Season 5

[Stunaep]

Now that I'm going through another run of my B5 tapes, this thing has bugged me for a while now.

Why do people consider Season 5 so bad? It's been called a number of undecent things, up to the point of being the "bastard child of B5". I'm halfway through the season, and I find myself still enjoying it thorougly. I like the Byron arc, because it prominently features my second favourite character, Lyta, it is a nice change from the big space battles of the Shadow war and Civil war, it includes several interesting moral and philosophical issues, AND it's got a dude with an english accent which is always good.

And then there's the second half, which is quite on par with any other B5 season, maybe not including S3 from Messages from Earth and onwards. Political intrigue, the good guys getting it, serious drama, it's all there. And then there SiL which despite being filmed in S4 is technically still a S5 episode.

And most of all, it certainly doesn't contain anything like "Infection" or "TKO" or "Grail".

So why do people think that S5 is mediocre at best?

 

[Londos6]

Personally I found the whole telepath arc incredibly boring, but that's just my opinion. The Centauri Prime arc is excellent though.

It always seemed to me that because it was unknown whether there would be a season 5, JMS did his best to tie up all the important bits in season 4. Season 5 seemed to me (with the exception of the Centauri Prime arc, and SiL which as you say is really season 4) mostly that it was just there in order to have a fifth season.

Again, it's just my opinion.

 

[FlipperPA]

The telepath arc was rushed and written on the fly; several things happened which made S5 a bit weaker in the beginning of the season. I believe they've been discussed, at length, in other threads. Firstly, Intersections in Real Time would have been the S4 finale should a fifth season have been confirmed earlier... leaving quite a few "meaty" episode for the first half of S5. Secondly, Ivanova's departure heart, although I did like Lochley. Third, JMS's notes were stolen / thrown out so he lost a lot of work that had to be made up on the fly.

In my opinion, S5 improves upon a second / third viewing... and everything from "The Ragged Edge" on is some of the best B5 made.

On another note, I just noticed why "Londos6" is such a funny nick name! I had wondered for a while then remember... "Where humans have one, we have... six!" "Six? Yikes!"

-Tim

 

[Londos6]

On another note, I just noticed why "Londos6" is such a funny nick name! I had wondered for a while then remember... "Where humans have one, we have... six!" "Six? Yikes!"

 

[Recoil]

On another note, I just noticed why "Londos6" is such a funny nick name! I had wondered for a while then remember... "Where humans have one, we have... six!" "Six? Yikes!"

Couple that with the particular pose Londo is in, in Londos6's avatar, and it all fits in an NC-17 sorta way.

 

[Markas]

Hmmm...perhaps I should lock L6 in that forum....

 

[MartinRoth]

Why do people consider Season 5 so bad? It's been called a number of undecent things, up to the point of being the "bastard child of B5".

I think part of the problem is that many people convinced themselves it was going to be bad before seeing it.

If you look back at message archives from around that time, you can see a whole lot of negativity about it right up front. After all, JMS had squeezed the arc into the fourth season, the Shadow War was over, the Earth War was done, Claudia was gone, etc. etc. etc., so what could be left? Add in the appearance of Byron, whom many (including me) considered a terribly weak character considering the significance of his role, and lots of people had written the whole thing off before the fact.

That, somehow, became the "accepted wisdom" and couldn't be shunted aside even by the general acclaim given to most of the individual episodes in the last two thirds of the season.

I don't get it either...

 

[Londos6]

Hmmm...perhaps I should lock L6 in that forum....

Back to the topic at hand. I didn't like the fact that most of the male telepaths had long silky hair, and most of the females looked like they hadn't bothered to comb their hair at all.

 

[PillowRock]

The telepath arc was rushed and written on the fly;

I don't believe that the telepath arc was written on the fly. It did come off as rushed because it pretty much ran through on its own without being interwoven with the other threads of the B5 tapestry.

I think *that* happened because of the expectation that there wouldn't be a S5. It is my opinion that, had S5 been a given throughout S4, that Byron and his followers would have been introduced in S4. This would have bee well before the resolution of the Earth Civil War. However, it probably would not have happened until after the Shadow War ended, since Byron & Co. would not have volunteered to fight in that war. Giving them asylum makes much more sense at that point. There is absolutely no reason for Sheridan to think that might work after B5 is part of the Alliance which has codefied the respect for each member's sovereignty with respect to their own citizens.


To answer the original question (even though I have never disliked S5 the way that many people do):
I think it is a combination of a few things:

1) The Telepath Arc that fills the first portion of the season feeling more like a mini-series set in the B5 universe than a part of the B5 whole (because of what I described above)

2) A fair number of people really disliked Byron. This is partly on his own merit (or lack of it) and partly because people saw him (on some level) as a Marcus replacement (with the long hair and English accent) and reacted badly to that.

3) A lot of people also really disliked Lochley. I think that this was mostly a knee-jerk reaction to seeing her as having "replaced" (or maybe "displaced") Ivanova. I liked Ivanova better, but on her own merits I didn't think Lochley was nearly as bad of a character as many people's reactions to her would imply.

