PillowRock
Regular
Yes, that's a movie. It stars Tim Robbins.
It is, however, a movie that I have never gotten around to seeing.
It is, however, a movie that I have never gotten around to seeing.
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The Anti-Hero
- Thread starter PsionTen
- Start date
Jade Jaguar
Regular
KoshFan, in Seven Samurai, you may have missed a critical, and often cut scene where Toshiro's character admits he is just a farmer, and like other farm people, when he was a kid, he stole from dying samurai in order to survive, and probably helped them on their way to death. I think that makes him an anti-hero in the context of a 'noble samurai' film.
PTen, he was more obviously an anti-hero in Yojimbo, where he deliberately played two warring factions of thugs against each other, getting them to wipe each other out, and selling his services to both sides. Still, I think it was clear from his conversations with the inkeeper, and his actions, that money wasn't his real motive, but the more he demanded from the bad guys, the better his plan worked. In Sanjuro, he looks more like a traditional hero, but he still sells himself to the bad guys, as a ruse of course, which is not a typical hero action. But the most important thing in both of those roles is that he is a ronin, a masterless samurai, which is a disgraceful thing, even a briggand, in Japanese culture.
Probably the greatest Japanese anti-hero is Zatoichi. He is a blind masseur, and a gambler, which is to say a criminal in his society. He is also an incredible swordsman, and a sort of a robinhood character. I think there were about 30 Zatoichi films made in the 60s and 70s, and they are shown on the Sundance Channel on Saturdays. Lots of fun, check them out!
GKE, I love Coen Brothers films, and Raising Arizona is hysterical. Hope you like it!
PTen, he was more obviously an anti-hero in Yojimbo, where he deliberately played two warring factions of thugs against each other, getting them to wipe each other out, and selling his services to both sides. Still, I think it was clear from his conversations with the inkeeper, and his actions, that money wasn't his real motive, but the more he demanded from the bad guys, the better his plan worked. In Sanjuro, he looks more like a traditional hero, but he still sells himself to the bad guys, as a ruse of course, which is not a typical hero action. But the most important thing in both of those roles is that he is a ronin, a masterless samurai, which is a disgraceful thing, even a briggand, in Japanese culture.
Probably the greatest Japanese anti-hero is Zatoichi. He is a blind masseur, and a gambler, which is to say a criminal in his society. He is also an incredible swordsman, and a sort of a robinhood character. I think there were about 30 Zatoichi films made in the 60s and 70s, and they are shown on the Sundance Channel on Saturdays. Lots of fun, check them out!
GKE, I love Coen Brothers films, and Raising Arizona is hysterical. Hope you like it!
KoshFan
Regular
Yes, I don't think I've seen that bit. That does put things in a new light, but to my mind that makes his sacrifice at the end all the more noble. I think that he may start out anti-hero and during the course of the film is redeemed by his actions on the behalf of the village.
But that raises the interesting question of how many antiheroes transmogrify into heroes. That brings Han Solo back into the fold, as in the original version his freewheeling selfish ways are redeemed by coming back to help Luke in the Death Star fight. (After that he's pure hero, making him slightly less interesting.)
B5_Obsessed
Regular
Newman and Redford in "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid"
Vin Diesel in "Pitch Black"
Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter.
And a favorite of mine:
Charleton Heston as George Taylor from "Planet of the Apes". A pessimistic man who he hated people enough to leave the Earth. Shortly after fellow astronaut Brent died trying to stop the Earth's destruction in "Beneath the Planet of the Apes", Taylor went ahead and pushed the button himself.
Likewise for Snake Plissken, who destroyed "the world's last hope for peace" out of sheer spite for the President.
Vin Diesel in "Pitch Black"
Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter.
And a favorite of mine:
Charleton Heston as George Taylor from "Planet of the Apes". A pessimistic man who he hated people enough to leave the Earth. Shortly after fellow astronaut Brent died trying to stop the Earth's destruction in "Beneath the Planet of the Apes", Taylor went ahead and pushed the button himself.
