Strange naval terminology

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Sweepers, Sweepers, man your brooms... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the Armor on a Battleship is supposed to be about 16 inches thick.
It takes a BIG Hammer to dent it.

The Iowa class battleship hull is still regarded as one of the best the Navy ever built.

I'd love to see what one of them could do if someone dropped a Nuke power plant in and upgraded it to modern armament.
I'd keep at least one of the 16 inch turrets, though.
Just in case we were REALLY annoyed at someone and wanted to spend all day and all night dropping 2000 pound "valentines" on their heads.

For those who don't know, 2000 pounds is the weight of a single round from a Battleship's main guns.
They can hit a target over 30 miles away with pinpoint accuracy.
The WW2 16 inch guns actually have a better Accuracy record than most of our Modern "Smart" weapons.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Wouldn't happen unfortunately, bakana. In this day, missiles are far more cost effective. Although, I agree, there is nothing more spectacular than the sight of the Iowa shifting around 30 ft sideways as a a result of firing a broadside, and the results at the receiving end are almost beautiful, from a certain point of view. The Iraqis called counter-battery rocket artillery "steel rain" during the Gulf War. I wonder what they would have tagged the aforementioned 2 tonne shells from BB-64?

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I am grey, I stand between the candle and the star.
We are grey, we have no bloody fashion sense.

 

[AngelSummers]

Well, using current terminology, it can't be described as a Destroyer or a carrier. Maybe it was called a Destroyer because of the anti-fighter weaponry it carried, which is the actual job of current destroyers I think, to drive away nuisances like fighters while the Battleships do they're jobs and blow the big ones.

Even the coming Warlock, which I pray appears in Rangers is suppose to act as a anti-fighter platform as well. After all, it is suppose to match the Minbari Warcruiser in every respect, not just raw firepower. And that includes dealing with the Nial fighters.

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May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Caesar:
Wouldn't happen unfortunately, bakana. In this day, missiles are far more cost effective. Although, I agree, there is nothing more spectacular than the sight of the Iowa shifting around 30 ft sideways as a a result of firing a broadside, and the results at the receiving end are almost beautiful, from a certain point of view. The Iraqis called counter-battery rocket artillery "steel rain" during the Gulf War. I wonder what they would have tagged the aforementioned 2 tonne shells from BB-64?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


My step-dad served on an LST in WWII as a Chief Petty Officer, and he told me that when the battleships fired over them (shore bombardment prior to the LSTs going in and delivering the troops, tanks, etc.), that the vibration from the shells passing over them would rattle their lunch trays right off the tables. I imagine the broadside of 16" shells landing must have been impressive as well.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[bakana]

Actually, at a $Million per shot, modern missles are Not as cost effective as a Battleship.
And their failure rate is embarassing as well.
After the the Gulf War, it was revealed that the figures given journalists for the Patriot's success rate During the war were bald faced LIES.
During the war, they claimed a 90% hit rate.
I seem to recall that the actual success rate was proven to be less than 10% when the truth came out.

But, there IS a very big industry Lobbying budget making sure we continue to buy the "latest & greatest".
Even when, as in the case of the B1 Bomber, the Pentagon says "No Thanks".

Of course, it's always been like that.
During Viet Nam, close to half the casualties American troops took were because of problems with the M-16 rifle.
It sometimes needed to be Cleaned in the middle of a Fight.

The culprit turned out to be the Gunpowder used in making the ammo.
It left a Lot of residue behind when the gun was fired and the residue buildup would cause the gun to Jam after firing a few hundred rounds.
Or, sometimes Less than that.
This was known BEFORE the ammo was made.
There was another type of gunpowder that had no problems. The Army recommended buying the Good stuff.
Unfortunately, the company that made the Bad gunpowder was owned by the Relative of an influential US Senator.

Guess who got the contract to supply Gunpowder for M-16 Ammo?