 

[Elenopa]

I think you've hit the nail on the head Pillowrock.

 

[Enlightened_GKar]

10 Reasons why it fell apart:

1. Byron.
2. Byron's teeps.
3. Sheridan in politics?
4. A general lack of good enemies.
5. The ambassadors stopped acting like individual races with their own agendas, and started acting like a... team. *Shudders.*
6. Ivanova left.
7. Okay, we pushed out the first ones, cleared everything up at home... Crap! We we will have to ask Londo to go dark side again for us.
8. Garibaldi needed to apologize to Sheridan. Desperately.
9. The revelation that the Centauri were behind the terrorist attacks was given WAY too quickly.
10. We spent a whole without a bad guy, and we still did not even get a chance to kill some Drakhs.

 

[vacantlook]

I didn't like the fact that most of the male telepaths had long silky hair, and most of the females looked like they hadn't bothered to comb their hair at all.

You're so not alone in this. While I do like Byron, I dislike the rest of the telepaths. They're a bit too "goth communal living" for me. Now, don't get me wrong, some goth guys can look pretty hot. But, like all things, they should be taken in moderation. It was like a Yanni convention or something. And don't get me wrong again, there are several pieces of music Yanni's written that I enjoy. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's only so many long-haired guys I can see belonging to a single group that supposed to span the breadth of human types before I start to get annoyed. Let's have some variety of people types, damn it!

It is my opinion that, had S5 been a given throughout S4, that Byron and his followers would have been introduced in S4.

I figure that's what would have happened as well. If my memory serves, jms said that he had been able to carry out season four as he had originally planned that with the ending of the Earth Civil War being in the beginning of season five, he would have had room to do a few lighter episodes in the second half of season four. I pretty much figure that these lighter episodes would have been introduction of the Byron character.

A lot of people also really disliked Lochley. I think that this was mostly a knee-jerk reaction to seeing her as having "replaced" (or maybe "displaced") Ivanova.

It was for me. The first time I watched season five, I absolutely hated Lockely. I was pissed that Ivanova wasn't there, and I hated the Ivanova-replacement feeling that Lockely had. But, in having watched season five a couple more times since then, I freely admit that Lockely has grown on me.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

2) A fair number of people really disliked Byron. This is partly on his own merit (or lack of it) and partly because people saw him (on some level) as a Marcus replacement (with the long hair and English accent) and reacted badly to that.

But wasn't that the whole point?

I though the whole idea was that Ivanova was supposed to be attracted to him in the first place because he reminded her of Marcus.

Or am I in need of a shrink, as stated in another thread?

 

[vacantlook]

That's what I've been under the impression was supposed to be the case, GaribaldisHair. Byron was supposed to remind Ivanova of Marcus and be yet another person to leave her in one way or another.

<sigh> Thinking about the direction Ivanova's character was going to go had Claudia remained really makes me kinda sad. It would have been awesome, I think. Her dealing with liking Byron but him killing himself. Her dealing with having to call in Bester to help with the telepath problem. <sigh again>

 

[PillowRock]

Well, yeah, that was originally purposely done because of the affect it would have on Ivanova.

However, with CC's departure that similarity to Marcus lost its relevance. Fans were left watching scenes between a character who was reminiscent of Marcus and one who had replaced Ivanova .... and resenting them both for it.

 

[taichidave]

And most of all, it certainly doesn't contain anything like "Infection" or "TKO" or "Grail".

Season 5 has a few faults, but I don't hate it.

I disagree with the above quote, though.

To me, "Secrets of the Soul" was every bit as bad as the worst Season 1 had to offer. In fact, I put right in there with TKO: Both have horrid A-plots with somewhat interesting B-plots that don't do enough to redeem the episodes.

For me, there was only one truly great moment in the whole episode. Here's a hint: Dr. Franklin wasn't in it. :devil:

 

[vacantlook]

If there is one thing about season five that I have absolutely no problem with, it's the openning credits. The musical theme, the selected sound clips from seasons one through four, the visuals, I like it all and get all excited everytime I watch it.

 

[Stunaep]

hell yeah! One thing that has improved every year from season 1 is the opening credits. Them rock.

And come to think, No Compromises must've been the most boring opener of any series ever. Maybe excluding the Bold and The Beautiful. Fortunately it was redeemed by G'Kar (as usual)

As for Secrets of the Soul, I'm biased, because Lyta got laid.

 

[StarForBram]

I liked season 5. I thought it touched upon a very interesting concept. That is, as humans (normals) we have become used to being the dominant species on Earth. With the emergence of telepaths, normals are perhaps no longer the dominant species. The conflicts presented by this concept were fascinating to me.

 

[Gary_]

I enjoyed Season 5 very much. I enjoyed the teep arc, even though I didn't like Byron or his followers very much, they held the same idea that they were above the "mundanes" as the Psi Corps. And I generally found the entire arc very repetitive (well, until the end of it anyway).

And I absolutely adored the Centauri arc. Even though I think the revelation about who was behind the attacks was given out way too early, I think it would have had a greater impact had we found out when Lennier found out.