Season 1: Ko'Dath's brief visit to the show

[Sindatur]

Oh man,
if you follow the link Jan posted above, it reads in the end:



erm... is this a joke or not?? in "to dream in the city of sorrows", valen's face is always described as featureless. it has been some time since i read the novel, but could it be that valen was originally intended to be female? an interesting question if you consider delenn would have been a minbari male in the original outline, changing to a half-human female after season 1. if delenn wanted to even the scales... guess what.

or am i getting something wrong here?

I thought all the Minbari were originally meant to be Androgynous, and then Delenn was supposed to become female?

 

[Jan]

erm... is this a joke or not??

It was a joke. Believe me, JMS wouldn't worry about Larry blabbing something and blurt it out himself.

Jan

 

[RW7427]

So Na'Toth was played by both JCB and Mary Kay Adams. When I said that I like Na'Toth better than Ko'Dath, it was the one played by JCB.

 

[Elipsis]

I just got to the Ko'Dath episode. Very interesting. Definitely no contacts. Nice find.

 

[RMcD]

It always struck me that JCB seemed to be wearing almost as much facial makeup as Guinevere Corey in There All the Honor Lies as she did as Na'Toth in S1 - I guess that may be because her skin was still recovering at that point, even after that much time.. I would guess when these actresses say they had problems wearing the Narn makeup, they really aren't kidding.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

Time to start pushing for better stage/tv make up. There is always an alternative chemical. This includes colour, rubber/plastic for the prosthetics and glue.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

It always struck me that JCB seemed to be wearing almost as much facial makeup as Guinevere Corey in There All the Honor Lies as she did as Na'Toth in S1

I don't think it was an issue of makeup per se as of the Narn prosthetics and the adhesives used to hold them in place. Even with the best fit and application the pieces can tend to move and shift in odd ways during the course of the day, especially as the adhesive breaks down and loosens, and this can lead the appliance to rub against the skin. Leonard Nimoy had such bad problems with the skin on the top of his ears being rubbed raw by the later part of each season of Star Trek that he famously almost fell for a put-on where one of the Genes (I think Coon, but it might have been Roddenberry) "offered" to have a plastic surgeon point his ears permanently and then reverse the procedure when the series went off the air. Ironically one of the reasons for this problem is the need to make the glues themselves safer to wear. Using Crazy Glue would eliminate the shifting problem entirely, but you can't use that on human skin for obvious reasons. Finding adhesives that will hold well enough and long enough without hurting the skin or causing reactions and which can be easily removed at the end of the shooting day is not an easy trick.

Time to start pushing for better stage/tv make up. There is always an alternative chemical. This includes colour, rubber/plastic for the prosthetics and glue.

Oh, good idea. I wonder why nobody in the stage or film business has ever thought of improving makeup before this. Good thing they have the fans to point these needed improvements out to them. (In point of fact the studios and the make-up companies have spent millions of dollars in R&D looking for better and safer ways of doing makeup, a process that probably started with Lon Chaney, Sr. They've done this in part because they've been prodded by invididual actors and the actors unions, in part because make up people are not sadistic torturers and they try to make the process easier for the actors when they can and in part because it costs them money when they have to replace an actor or one gets sick because of a make-up reaction. Rational self-interest impels them to do the right thing.)

Bad makeup reactions are pretty unusual and mostly due to idiosyncratic allergies or other problems that particular actors have and which are hard to predict since they don't effect the majority. (Sometimes they are due to inexperience with a new material or application method. Contrary to popular myth Buddy Ebsen's problem with the Tin Man makeup, which caused him to drop out of The Wizard of Oz, was not a skin reaction. He accidentally inhaled the aluminum powder that went into the makeup and had a respiratory reaction. The formulation and application process were changed so that make-up was premixed before being brought to the set and no one applying or wearing it was exposed to the aluminum dust again.)

Mary Woronov did not so much have a bad physical reaction to the Narn makeup as she had a bad psychological one. IIRC it was more a matter of claustrophobia than of physical discomfort. She basically freaked out after the wearing the stuff for too long.

And no, Andrew, there is no alternative to "chemical" since everything in the universe is, in fact, made of chemicals. Also "natural" doesn't mean "safe". (Snake venom is natural, so is anthrax. Sugar free iced tea is "artificial" and "chemical". Which would you rather drink a glass of? )

Regards,

Joe

 

[Jade Jaguar]

(Snake venom is natural, so is anthrax. Sugar free iced tea is "artificial" and "chemical". Which would you rather drink a glass of? )

Regards,

Joe

I'd drink none of the above. But, I will point out that unless you have ulcers, you can drink snake venom, well rattle snake venom and some others, without ill effect. It is rapidly broken down by your digestive system.

Joe, do you know if they use barrier creams with stage makeup? I doubt they would work under adhesives, but I should think they would be helpful for some things.

Also, I believe cyanoacrylate glue, aka "crazy glue," was originally developed for surgical purposes, based on the natural adhesive of barnacles. So, I doubt that it hurts human skin. But, unless there is a safe solvent to go with it, it would be useless for stage makeup appliances. It might also be too stiff.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

Oh, good idea. I wonder why nobody in the stage or film business has ever thought of improving makeup before this. Good thing they have the fans to point these needed improvements out to them. (In point of fact the studios and the make-up companies have spent millions of dollars in R&D looking for better and safer ways of doing makeup, a process that probably started with Lon Chaney, Sr.

Tried and failed is still
FAILED

{snip}

Bad makeup reactions are pretty unusual and mostly due to idiosyncratic allergies or other problems that particular actors have and which are hard to predict since they don't effect the majority.

{snip}

Mary Woronov did not so much have a bad physical reaction to the Narn makeup as she had a bad psychological one. IIRC it was more a matter of claustrophobia than of physical discomfort. She basically freaked out after the wearing the stuff for too long.

3 actresses in the same show is not "pretty unusual". Do not forget Pat Tallman's problems.

And no, Andrew, there is no alternative to "chemical" since everything in the universe is, in fact, made of chemicals. Also "natural" doesn't mean "safe". (Snake venom is natural, so is anthrax. Sugar free iced tea is "artificial" and "chemical". Which would you rather drink a glass of? )

JOE DM THIS IS UNWORTHY OF YOU.

Copying down what I said.

Originally Posted by A_M_Swallow View Post
Time to start pushing for better stage/tv make up. There is always an alternative chemical. This includes colour, rubber/plastic for the prosthetics and glue.

I said "alternative chemical" not "alternative to chemicals".

If you were just parroting what someone from a movie studio in a second newsgroup wrote then it is time for the studio to be prosecuted. There are plenty of similar Health and Safety stories from other industries. Not only does this stop them from saving obviously silly things but they also suddenly discover solutions.

 

[Elipsis]

I just rewatched this episode on my run through the first season... very interesting piece of information about the contacts, those eyes certainly aren't red.