The Centauri got screwed!!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well i was watching today's episode of B5, probely like the 12th time i've seen it, but it's the one where they reveal the Centauri being behind the attacks. Now i'm a major Centauri Republic fan personally, and cant help but be mad about it. Looking at it no, everybody was so sure that it was the Centauri they wouldn't even think about the chance that they were wrong, when it was really the drawk the whole time. In that position I would have to say that i'd do the exact same thing they did, and i liked watching the Republic ships mess up those drazi vessels to.

But in whole, what do you think of Sheridan's decision on proper post-war treatment of the Centauri. I mean, he seems to know what he's doing till then, and then he makes a mistake which you would think he wouldn't make. First of all they got lucky through out the whole war the Centauri went lightly on them, and then to demand them to pay back money which would cripple their economy, Take away territory, and regulate their military, It's like i jus beat the living cr*p out of you and now i'll kick you when your down as well. I remind you that we did that to Germany after WWI and looked what happened, And I also remind you what happened to the Alliance, when they did that to the Centauri as well.

Anyway do you think Sheridan did the right thing with this whole Centauri vs. ISA thing???

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you cannot make history, only hope to survive it.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I don't think it was necessaily the right decision on Sheridan's part but I think that he was also pushed into it. When he was talking to Londo it seemed like he was willing to try to work something out but when Londo acted like a complete jerk, it was up to Sheridan to be a strong leader and make the decision that he did. The Centauri did start the war, kind of, and so he responded in a way that was appropriate. How was he to know that the Drahk had set up Centauri Prime? He didn't and therefore could not make a decision based upon that vital piece of information. It was Londo's reaction that forced Sheridan to make the right decision in that situation.

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No one here is exactly what he appears.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Do you remember when Emperor Turhan, on his death bed, asked Kosh "How will this all end?" and Kosh replied "In Fire". This is the beginnig of the end for the Centauri. Also remember Londo in "In the Beginning"..."pride goeth before a fall". Their pride and their system of rule, a monarcharchy, let's this happen. It shows you that Londo had no real power at all. He should have had more faith in his friends and let Sheridian and Delenn know what's going on, but then we wouldn't have a show "Would We?".
Thanks
Car


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[Jomar]

You can't blame Sheridan for thinking the Centauri were behind the attacks. They were Centauri ships destroying Alliance ships. When Londo found out the truth he had to keep it a secret to keep the Drakh from destroying Centauri Prime.

It was only natural for Sheridan to demand reparations and he did try to soften the blow but was rebuffed by Londo.

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

 

[Quagmire]

Let's face it the Centauri's recent history made beliving the Centauri were at fault reasonable. Also while the Centauri were manipulated into taking the blame it was their own actions that put them into a position where they were susceptible to manipulation. Even while the Drakh were entrenched on Centauri Prime the nobility could have been more vigilant in investigating the possibility that Centauri ships were doing the damage.

Yes the the reparations were unfortunate just as they were in the post WWI era but much like in that era anger from the allies likely left Sheridan with no other choice.

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"I was free to wallow in my own crapulence." -Mr. Burns in "Who Shot Mr. Burns Part Two"

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> when it was really the drawk the whole time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're going to be a Great One, you have to learn how the spell DRAKH.

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[En'til'zha]

You can't really blame Sheridan. He's only the president of the Alliance, a diplomatic organisation. He in himself doesn't have much control over the decisions made by the Alliance. He would have to go along with whatever decision the majority of the Alliance wished to take.

Look at the actions of the Centauri in the past, before we even get to the war. They have conquored and enslaved the Narns twice, exploited and strip-mined their world and needlessly killed millions of their citizens. Then, they engaged in a series of boarder wars with many of the League worlds. They then sheltered the Shadows on their homeworld at a period when practically the whole galaxy was at war with them.

Also lets not forget that they are major trade rivals with many races, including the Drazi.

Then, from the point of view of the other races, they, or at least a faction within their government had just lauched a series of unprovoked and devastating attacks against civilian targets (remind you of anything thats been in the news recently?).

Politically heavy reparations would benefit many of the Alliance worlds. The Narns would see it as being particularly just. Also, it's good PR to make them pay heavily as it satisfies the public who will be feeling very angry and hurt by the attacks.

Considering that Sheridan knows his history very well (how many people now would be able to tell you about Coventry, let alone in two hundred years time) he would not have wanted to punish the Centauri to such an extent, but it wasn't just his desision.

