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Terminator Judgment Day
- Thread starter Alluveal
- Start date
GKarsEye
Regular
That's a funny line, but "new" Hollywood? Haven't people been making that criticism for like 30 yrs?
Alluveal
Regular
vacantlook
Super Moderator
There's a reason I enjoy the first two Terminator movies: they're compelling. I take it this new one is not compelling but just an almost generic action flick?
Recoil
Regular
OK,
So I just saw this movie today. Honestly, Alluveal, while I haven't always had exactly the same thoughts as you on movies and such, usually I am in the same ballpark you are in. But this time I really have to wonder...did you and I see the same movie?!?!?
It wasn't the best movie ever. It might not have been the best of the Terminator franchise. But "sucked ass" and "festering turd" DO NOT APPLY to this movie in my opinion. I actually really liked it. Hell I thought the plot/story was better than Star Trek!
Clearly this movie was a visual masterpiece. The storyboards for the action sequences were all done very well. And, lets face it, Terminator is really an action movie franchise, and always has been. This movie blows the others away, and well it should given how technology has improved. Visually, this movie was stunning, but I guess I expected that. One of the scenes that I actually thought was one of the most unique/best done, but probably not one that will linger in people's memories, was where Connor was flying the helicopter and was shot down. Most of it is filmed from inside the cabin, and you think you see the ground moving as the helicopter spins, then it hits the ground. You think it was a safe crash landing and that Conner got it down in one piece....until he undoes his seatbelt and he falls to the ceiling and you realize the helicopter is upside down. I thought that whole sequence was just cool.
But the story and plot I also thought was VERY well done, and reminded me a lot of the themes of Terminator 2. The plot made sense, and it flowed, and when I was done watching the movie, I clearly understood where it fell in the Terminator timeline. In fact their were only two scenes in the movie that really left me with the "huh? really?" feeling.
SPOILERS BELOW
So here are some things I especially liked about it.
Lots of references to the prior movies --- mostly the first two. IMO casting Bryce Dallas Howard as Connor's girlfriend was the only close homage to the third movie...given Claire Danes was in that role as a red head and those two look somewhat similar. Aside from that reference (and maybe it wasn't intentional but I made the connection) the third movie wasn't really overly acknowledged. I liked Connor's "Ill be back" line. Obviously Reese's "Come with me if you want to live" was fun to hear especially given his age. But some other little things made me smile. When Connor was trying to bait one of the motorcycle terminators, he turned on a Boom Box that was playing the same Guns N Roses song "You Could Be Mine" that was the staple of Terminator 2. I thought that was just plain cool. Then....near the end seeing the T800s being built for the first time was cool enough...but when Arnold walked around the corner and gave that look I loved it. I don't know if it was actually him...and just heavily airbrushed. Or his likeness was taken from prior movies and CGId in....but it looked VERY REAL. It was just great seeing Arnie on the big screen in that role again until they burned the flesh away and we were left with the classic T800 skeleton. Still, loved that they did that.
I thought the story itself was great as well. This was almost more the story of Marcus Wright, and his struggle after finding out what he really was. Given his past in real life, his choices were great and central to the story. In the end we were left with a similar message as Terminator 2. Along the lines of "If a machine can find out the value of human life...maybe we can too." I thought his redemption story was very well done, well written, and well acted.
The other main part I liked was that this movie FIT very well with the franchise. When it was over, I realized what we just watched was the period in time where John Connor BECOMES the leader of the resistance. It is a few years before Connor ends up sending Reese back in time, but is one of the "major wins" over Skynet referenced in prior movies. But clearly, his role at the start of the movie and at the end, really emphasize that this is how he became the leader of the resistance that we heard about in the first movie. I liked seeing that come to pass.
