The Gathering - Vorlon Question

[hypatia]

Yea, that is true.

And the remarkable thing about B5 is just how much didn't have to change as time went on. When a shift or change was necessary, I think one of the reasons fans look for more is that so much of the show was about surprises and twists that actually turn out to have some kind of significance later on.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

We may not know the full extent of what Valen told the Vorlons about his life but they would not have stayed on Babylon 4 without finding out where it came from. The starting and stopping of the Earth-Minibari War suggests the Vorlons knew about the war and the Babylon stations.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

Testing, how? But a show of force? Or do you mean they would have started to fire?

The Vorlons did not fire, they only threatened to fire. They saw that under pressure Sinclair did not run away but lead the investigation himself.

 

[Telepath]

the early production "brochure

What is that? And where do I get it?

 

[Jan]

^^ Well...the last one I saw on Ebay went for $150 I think. You can check out http://zteamproductions.com/babylon5.html to see it, though. Scroll down to the 'keyhole' logo iirc.

Jan

 

[Sindatur]

I never thought the Vorlons knew that Sinclair was Valen, until Kosh actually saw him, and by then it was too late to tell the rest of the Vorlons that the babylon 5 commander was to become Valen.

Additionally, while they knew B4 was an Earth Station, did they know it was called Babylon 4, or so related to Babylon 5?

 

[grumbler]

Additionally, while they knew B4 was an Earth Station, did they know it was called Babylon 4, or so related to Babylon 5?

I cannot find evidence of the discussion that took place many years ago about how Zathras changed B4 insignia and whatnot to disguise its origin, while Sinclair was undergoing the transformation. I thought JMS was involved in that discussion. Anyone else remember it?

 

[A_M_Swallow]

I cannot find evidence of the discussion that took place many years ago about how Zathras changed B4 insignia and whatnot to disguise its origin, while Sinclair was undergoing the transformation. I thought JMS was involved in that discussion. Anyone else remember it?

I remember it.

 

[vacantlook]

Vaguely, but yeah, I remember it too.

 

[Elipsis]

So 3 of you remember it, and yet there is no telling of what is remembered?!

 

[grumbler]

So 3 of you remember it, and yet there is no telling of what is remembered?!

Just that, at some point, someone (I think it was JMS) explained that the Minbari didn't know that B4 was from Earth until they saw B5 because Zathras had removed anything that indicated the station's origins, while en route back in time.

 

[vacantlook]

I've been trying to poke around and see if I can find it, but haven't hit the jackpot yet. So far, the closest I've come is this.

> Did the Minbari agree to help fund B5 after getting a look at the
> nearly finished B4 and realizing what it was?

No, because if you remember, even Delenn didn't know where B4
came from until she came to B5, well after completion.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

The clearing of Babylon 4 may have been in a magazine article.

 

[Dayton3]

The raindrops do not fall upward. (Ask a Vorlon question, get a Vorlon answer.)



Remember how the Vorlons went nuts after Kosh died and Sheridan opened up the "unexpected door" by attacking Z'ha'dum? It's been broadly hinted by JMS that Kosh was a stabilizing influence, keeping them under control. Also remember that no Vorlon has died in a very long time. Combine the loss of their sanity check with attempted murder, and they go a little nuts.

It bothered me at the time too, until I remembered that our perception of the Vorlons as wise, albiet reserved and maddenly cryptic, comes from Kosh alone. The others are a little psychotic. At least, that's how I've always read it.

Agreed. It is hinted at in the show and even more in the fully approved novels that the "Kosh" stationed initially on B5 was "special". That he had feelings for humans not present in other Vorlons.

 

[Telepath]

I don't believe that Kosh was UNIQUE among Vorlons concerning his relatively benign nature. As JMS said, Kosh considered Ulkesh dangerous, Ulkesh considered Kosh weak. I think both represent the Vorlons in a rather extreme way. As a race, the Vorlons seek only good (as do the Shadows), but both elder races have gotten off-track, lost sight of what is best for the younger races. They have become obsessed with the enemy. But their motivations may still be "noble", in a way.

 

[raw_bean]

Maybe not 'unique', but JMS posed the question (as a tease) of which of the two (Kosh/Ulkesh) reflected the common view of the Vorlons more, a couple of times on usenet. The devastating purge of Shadow-influenced planets in Season 4 was the answer - that as a whole, the majority of the Vorlons were in the Ulkesh-mindset rather than the Kosh-mindset, and without Kosh's voice to guide them, they went off the deep end a bit!

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Delenn stated in War Without End I that the Minbari did not know where B4 had come from until they saw B5 and recognised the design.

 

[KoshFan]

So the question that raises in my mind is, did they see the design and then back it financially -- or did they back it financially and then see the design?

 

[vacantlook]

I think these two posts get to what you're asking KF.

link one

Daniel M. Upton <75442.1331@compuserve.com> asks:
> Did the Minbari agree to help fund B5 after getting a look at the
> nearly finished B4 and realizing what it was?

No, because if you remember, even Delenn didn't know where B4
came from until she came to B5, well after completion.

jms

link two

B1-3 were sabotaged very early into production, so the cost was less
than the inconvenience. B4 was where they dumped all the money, and it
was very iffy if there'd be a 5, until the Minbari came up to the plate
and offered to help finance it. For Earth, which was almost wiped out in
the war, it's more a matter of self-preservation.

jms

 

[Dayton3]

By the way.

I gotta say that while I loved the B-5 design.

B-4 was even better.

And it could move on its own.