Telepaths ---season 5 -- how do you rate them?

[Trollheart]

Title doesn't really explain my question too well, sorry.
What I mean is, rewatching season 5 now, I groaned inwardly when Byron made his appearance, because to me at least, the telepaths who came to form a colony on Babylon 5 were underused and badly-written, if such a criticism can be levelled at the Great Maker! :devil:

The character of Byron jarred with me from the off: he was dark, moody, brooding and seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. Yes, I KNOW the galaxy had screwed he and his people over, but come on! He was more like a character out of one of Anne Rice's vampire novels than a leader of a people, a potential Moses!

And as for the story about Simon, the kid: surely that deserved further development? It looked like it could have been an interesting story, but no, he's killed in the episode in which he's introduced. The rest of the teeps were never fleshed out in any way, so that it seemed to be Byron leading around a nondescript rag-tag band of followers, like some telepahtic Jesus (no offence meant!), with Lyta hanging on in later eps. Where was the structure?

What did they contribute to the story? Yes, there was the "big reveal" and the fact that this ended up being one of Sheridan's worst and most miscalculated mistakes, but other than that, what did they do?

Now admittedly I'm just getting into season 5 again, "Very long night" on tonight, so perhaps I've forgotten something important. So does anyone feel differently? Or did the "Telepath colony" plotline take up valuable space in the story that could, perhaps, have been better used?

Interested to know your thoughts....

 

[Sindatur]

Title doesn't really explain my question too well, sorry.
What I mean is, rewatching season 5 now, I groaned inwardly when Byron made his appearance, because to me at least, the telepaths who came to form a colony on Babylon 5 were underused and badly-written, if such a criticism can be levelled at the Great Maker! :devil:

The character of Byron jarred with me from the off: he was dark, moody, brooding and seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. Yes, I KNOW the galaxy had screwed he and his people over, but come on! He was more like a character out of one of Anne Rice's vampire novels than a leader of a people, a potential Moses!

And as for the story about Simon, the kid: surely that deserved further development? It looked like it could have been an interesting story, but no, he's killed in the episode in which he's introduced. The rest of the teeps were never fleshed out in any way, so that it seemed to be Byron leading around a nondescript rag-tag band of followers, like some telepahtic Jesus (no offence meant!), with Lyta hanging on in later eps. Where was the structure?

What did they contribute to the story? Yes, there was the "big reveal" and the fact that this ended up being one of Sheridan's worst and most miscalculated mistakes, but other than that, what did they do?

Now admittedly I'm just getting into season 5 again, "Very long night" on tonight, so perhaps I've forgotten something important. So does anyone feel differently? Or did the "Telepath colony" plotline take up valuable space in the story that could, perhaps, have been better used?

Interested to know your thoughts....

Hi TrollHeart, welcome to B5TV, we're always anxious to hear from new posters

Yes, most didn't really like the Telepath arc, as you say the characters were annoying and shallow.

On Simon, JMS had an affinity against "Cute Kids", so I suspect that's why Simon didn't get to last, but, he did contribute the anger the Telepaths boiled over with.

I suspect, had it not been for the cancellation threat at the end of S4, the Telepath Arc would've been much better. They would've been spread voer more episodes. From what I understand the intention was to introduce their arrival to the station during the last 4-6 episodes of S4, and the Earth Civil War wouldn't have wrapped up so quickly in those last 4 four episodes of S4. So, some of Season 5 would been better paced by starting it earlier and some of S4 would've been better paced by moving it into S5. This would also have cured the cold start "Start over" of S5, and would've given a much smoother flow to series in general.

 

[Trollheart]

Thx for the quick reply, Sindatur! Nice to know I'm welcome...

I think tbh JMS missed what could have been a major development in the plot, where when Lyta and Byron "get together", he sees in her mind how Sheridan used the captured/liberated teeps from "SoT", and his anger leads him to perhaps declare a sort of war on the station, ending in a (much more satisfying --- self-immolation is SO last century!) final stand-off where the teeps are all killed, leaving Sheridan with a huge sense of guilt, which could perhaps colour his future dealings with telepaths, perhaps even bring Bester back into it?

