in on itself like a dead spider.

CLOSE - A SHADOW VESSEL

Swings around and FIRES.

ANGLE - VORLON CRUISER

The four tentacled arms suddenly arc and the energy blossoms
out like a curtain.
The incoming shadow beam STRIKES it, and though it comes out
the other side, it's refracted, as though passing through
water or crystal, a thousand brilliant colors that play
harmlessly over the intended target.

ANGLE - A SECOND SHADOW VESSEL

Writhes and spins and turns, trying to get away from the swarm
of smaller Vorlon fighters buzzing around it and firing, a
hundred tiny patterns cutting into its "flesh" as spitfire
fighters swarm in to try and fight them off.

From that deceptively calm-titled "Interludes and Examinations".

Jan

 

[Republibot 3.0]

BTW. That's the site back up so you can download it now, Republibot. I'd have thought you'd have grabbed a copy years ago.

http://www.themadgoner.com/B5/B5Scrolls/B5Scrolls.htm

I did. You gave me a complete download of the site up until that date (Say three years ago? Maybe 4) and even said I could serialize the info on the Republibot website so long as we gave you credit. (Thank you!)

I handed it over to our IT guy, who was never able to make it work. I'll start visiting it again, though.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Somebody upthread was asking about a description of the Hyperion in 'Voice'.

That was me.

There isn't one. Only that an Earth Alliance Heavy Cruiser came through the jumpgate. I got a giggle out of this, though:

Heh heh.

IIRC (And I very well may not), wasn't whomever designed the Hyperion deliberately hommaging anime starships like the ones in Star Blazers? I seem to recall JMS acknowledging this, though I can't remember the quote. I don't know if he was annoyed by it, or thought it was cool, or whatever.

ANGLE - VORLON CRUISER

The four tentacled arms suddenly arc and the energy blossoms
out like a curtain.
The incoming shadow beam STRIKES it, and though it comes out
the other side, it's refracted, as though passing through
water or crystal, a thousand brilliant colors that play
harmlessly over the intended target.

That woulda' been cool!

ANGLE - A SECOND SHADOW VESSEL

Writhes and spins and turns, trying to get away from the swarm
of smaller Vorlon fighters buzzing around it and firing, a
hundred tiny patterns cutting into its "flesh" as spitfire
fighters swarm in to try and fight them off.

That, too, would have been cool. To the best of my knowledge, we never saw a Vorlon fighter. I assume this was probably a time-and-budget constraint?

Does anyone know if a Vorlon fighter was ever sketched, or if they had any concepts for it?