In the Current conflict, look for the news stories about the defective Batteries in the so called "Smart" bombs.
The company that made the batteries is in Deep Sh!t because they KNEW the batteries were bad before they left the factory.

The bad batteries were shipped anyway because it would cost Too Much Money to only ship the Good ones.
Because their cut rate manufacturing process was producing too many rejects.
So many that, if the Pentagon inspectors had been doing an Honest inspection, the company would probably have lost the contract.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[superbob]

Seeing as I was berated by Kosh N for the loopholes in my previous statement. Is there a web page that I can brush up on my ship class's as well as the various ranks within the defence forces. Preferably a user friendly site with descriptions etc, etc

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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by superbob:
Seeing as I was berated by Kosh N for the loopholes in my previous statement. Is there a web page that I can brush up on my ship class's as well as the various ranks within the defence forces. Preferably a user friendly site with descriptions etc, etc

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>However, EA is the one who's background has the destroyer being a small, fast ship, and the rest of the governments follow more closely the traditional human navy nomenclature. So, things are exactly the reciprocal of the way they ought to be.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ...berated you???

I didn't realize that I'd done so.

Write to me at
macthevorlon@yahoo.com and I'll send you something you'll like, regarding Babylon 5 era ships, etc.

If you're looking for the background I mentioned, a good place to look is the library, specifically the WWI and WWII naval history books.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US). http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited January 17, 2002).]

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Actually, at a $Million per shot, modern missles are Not as cost effective as a Battleship.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Plus, a battleship salvo is really impressive to anybody who sees it. It may not have the range of a missile, but it's still damned impressive on a gut level.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by bakana:
During Viet Nam, close to half the casualties American troops took were because of problems with the M-16 rifle.
It sometimes needed to be Cleaned in the middle of a Fight.

The culprit turned out to be the Gunpowder used in making the ammo.
It left a Lot of residue behind when the gun was fired and the residue buildup would cause the gun to Jam after firing a few hundred rounds.
Or, sometimes Less than that.
This was known BEFORE the ammo was made.
There was another type of gunpowder that had no problems. The Army recommended buying the Good stuff.
Unfortunately, the company that made the Bad gunpowder was owned by the Relative of an influential US Senator.

Guess who got the contract to supply Gunpowder for M-16 Ammo?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's utterly disgusting. I knew about the jamming problem, but never heard this reason for it. How any American citizen could deliberately endanger the life of another American citizen for money/increased profit margin, is sickening. The same goes for Enron executives, w.r.t. their stock cash-in based on insider info. and the employee's 401K's. That's pure THEFT.

Some people should get life in prison, and have all their assets seized, for these crimes.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by bakana:
In the Current conflict, look for the news stories about the defective Batteries in the so called "Smart" bombs.
The company that made the batteries is in Deep Sh!t because they KNEW the batteries were bad before they left the factory.

The bad batteries were shipped anyway because it would cost Too Much Money to only ship the Good ones.
Because their cut rate manufacturing process was producing too many rejects.
So many that, if the Pentagon inspectors had been doing an Honest inspection, the company would probably have lost the contract.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's no end to graft and corruption, is there?

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US). http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited January 17, 2002).]

 

[bakana]

Well, the Enron mess has even Republicans pissed.

A cynical person might suspect some of them Also lost a lot of money.

Oh, as far as the US Navy ship classification web site, try:
http://www.nvr.navy.mil/class.htm

Note that, since it's an Official DOD website, it's about as accurate as they get.

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:

Oh, as far as the US Navy ship classification web site, try:
http://www.nvr.navy.mil/class.htm

Note that, since it's an Official DOD website, it's about as accurate as they get.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the link. While WWI & WWII battles and the navies of those eras were a hobby of mine when I was in High School, I didn't have much info. on the modern U.S. Navy. Cool site.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[A_M_Swallow]

It may be useful to post the link to the DOD classifications on the rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated newsgroup where JMS and the artists can find it.

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Andrew Swallow