I'm not saying they should not have been there, just that they were too "incidental": they didn't make any real significant contribution to the plot, and I'm pretty sure the majority of viewers, well, just didnt like them!

As for Simon, well fair enough, but JMS created the characters, so couldn't he have made the kid less cute, more out-of-control, angry, maybe scar his face? To say he dumped the character, as it were, because he was too cute, isn't really an answer. HE made him too cute, and he didn't have to.

That's my ramblings for now, anyway..

 

[KoshN]

Title doesn't really explain my question too well, sorry.
What I mean is, rewatching season 5 now, I groaned inwardly when Byron made his appearance, because to me at least, the telepaths who came to form a colony on Babylon 5 were underused and badly-written, if such a criticism can be levelled at the Great Maker! :devil:

The character of Byron jarred with me from the off: he was dark, moody, brooding and seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. Yes, I KNOW the galaxy had screwed he and his people over, but come on! He was more like a character out of one of Anne Rice's vampire novels than a leader of a people, a potential Moses!

Hope showing a different group isn't against the rules, but this was too good to pass up.

http://jmsnews.com/forums/showpost.php?p=60221&postcount=49

http://jmsnews.com/forums/showpost.php?p=60222&postcount=50

And as for the story about Simon, the kid: surely that deserved further development? It looked like it could have been an interesting story, but no, he's killed in the episode in which he's introduced. The rest of the teeps were never fleshed out in any way, so that it seemed to be Byron leading around a nondescript rag-tag band of followers, like some telepahtic Jesus (no offence meant!), with Lyta hanging on in later eps. Where was the structure?

What did they contribute to the story? Yes, there was the "big reveal" and the fact that this ended up being one of Sheridan's worst and most miscalculated mistakes, but other than that, what did they do?

Now admittedly I'm just getting into season 5 again, "Very long night" on tonight, so perhaps I've forgotten something important. So does anyone feel differently? Or did the "Telepath colony" plotline take up valuable space in the story that could, perhaps, have been better used?

Interested to know your thoughts....

I don't think JMS ever intended to get into any of the teeps except Byron and Lyta (was supposed to be Ivanova.) in Season 5. It's almost like the group of doctors in the room (the "team") when Capt. Gideon is introduced to Dr. Chambers in Crusade's "War Zone." They're all short timers.

 

[KoshN]

....the cold start "Start over" of S5, and would've given a much smoother flow to series in general.

That, cold start "Start over" of S5 was definitely a bummer. B5 got better and better every season through Season 4, and then with the beginning of Season 5, it hit the floor with a splat. It took until Byron got roasted for it to find its footing again.

 

[A_Ranger]

I have mixed feelings on the Byron arc. I liked Byron okay most of the time, but I didn't like how he could seem so ungrateful. For example, when Sheridan and Lochley stick their necks out for them, he thanks them, but doesn't seem very thankful. That always bothered me. The other teeps were much worse. They practically wouldn't talk to any "mundanes." They were always giving people the cold shoulder, which seemed ridiculously rude considering they were graciously granted a place on B5. I understand that they aren't trusting after being through hell because of Psi-Corp and "mundane" oppression, but there were times they could have been more friendly.

I thought JMS bungled up Byron's sudden turn to the dark side. I understood their feelings of being used after Lyta's revelation, but even still, I thought Bryon should have genuinely given the council a chance to say yes to their demand. He threatened them far too quickly, before they had even considered his demand. And the fact that it was a demand right from the start, and not a request always rubbed me the wrong way. I think he should have asked politely and genuinely first, and then, if they turned him down revealed their blackmail. I think perhaps JMS was going for irrationality/making a big mistake because of anger, which I personally understand entirely, but I don't think it played very well.

Despite the problems with the arc, I think it played decently. It gave us a huge mistake for Sheridan, pushed Lyta forward and really pays off at the end of the season for Lyta's arc. It also made for some great moments between Lyta and Zack.