Two things that didn't work for me:
The first, and MAIN thing that didn't work for me was the very end, when Marcus Wright's fate is determined. So the message of this movie was how a machine that thinks he is a human can choose his human spirit and choose to side with humanity and fight for John Connor and the cause. This was more powerful to me than the Terminator in T2 choosing to be lowered into the molten metal. Very well done and played out. But...at the end of the movie...John Connor is dying and his heart is giving out. So Marcus basically says "take mine." My problem with this isn't him offering it up. I thought that delivery was done well, and for his character I get it. He is choosing to save an important HUMAN's life...one who is critical to the cause. His line about "everyone deserves a second chance" was also very well placed and he feels that by doing this and given his recent actions, he is atoning for his prior sins as a human. I get this. What bothers me is John Connor, our big hero, basically going "OK" without a second thought and everyone going along with it. After his speech about humans shouldn't think like machines, and how he "saw the man" that was Marcus and trusted him...why would the great John Connor LET Marcus sacrifice himself to save John? So I guess it wasn't the act that bothered me, it was that John Connor was so easily willing to do it. Just seemed a bit off to me after seeing the whole thing.
The other part of the movie I wasn't wild about, and it wasn't critical, was HOW it ended. Basically, we are somewhat told that "we won a big one, but Skynet's global network is still out there and we will never give up." So no closure to the franchise. I was hoping I was going to see the FINAL installment in the terminator story. What I ended up seeing was the story of how John Connor became the leader of the resistance, and its still a few years before Reese goes back in time...but basically that this all already happened. While on one hand I thought that was neat, on the other, I wanted some closure to the franchise, and I THOUGHT this movie was going to be it. So its not disappointment in the movie itself, but that my expectations were wrong and not met. I really did like the movie, but was hoping for a finle versus another middle chapter of sorts.
So all in all I thought it was really solid. One final interesting note...the part in the movie trailers where John Connor says "this isn't the future my mother warned me about" was NEVER SAID in the movie that I remember. And the way the story played out...it really WAS the future she knew about and prepared him for. The only unknown part was Marcus Wright....but if Reese never completely understood it, and he was a one-off creation, its logical Reese would have never told Sarah and Sarah never told John. So its funny that was in the trailers but not in the actual movie.
Anyway, really liked it. I'd bet a majority of you here will as well.
So I just saw this movie today. Honestly, Alluveal, while I haven't always had exactly the same thoughts as you on movies and such, usually I am in the same ballpark you are in. But this time I really have to wonder...did you and I see the same movie?!?!?
It wasn't the best movie ever. It might not have been the best of the Terminator franchise. But "sucked ass" and "festering turd" DO NOT APPLY to this movie in my opinion. I actually really liked it. Hell I thought the plot/story was better than Star Trek!
Clearly this movie was a visual masterpiece. The storyboards for the action sequences were all done very well. And, lets face it, Terminator is really an action movie franchise, and always has been. This movie blows the others away, and well it should given how technology has improved. Visually, this movie was stunning, but I guess I expected that. One of the scenes that I actually thought was one of the most unique/best done, but probably not one that will linger in people's memories, was where Connor was flying the helicopter and was shot down. Most of it is filmed from inside the cabin, and you think you see the ground moving as the helicopter spins, then it hits the ground. You think it was a safe crash landing and that Conner got it down in one piece....until he undoes his seatbelt and he falls to the ceiling and you realize the helicopter is upside down. I thought that whole sequence was just cool.
But the story and plot I also thought was VERY well done, and reminded me a lot of the themes of Terminator 2. The plot made sense, and it flowed, and when I was done watching the movie, I clearly understood where it fell in the Terminator timeline. In fact their were only two scenes in the movie that really left me with the "huh? really?" feeling.
SPOILERS BELOW
So here are some things I especially liked about it.
Lots of references to the prior movies --- mostly the first two. IMO casting Bryce Dallas Howard as Connor's girlfriend was the only close homage to the third movie...given Claire Danes was in that role as a red head and those two look somewhat similar. Aside from that reference (and maybe it wasn't intentional but I made the connection) the third movie wasn't really overly acknowledged. I liked Connor's "Ill be back" line. Obviously Reese's "Come with me if you want to live" was fun to hear especially given his age. But some other little things made me smile. When Connor was trying to bait one of the motorcycle terminators, he turned on a Boom Box that was playing the same Guns N Roses song "You Could Be Mine" that was the staple of Terminator 2. I thought that was just plain cool. Then....near the end seeing the T800s being built for the first time was cool enough...but when Arnold walked around the corner and gave that look I loved it. I don't know if it was actually him...and just heavily airbrushed. Or his likeness was taken from prior movies and CGId in....but it looked VERY REAL. It was just great seeing Arnie on the big screen in that role again until they burned the flesh away and we were left with the classic T800 skeleton. Still, loved that they did that.
