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Shadow War Question - Minor Spoiler

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garak0410

Member
Minor Spoiler for some...

I was a little disappointed in the end of the shadow war...with the Vorlons and Shadows going off leaving the "third age of man." Not that it was a bad idea, but I kind of expected the war to go on a little longer...was anti-climatic to me.

Was it just me?

Still got more episodes to view for the first time...saw the first appearance of "The Keepers."...:)
 
Yea, there are B5 fans who just like the big fight and stuff-blowing-up and they were downright mad that JMS took a more clever way out.
 
I don't mind the way it went out...I just had a feeling that the entire Season 4 would be the war...that's all.
 
garak0410 said:
I don't mind the way it went out...I just had a feeling that the entire Season 4 would be the war...that's all.
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The IA didn't stand a chance of winning an all out actual war, it wouldn't have been realistic if it had gone the way some expected it to. The Series was never just about the Shadow War, it was always meant to hit all the points it did.
 
I believe either in script books or on the DVD jms stated that since both the Shadows and the Vorlons were so much older and therefore (as scifi logic typically goes) more advanced that the only way the war could have been won as it worked out. Although, you are correct in saying it felt short because "Into the Fire" was originally intended to be a two-parter but because jms knew Warners might tell him to pack it up jms couldn't quite do the big finish to the Shadow/Vorlon he intended.

Read his comments here. As he says if he hadn't been rushed and he would have made the two-parter the war still would have ended the exact same way.
 
Exactly...I didn't mind the way it ended...just thought it would come later...so thus, as I was not ready for it, that ending was anti-climatic to me.
 
garak0410 said:
Exactly...I didn't mind the way it ended...just thought it would come later...so thus, as I was not ready for it, that ending was anti-climatic to me.
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In a sense, I think it was meant to be a little, because the end of the Shadow War feeds into something else, which you will see played out by the end of S4. To have the Shadow war play out grand as some expected it to, would've made the rest of the series a bit anti-climactic.
 
garak0410 said:
Exactly...I didn't mind the way it ended...just thought it would come later...so thus, as I was not ready for it, that ending was anti-climatic to me.
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I found it anti-climactic the first time I saw it. It seems at this point JMS switches from a parallel storytelling approach to a more sequential one, essentially so that everything can finish tidily and satisfactorally at the end of S4. However in retrospect I can appreciate that the first 6 episodes of that season form a very intense mini-arc, that the plot rallies and ratchets up again very quickly after that, and that the latter part of S4 is about as good as it gets. It's just that brief moment at the end of Into the Fire where you feel like you've just run unexpectedly off the edge of a cliff, especially if you didn't know that cliff was coming.
 
On original viewing, it was clear to me that Sheridan's strategy was to pit the Shadows and the Vorlons against each other, in direct combat, in the hopes that they would pretty much wipe each other out, and that his forces, including a few First Ones, could mop up what was left. So, yeah, I was expecting a big space battle, and was just a little disappointed that JMS fooled me, and ended it differently. But, what he did do was fine.
 
I felt the same at the time, but the more personal conclusion to the season with the Earth Civil War more than made up for it.

Season 4 really does rock.
 
:DSeason 4 is my favorite!

And personally, I liked the way the Shadow war ended...despite being one of those people that :D loves it when they blow stuff up! To me, it showed the old guard that the "children" of this age had grown up and were going to live their lives their way.
 
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I was taken by surprise that it ended so quickly, and then I loved that I was taken by surprise. You don't usually get a big showdown like that at the beginning of a season.
 
Yeah, its resolution also fits in with how JMS likes to turn conventions on their head and give you something other than expected..
 
As with the fact that what seemed to be the big, bombastic good-versus-evil fight was actually a war of ideas that was resolved diplomatically with words, and the seeming political/ideological conflict was resolved in the end by pounding the hell out of the bad guys! :D
 
I agree with Boxie and Sindatur... Season 3 is still my all time favorite season because of WWE and Z'Ha'Dum but season 4 is right next to season 3 as my #1 and #2.

Besides what Sindatur said... if season 4 had a whole season on the shadow war with the possibilities that the 5th season woudn't have had happened we would have never seen the Earth/Clark resolution. Granted most of you don't care for the first half of the 5th season but I'm just glad that JMS was able to resolve all the questions by the end of the 4th season...I would have really been upset had season 5 not been made but luckily JMS stood his ground and so thankfully B5 was renewed for one more season.

Alex
 
There was plenty of stuff blown up in the final battle. It just wasn't a military victory that actually "won" it.

Realistically, the way the power of the Shadows and Vorlons was set up there was no way that Sheridans forces were going to win a straight up battle.

The only battle where Sheridans forces took on the Shadows in straight up combat it took two of his ships to take down every Shadow ship plus a bunch of ships full of telepaths.

There is no indication that the Vorlons had a similiar vulnerability to telepaths so there is no real way that Sheridan could've taken on both sides at once and won.
 
Jade Jaguar said:
Except the way I state in post #9. :D
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Except I don't think that would've happened.

The only times that the Vorlons were shown engaging the Shadows directly was in the episode where the Shadows killed Kosh (original) in retaliation.

In the battle in that episode, the Vorlons were shown to have near complete superiority over the Shadows.

IF the Vorlons had fought only the Shadows (as opposed to the strategies of both sides to focus on wiping out worlds and races that the other might use) then I think the Vorlons would crush the Shadows and dominate the Galaxy.

And Sheridan could see that this was a horrific idea.
 
Actually I disagree. I think the Vorlons and Shadows were supposed to be evenly matched, and the only reason they won that battle so easily was because of the element of surprise. They jumped in right next to some unwary Shadow ships, firing as they came.
 
I did an extensive and way-too-geeky analysis of the "Interludes and Examinations" fight, once, and I came to the conclusion that the Vorlons won that battle because it was Vorlons versus Shadow ships. Remember, the ships are rather autonomous. I don't think there were any actual Shadows there. So, Vorlons + their telepathy vs. a Shadow-built but not Shadow-manned fleet = victory for the Vorlons.

At Corianna 6 I'm sure there were plenty of Shadows on hand.
 
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