 

[A_Ranger]

That, cold start "Start over" of S5 was definitely a bummer. B5 got better and better every season through Season 4, and then with the beginning of Season 5, it hit the floor with a splat. It took until Byron got roasted for it to find its footing again.

I have to disagree with you there. Although I agree it didn't really get back to the level of greatness with the arc stories until halfway through the season, I think it was on top of its game with the non-arc episodes "The Long Night of Londo Mollari" and "A View From the Gallery."

 

[Trollheart]

That, cold start "Start over" of S5 was definitely a bummer. B5 got better and better every season through Season 4, and then with the beginning of Season 5, it hit the floor with a splat. It took until Byron got roasted for it to find its footing again.

I have to disagree with you there. Although I agree it didn't really get back to the level of greatness with the arc stories until halfway through the season, I think it was on top of its game with the non-arc episodes "The Long Night of Londo Mollari" and "A View From the Gallery."

I agree. Two excellent episodes, after a "ho hum" run-of-the-mill opener.
One point though on TVLNOLM: the whole crux of the episode seems to be built around Londo's inability/unwillingness to apologise: he says he never has before. But that's not true,
In "The Gathering", he's tackled by Garibaldi about changing his vote in council which allows the Vorlons to demand extradition of Sinclair to the Vorlon homeworld, and he says something like (not exact, it's a while since I watched it)--- "If that's true then it's my failing, my fault, and I'm sorry."
Nitpick over.

"I nevr apologise, Lisa. I'm sorry, but that's just how I am!" --- Homer J

 

[Trollheart]

I would also agree with the general feeling that Byron was ungrateful, for want of a better word. His whole manner, from the time he arrived on B5, was sullen, argumentative and extremely superior. Even when he first contacts Lochley to ask for asylum, he more or less orders her to meet him.
He needed a slap.
I think someone more easy going would have garnered more sympathy than he did. Most of the time people were probably thinking "stuck-up little ponce. Thinks he's better than me!"
And he did.

As for the other telepaths being "bit players", I don't see that. If the idea is to have a colony, you can't have one guy (and later his bit of fluff) plus many extras, especially when JMS had seemingly tried to make us interested in the teeps with, again, Simon. He even had Byron introduce some, and make some comments which, on the face of it, could have led to interesting experiences. But nothing came of any of them. It's almost like he decided it was too much bother, or not a good idea to introduce us to the telepaths, and sadly, because he did this, there was no-one for the viewer to judge them by except (say it with me) Byron.
And who would possibly empathise with him?
Quite how he became their leader is beyond me. Did all the teeps have a "sulk-off", and he won?

 

[Galahad]

There's a difference between making an apology for a mistake, an error or something you have done wrong, and making an apology for what you have become.

Londo isn't just apologising for the pain he caused G'Kar, he's apologising for the entire path he walked that led him to being the person who could have acted in such a way.

 

[Trollheart]

There's a difference between making an apology for a mistake, an error or something you have done wrong, and making an apology for what you have become.

Londo isn't just apologising for the pain he caused G'Kar, he's apologising for the entire path he walked that led him to being the person who could have acted in such a way.

I know. It's just that Londo uses the words "I've never apologised for anything in my life." Kind of comprehensive...

 

[KoshN]

That, cold start "Start over" of S5 was definitely a bummer. B5 got better and better every season through Season 4, and then with the beginning of Season 5, it hit the floor with a splat. It took until Byron got roasted for it to find its footing again.

I have to disagree with you there. Although I agree it didn't really get back to the level of greatness with the arc stories until halfway through the season, I think it was on top of its game with the non-arc episodes "The Long Night of Londo Mollari" and "A View From the Gallery."

As far as I'm concerned, every episode that showed Byron and the teeps he brought with him, was the worse for it. Sure, there were good threads in those episodes that didn't involve Byron and the teeps he brought with him, but, on the whole, the episode was brought down by Byron and those teeps. Once Byron and those teeps were gone, it was like a pall had been lifted off of the season. As far as Byron being ungrateful, I agree. He was usually also sullen and resentful.