I thought the story itself was great as well. This was almost more the story of Marcus Wright, and his struggle after finding out what he really was. Given his past in real life, his choices were great and central to the story. In the end we were left with a similar message as Terminator 2. Along the lines of "If a machine can find out the value of human life...maybe we can too." I thought his redemption story was very well done, well written, and well acted.
The other main part I liked was that this movie FIT very well with the franchise. When it was over, I realized what we just watched was the period in time where John Connor BECOMES the leader of the resistance. It is a few years before Connor ends up sending Reese back in time, but is one of the "major wins" over Skynet referenced in prior movies. But clearly, his role at the start of the movie and at the end, really emphasize that this is how he became the leader of the resistance that we heard about in the first movie. I liked seeing that come to pass.
Two things that didn't work for me:
The first, and MAIN thing that didn't work for me was the very end, when Marcus Wright's fate is determined. So the message of this movie was how a machine that thinks he is a human can choose his human spirit and choose to side with humanity and fight for John Connor and the cause. This was more powerful to me than the Terminator in T2 choosing to be lowered into the molten metal. Very well done and played out. But...at the end of the movie...John Connor is dying and his heart is giving out. So Marcus basically says "take mine." My problem with this isn't him offering it up. I thought that delivery was done well, and for his character I get it. He is choosing to save an important HUMAN's life...one who is critical to the cause. His line about "everyone deserves a second chance" was also very well placed and he feels that by doing this and given his recent actions, he is atoning for his prior sins as a human. I get this. What bothers me is John Connor, our big hero, basically going "OK" without a second thought and everyone going along with it. After his speech about humans shouldn't think like machines, and how he "saw the man" that was Marcus and trusted him...why would the great John Connor LET Marcus sacrifice himself to save John? So I guess it wasn't the act that bothered me, it was that John Connor was so easily willing to do it. Just seemed a bit off to me after seeing the whole thing.
The other part of the movie I wasn't wild about, and it wasn't critical, was HOW it ended. Basically, we are somewhat told that "we won a big one, but Skynet's global network is still out there and we will never give up." So no closure to the franchise. I was hoping I was going to see the FINAL installment in the terminator story. What I ended up seeing was the story of how John Connor became the leader of the resistance, and its still a few years before Reese goes back in time...but basically that this all already happened. While on one hand I thought that was neat, on the other, I wanted some closure to the franchise, and I THOUGHT this movie was going to be it. So its not disappointment in the movie itself, but that my expectations were wrong and not met. I really did like the movie, but was hoping for a finle versus another middle chapter of sorts.
So all in all I thought it was really solid. One final interesting note...the part in the movie trailers where John Connor says "this isn't the future my mother warned me about" was NEVER SAID in the movie that I remember. And the way the story played out...it really WAS the future she knew about and prepared him for. The only unknown part was Marcus Wright....but if Reese never completely understood it, and he was a one-off creation, its logical Reese would have never told Sarah and Sarah never told John. So its funny that was in the trailers but not in the actual movie.
Anyway, really liked it. I'd bet a majority of you here will as well.
Last edited:
Alluveal
Regular
Well, we all have varying tastes. I do concede that some of the visuals/graphics were absolutely wonderful. I really did like that one scene you mentioned with the helicopter. It was like one, long, continuous shot and BOOM, we're upside down. That was really impressive.
I just thought so much of it was cliche, tired and schmoopy. The chick who "Fell for" Marcus was just annoying. The whole "thing" between them was just too over the top sentimental and unbelievable.
Though I did like the Marcus-storyline more than I did the John Connor storyline all in all (minus cliche-mute child and the "omg, you're a machine, but I wuv you" crap.) I liked Marcus. I thought he was a compelling character.
There was just too much wrong with it for me to call it anything but a turd. But even a turd has its few shining moments.
I'm glad you liked it. I'm glad someone did!
