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The box that lies & the ship that looked like a Shadow...

D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Does anyone know what the deal was with this stuff. Gideon won the box in a poker game. I also heard rumors that the ship that destroyed Gideon's ship was not really a shadow vessel. What's the deal?

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SPOILERS(even though the episodes never aired)


The ship was actually an EA ship made using shadow technology. This would have been revealed in the Crusade 1st season finale.

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"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
Vir - In The Shadow of Z' HA Dum
 
Why would a EU ship destroy another EU ship?

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darth Kirby:
Why would a EU ship destroy another EU ship?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch 4th season B5 - there was a civil war going on, Earth vs. their colonies.

les

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Duh, I didn't realize that Gideon's flashback was that far back. Of course.

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Actually, that precedes the Earth Civil War...

The real reason for the attack was that the Shadow/EA Hybrid was out of control. It wasn't supposed to attack Gideon's ship, but they couldn't stop it either.

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WombatControl
http://www.flarn.com/wombatcontrol/
"Who let the spoo out? Sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh..."
 
Wombat's right.
The box is the Apocalypse Box. It's sentient. It either lies or tells the truth, and you can't tell which. I think it influenced it's last owner to kill himself. No one else should know about it, but it's hinted at in the series that Matheson knows. That's all we know. Oh, and it glows.

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"Gideon says we all have things to hide."
"Does he? How unfortunate, I was hoping he'd come further than that. Well not that it isn't true of course, it's just that one simply doesn't have to say it."

"I was just trying to work out whether a comment from me right now would be most wanted or least needed."
 
The box gives it's owner (victim?) all sorts of usefull information, and as seen in the show it gave Gideon a considerable advantage.

It's just that sometimes, it does some rather bad things...

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WombatControl:
Actually, that precedes the Earth Civil War...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks! I wasn't sure about the timing of the incident, just giving an example when EF ships fired on EF ships.

les

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One of EA's black projects and the Cerebus was in the wrong place at the wrong time, it like how do you keep a secret if evryone knows, kill the ones that arn't suppose to know..

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Emporer Turhan-"How will this end"
Kosh-"In fire"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whitestar90:
One of EA's black projects and the Cerebus was in the wrong place at the wrong time...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If this is true it seems like the military couldn't keep control of itself. All they have to do is say "This Sector is off limits" to all the EF captains and that would be the end of it. No captain in his right mind would go to that sector, and if they "accidentally" wandered there, then I'm sure they recieve a "polite" message informing them to leave. And not only did the Cerberus manage to get there, but the entire Technomage exodus passed through. Sounds to me like the ship went crazy. It wouldn't be the first time Earth messed with Shadow tech and messed up -- remember the ship on Mars that Sheridan had to destroy in Jupiter's atmosphere. And if this is all true, that makes a rather weak season finale -- who would be shocked that EF was trying to use Shadow tech given what we've seen in Babylon 5? We already knew they were dirty, this shouldn't have surprised anyone...

If only the show hadn't been canned....

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Understanding is a three-edged sword.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JazzMan:
If this is true it seems like the military couldn't keep control of itself. All they have to do is say "This Sector is off limits" to all the EF captains and that would be the end of it. No captain in his right mind would go to that sector, and if they "accidentally" wandered there, then I'm sure they recieve a "polite" message informing them to leave. And not only did the Cerberus manage to get there, but the entire Technomage exodus passed through. Sounds to me like the ship went crazy. It wouldn't be the first time Earth messed with Shadow tech and messed up -- remember the ship on Mars that Sheridan had to destroy in Jupiter's atmosphere. And if this is all true, that makes a rather weak season finale -- who would be shocked that EF was trying to use Shadow tech given what we've seen in Babylon 5? We already knew they were dirty, this shouldn't have surprised anyone...

If only the show hadn't been canned....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think it would have made a poor season finale it did have more than one revelation in it.



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Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Deviot:
I don't think it would have made a poor season finale it did have more than one revelation in it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See -- this is why I want to the show to be revived. I've seen enough episodes of B5 to know JMS is a great writer. All I was saying is that a show based on "Oh, those EF guys were using Shadow tech" would've been weak...but I know JMS would've come up with something much more interesting.
Your reply implies that you have some kind of knowledge as to what the first season finale would've been...I haven't been around too long so I may be behind the times but could you tell me what in the world was going on or tell me where I could find out???



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Understanding is a three-edged sword.
 
That box reminds me of Tolkiens MasterRing, equally slippery and has its own will.
That Shadow/hybrid ship.....was it the Teeps perhaps?
Some of Besters or someone elses black project?
I sure would like to see it
wink.gif


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I find your lack of faith
disturbing.
 
The show is all about Shadow tech and Vorlon tech that was left over from when all the First Ones exited known space. The left-over tech is now in the hands of the younger races...

...SPOILERS...

The Excalibur = (partial) Vorlon tech

Matheson (teep) = human teeps were engineered by Vorlons

Ship that destroyed Cerberus = (partial) Shadow tech

Technomage tech = Shadow tech

Drakh plague = Shadow tech

Apocolypse box = First One tech (of some kind) ??

Also, in one of the unfilmed Crusade scripts Dureena has an interesting sword that could have been First One in origin.

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The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father
Trust the Corps

[This message has been edited by Bester (edited April 29, 2001).]
 
Hmmmmm...yeees. You might be right about the sword. In 'The End of the Line', a shimmering sound from the sword wakes up Dureena, and the sword is glowing slightly along the edges. Maybe it is reacting... to the nearby shadow tech? Or possibly Gideon's box? Maybe it's a sort of counterpart for the box? Or maybe it's even the 'Excalibur' itself from Arthurian legends. Maybe we'll never know.

vakie

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Maybe both the Apocolypse Box and the sword are Vorlon tech.

Therefore, maybe the Excalibur becomes the focal point for the leftover Vorlon tech (a teep, the box, the sword, the ship itself).

All of these things could then be used in a "war" against the EF-developed Shadow tech.

It's all just speculation of course!

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The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father
Trust the Corps

[This message has been edited by Bester (edited April 29, 2001).]
 
All this is very interesting, and just makes me wish the show continued even more!
frown.gif
I'm watching it now for the first time and really enjoying it.

The box did confuse me, so glad to have some fill-in on that one!

Does anyone know where if the Crusade scripts are online anywhere?


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Star_TrekMISC261580.jpg
<font size="-2" color="silver">"The Babylon Project was our last, best, hope for peace.
A self-contained world five miles long, located in neutral
territory. A place of commerce and diplomacy for a quarter
of a million humans and aliens. A shining beacon in space,
all alone in the night. It was the dawn of the third age of
mankind, the year the great war came upon us all. This is
the story of the last of the Babylon stations. The year is
2259: the name of the place is Babylon 5."
 
Other stuff that is weird about the box, is that I've read somewhere that in the Crusade writer's bible it is mentioned that there are infact 6 apocalypse boxes, and I think JMS has also mentioned, IIRC, that the box predates the Vorlons and the Shadows, but not Lorien. I wasn't able to find this post though. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

vakie

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Yeah. I think you're right, Vakie.

It reminds me of someone's speculation that each box contains a part of some long-banished entity. Each box is now trying to find the other, thereby reconstructing the entity.

There was even speculation that the Ark of the Covenant was one of these boxes!!!!

I hope that one day we will learn the truth.

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The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father
Trust the Corps

[This message has been edited by Bester (edited April 29, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bester (edited April 29, 2001).]
 
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