Likewise for Snake Plissken, who destroyed "the world's last hope for peace" out of sheer spite for the President.
The Juche Warrior
Regular
You gotta love Harry Lime from the Third Man. Definitely one of Orsen Welles best roles.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
I agree with GKE that they aren't anti-heroes, but who could love Hannibal Lecter? 
The Juche Warrior
Regular
Hmmm, I suppose so. How about William Holden's character from Stalag 17? Sefton would seem to more fit the bill.
Kraig
Regular
Terrance Stamp in "The Limey"
Gene Hackman in "Heist"
Robert De Niro in "The Score" and "Heat"
Al Pacino in "Dog Day Afternoon"
Forrest Whitaker in "Ghost Dog:The Way of the Samurai"
Steve McQueen in "The Getaway" and "The Sand Pebbles"
Walter Matthau in "Hopscotch" and "Charlie Varrick"
Donald Sutherland and Elliott Gould in "MASH"
Paul Newman in "Hud," "The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean," "Cool Hand Luke," "Hombre" and with Robert Redford in "The Sting," and "Butch Cassady and the Sundance Kid."
Gene Hackman in "Heist"
Robert De Niro in "The Score" and "Heat"
Al Pacino in "Dog Day Afternoon"
Forrest Whitaker in "Ghost Dog:The Way of the Samurai"
Steve McQueen in "The Getaway" and "The Sand Pebbles"
Walter Matthau in "Hopscotch" and "Charlie Varrick"
Donald Sutherland and Elliott Gould in "MASH"
Paul Newman in "Hud," "The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean," "Cool Hand Luke," "Hombre" and with Robert Redford in "The Sting," and "Butch Cassady and the Sundance Kid."
What about the story of the 47 Ronin? They've been regarded as cultural heroes in Japan since the 18th century.
I agree with you... I think people get so caught-up with the ending of Planet of the Apes (and the apes themselves) that they tend to forget what a heartless sonofabitch Taylor is. If I'm not mistaken, he pretty much says in the very beginning of the movie that humanity can pretty much go to hell for all he cares ... definitely an anti-hero in my book.
EntilZhaDelenn
Regular
I like Seto Kaiba from Yu-Gi-Oh! I know the dubbed version of the anime is not all that great (Considering they used it only as a tool to market the card game). I like him from the manga. He's just completely selfish, cruel, only cares about his little brother, only does things if it furthers his causes, but still ends up being a hero. He's completely awesome.
I just recently got into Rurouni Kenshin, so I couldn't tell you of any anti-heroes in that manga/anime.
I just recently got into Rurouni Kenshin, so I couldn't tell you of any anti-heroes in that manga/anime.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
PsionTen, you are quite correct that The 47 Ronin are legendary Japanese heroes, and ronin can redeem themselves. In this case the 47 ronin's master had been disgraced by a dishonest competing lord, and the master was forced to commit suicide, while his House was dispersed. The 47 swore revenge and vindication, and were successful. If they hadn't been successful, they would still have been in disgrace. This is based on a true story from the early 1700s.
During WW2, great Japanese director, and pacifist Kenji Mizoguchi was 'asked' by the military rulers to make a film of this popular, oft told tale, for use as propaganda. He made a four hour film, with many deaths, and much swordplay, but NONE OF IT TAKES PLACE ON CAMERA! He dwells on the social consequences of the corruption of the antagonist Lord Kira instead! The military rulers had been had, but didn't even know it!
During WW2, great Japanese director, and pacifist Kenji Mizoguchi was 'asked' by the military rulers to make a film of this popular, oft told tale, for use as propaganda. He made a four hour film, with many deaths, and much swordplay, but NONE OF IT TAKES PLACE ON CAMERA! He dwells on the social consequences of the corruption of the antagonist Lord Kira instead! The military rulers had been had, but didn't even know it!