I never liked "A View from the Gallery." "The Long Night of Londo Mollari" was OK.

Another problem I had with Season 5 is to do with the Byron and his teeps, Bester & Psi Corps, and Lochley. IIRC (haven't watched the eps. in a couple years.), first the teeps arrive, Bester wants to take them in, Sherdan gives them asylum, Lochley kicks Bester out, the teeps cause trouble, Lochley calls Bester back to B5, the fight begins, the teeps are leaving and then they torch themselves. Rogue teeps are coming, going, staying, going and then commit suicide. Seemed like padding to fill a season.

 

[KoshN]

As for the other telepaths being "bit players", I don't see that. If the idea is to have a colony, you can't have one guy (and later his bit of fluff) plus many extras, especially when JMS had seemingly tried to make us interested in the teeps with, again, Simon. He even had Byron introduce some, and make some comments which, on the face of it, could have led to interesting experiences. But nothing came of any of them.

Similarly, in Crusade's "War Zone," almost all of the medical team was introduced (by Senator McQuate to Capt. Gideon), and we never saw or heard about any of them ever again.

It's almost like he decided it was too much bother, or not a good idea to introduce us to the telepaths, and sadly, because he did this, there was no-one for the viewer to judge them by except (say it with me) Byron.
And who would possibly empathise with him?
Quite how he became their leader is beyond me. Did all the teeps have a "sulk-off", and he won?

Sounds about right. OTOH, maybe he was just their strongest teep, and the one most likely to be able to stand up to Bester. Byron was a P-12.

 

[maneth]

I never liked the telepath arc much, and Byron only made things worse. I just wanted Bester to come and take them away most of the time.

 

[Lousy_Dodgers]

I am curious if JMS has ever addressed Byron's unpopularity with many B5 fans at a convention. Did the fan reaction surprise him? To an extent, I think the response to Byron is intended as originally, we were supposed to see Bryon as the wrong person for Ivanova. If the character is too sympathetic, then audience members might not draw that conclusion.

Someone mentioned that there originally were to be more telepath episodes but I think that is opposite what had been planned. My understanding was that the telepath arc was to have been much shorter as what we saw as the closing episodes of season 4 would have served as the opening to season 5.

 

[vorlonlovechild]

I just thought the whole 'telepath' arc was hillarious. Worst part of B5 for me.

We will all come together in a better place"? lol

 

[dreamer]

I've had that "we all come together..." playing in my head this whole damn morning.

I have a theory. The actors who played the telepaths acted that way because they hoped that they'd go unnoticed (and through that get paid) by the production crew and sent home because the whole damn idea stank like a dead nakaleen.

 

[Recoil]

I am curious if JMS has ever addressed Byron's unpopularity with many B5 fans at a convention. Did the fan reaction surprise him? To an extent, I think the response to Byron is intended as originally, we were supposed to see Bryon as the wrong person for Ivanova. If the character is too sympathetic, then audience members might not draw that conclusion.

Whoever said Byron was SUPPOSED to be popular? Maybe he was received by fans just as he was meant to be. An oddly annoying, poetic, cultist, hippie.

I think the actor nailed the role very well, and it came off exactly as it should. We weren't supposed to like Byron. If anything, we were supposed to watch how cults are created. I don't think we were supposed to like him like Zathras or Markas.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

I think the actor nailed the role very well, and it came off exactly as it should. We weren't supposed to like Byron. If anything, we were supposed to watch how cults are created. I don't think we were supposed to like him like Zathras or Markas.

Cult leaders have to be likeable otherwise no one would follow them.

 

[Sindatur]

I think the actor nailed the role very well, and it came off exactly as it should. We weren't supposed to like Byron. If anything, we were supposed to watch how cults are created. I don't think we were supposed to like him like Zathras or Markas.

Cult leaders have to be likeable otherwise no one would follow them.

Byron was likable to his cult. They were all opporessed and abused telepaths looking for equal rights and he was showing them the way to fight for that equality. Cult leaders don't have to be appealing to the masses, only to their target audience