As for the remark about him loosing his temper at Londo, that had nothing to do with the reparations. He'd just been through a very sressful experience, not to mention the year he'd had previously. He went to Londo to offer his help, but was shot down. Londo was being very arrogant (as the Centauri usually are) and refused his help. He just snapped at him, that's all. He wouldn't cripple his planet's economy just to spite him.



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"Watch the Shadows, they move when you're not looking..."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The Centauri did many thing that the othe races did during to Shadow war. They wern't the only one who went to war with other races. But thats not the point i was making. I'm just saying that considering that sheridan is the leader of the alliance, he should of made less of an effort to change the price. Also Londo's sudden change in behavior didn't seem to cause to much alarm, especially Sheridan, with all of the flashes to the future you'd think he'd see it coming, but then agian i'm saying this after i know what happened so i cant say to much. I'm just trying to say that everybody was positive that the Centauri were behind the attacks and they were wrong, and it may have not been the right idea on Sheridan's part to exclude Londo from the suspision.s

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you cannot make history, only hope to survive it.

 

[taichidave]

Sometimes, I think the series could be titled thusly:

"Babylon 5: What Goes Around Comes Around"

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"We are (not) all Kosh."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah, maybe the Centauri did get screwed, but not by Sheridan or the Alliance.

A lot of unfortunate events lead up the Fall of Centauri Prime, and Londo feels like he has no choice. He says as much when he speaks to G'Kar before accepting the Keeper.

The Alliance, as willing as they may have been to work something out, had no other option but to demand reparations, especially after Londo slams the door in their face.

Londo accepts his new role with the Drakh, accepts the terms of the Alliance, and keeps the dark secrets of his people.



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Beware the Leopard

 

[bakana]

Everybody seems to be missing the point that the Reparations and the harsh treatment of the Centauri were stage managed by the Drakh.

Londo was their Puppet when he went out of his way to alienate Sheridan & Delenn so that they would not try to help the Centauri.

They respected what they Thought was stiffnecked Centauri Pride in insisting on going it alone.

Remember that the Drakh arranged things so it LOOKED like the Regent had gone Insane and murdered thousands of people using Centauri warships.

That's what the Reparations were for.
The Murders supposedly comitted by the Regent.
Plus the cost of all the Ships & Cargos destroyed.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[Andy]

I'll be honest, Sheridan should've known it was the Drakh. After all he did see the future. At the most he should have suspected something, especially when he sees Londo as emperor in the future, sees Londo promoted to emperor and of course the Shadow tech onboard the Centauri's offensive fleet. I mean, come on! Doesn't that seem like more than a coincidence?

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[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>After all he did see the future.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He saw it, but how much did he remember? How much did he recognize, and how much did he believe? Did he hope to avoid it, or believe that he had already avoided it?

When told of the future, people respond differently. Of all prophesies and predictions, none had proven really reliable. With the exception of those written by Valen, who had solid personal experience.

1. Some may fear a prediction, but fail to take action until too late.

Londo failed to follow his conscience causing great damage as a result. He also missed most signs in Lady Morella's prophesy. He either failed to connect the dots or lacked determination to change his course. So it ended just like it ended.

2. Some may try changing the future, and believe to have succeeded.

I think this was the case with Sheridan. After going to Z'ha'dum, he may have believed that he had done what was needed. He may have thought that in this version of the future, this would not happen. He may have failed to suspect the Drakh, or been unable to influence the Alliance worlds. Or he may have forgotten.

3. Not everyone may believe it.

Some may refuse, and continue on their path without much doubt. They may think that believing the prediction will lead to its self-fulfillment, and hence ignore it. When told by "Morden" that he would betray the Anla'Shok, Lennier chose not to believe it, and ignore the internal reasons which finally lead to his betrayal.

----

In none of these cases have the characters invloved known which future they saw. Was it the future where they had ignored the prediction, failed to take action or taken action?

Ultimately, prophesies are a poor guide, except those of Valen. The future is what you make it, and every action can change it. You may hope to change it or fail to change it, but that misses the point. One should consider and do what is right, and send most prophesies where no light escapes.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited March 02, 2002).]

 

[A_M_Swallow]

The "War Without End" episode did not either name or show the Drakh. So Sheridan did not have sufficient information to know the Drakh were operating Londo's Keeper.

What Sheridan did know was that a member of the Mars Resistance (Jack) had been equipped with something that could be a keeper. Someone on Earth/Mars helped arrange that action. That person knows about the Drakh. Although they would not know the Drakh were targeting the Centauri.

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Andrew Swallow