I just thought so much of it was cliche, tired and schmoopy. The chick who "Fell for" Marcus was just annoying. The whole "thing" between them was just too over the top sentimental and unbelievable.
Though I did like the Marcus-storyline more than I did the John Connor storyline all in all (minus cliche-mute child and the "omg, you're a machine, but I wuv you" crap.) I liked Marcus. I thought he was a compelling character.
There was just too much wrong with it for me to call it anything but a turd. But even a turd has its few shining moments.
I'm glad you liked it. I'm glad someone did!
Recoil
Regular
I read an article about Christian Bale whining about his role in the movie, no not that article about him going off on a lighting guy who wandered on set, but another article. He felt that his role (John Connor) was far far too small given (a) his importance as an actor and (b) John Connors history in the franchise. He demanded a re-write of that role. Not sure how much of it is true, but I believe originally this movie was to be more about Marcus Wright and John Connor was a much smaller part.
For what its worth...I actually think Bale was right, and I think they expanded it to just the right amount. It would have been tough to imagine this movie with a lot less Connor scenes, and probably a bad move.
For what its worth...I actually think Bale was right, and I think they expanded it to just the right amount. It would have been tough to imagine this movie with a lot less Connor scenes, and probably a bad move.
FaceOfGkar
Member
If you mean salvation, I liked it. Was it as good as the originals? No. Did it have cliches? You bet. But it was pass-able, and fun to watch. This film I found to be the opposite of Star Trek. When watching Star Trek, the less you thought about the original material the better the film it was. With Terminator, it was the opposite - the less you thought about the source material, the more generic (and lame) an action movie it became. By connecting it to the original series I found it to be interesting - to think "So this is what they were fighting about in those first two films all along." Then again though, it did feel way too "modern" compared to the sci-fi battles Cameron depicated in the orginal two.
The problem with Termaintor Salvataion was that it had no plot. It was one big set up movie. Hopefully they'll focus on the time travel stuff in the next movie, because that's what I think will make for a good Terminator in the future story, not so much this drama between humans and resistance disagreements and so on.
The problem with Termaintor Salvataion was that it had no plot. It was one big set up movie. Hopefully they'll focus on the time travel stuff in the next movie, because that's what I think will make for a good Terminator in the future story, not so much this drama between humans and resistance disagreements and so on.
GKarsEye
Regular
Recoil, you didn't really expect a modern action movie, especially one that's part of a franchise, to end with closure, did you? Of course it would be open for sequels.
I haven't seen this yet but at least a sequel would make sense here: they could easily wrap a decent plot line around the exact circumstances that lead to Connor sending Reese back to 1984.
If I wrote that movie, I would send him back to prevent Sammy Hagar from joining Van Halen.
I haven't seen this yet but at least a sequel would make sense here: they could easily wrap a decent plot line around the exact circumstances that lead to Connor sending Reese back to 1984.
If I wrote that movie, I would send him back to prevent Sammy Hagar from joining Van Halen.
Recoil
Regular
No, not really. But if this was going to be the last movie, it would have been nice to see some closure to the franchise. Perhaps they are going to make yet another sequel though if this does well. The only action franchise that I can remember that ended with some closure was The Matrix, but then the second and third one were planned to make it a trilogy with an end. Of course, as we know, those two movies were pretty weak and that really the first one was the only real gem in that franchise.
Still I'd have liked to see the Terminator franchise either who us Sarah Connor or John Connor defeating Skynet before he can cause Judgment Day, or the future humans defeating Skynet and the machines, instead of this circular stuff we have been seeing since the first movie. You are right though, doubt it will ever happen.
B5_Obsessed
Regular
Better yet, reprogram the terminator to take care of it.
I mean, how many Sammy Hagars can there be in the phone book?
B5_Obsessed
Regular
My son saw it and the first thing he mentioned was the continuous helicopter shot, so it must have been impressive. As for Arnold, what you saw was a complete CGI recreation which was based on scans done on a lifecast taken of Arnold at the Stan Winston studios for the first film. Those effects guys never throw anything away.
FaceOfGkar
Member
You sure about that? I'm almost positive they cut out his face from prior terminator films and merely composed it onto a body builder.
