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the new film .....

D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
in this new film i believe we will see a first one called "the hand"
but my problem with this is as follows

1.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> when the shadows and the vorlons left for the rim lorien said there were no ancient ones left so what happens did some come back ? </font></td></tr></table>

2.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> delenn said that the shadows were old even when the ancients were young but according to the recent ads this race is supposed to be harder than the shads how could this be ??? are the hand the same age as lorien or the second one ???
if you know what i mean lol </font></td></tr></table>

i could be wrong but time is confusing

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"Your patience is also a weapon, when used properly. We will arrive when we arrive and we will have the weapons we have. You can not win this war through force, you must .. understand your way out of this. Sheridan knows. What remains to be seen is whether he knows that he knows."
-- Lorien to Ivanova in Babylon 5:"Into the Fire"

------------------------visit my website - http://www.babylonfive.net
 
Maybe Lorien was wrong. Some may have stayed. There was a thread on this a long time ago, I just can't remember all of the possibilities.

1) Lorien was wrong
2) Lorien lied
3) These are old aliens, but NEW TO US HERE (i.e. they came here to this galaxy, but did not originate here)

I can't remember the rest.

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo
 
Or Lorien was uncertain.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Even a being of great knowledge can be uncertain on some matters -- such as whether a race which seems to have gone away (probably because the First Ones didn't like their habits) would consider coming back.

I would also point out that neither the Shadows, Vorlons nor Lorien are truly gone at that time. Lorien is waiting to finish whatever business he had with Sheridan. The spidery and squiddy ones are waiting for Lorien.

They may be waiting for another reason as well -- to see if "the Hand" tries to return. They would be unsure whether the younger races are ready to defend themselves on their own.</font></td></tr></table>



------------------
"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
 
Maybe they got kicked out from another galaxy, and this is *their* Beyond The Rim!

------------------
The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS
 
I don't know. I kind of thought JMS has said in the past that no, this is IT, the Vorlons and Shadows are gone. Not waiting around watching.

I catch your meaning that Sheridan isn't at the end of his clock yet, so Lorien at least is still around. (Maybe.) But I just got the impression that when the V's and S's left (the "get the hell out of my galaxy") that was IT, they were gone.

JMHO

------------------
"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo
 
To get First One rank a race has to both be old and to have passed some sort of test. The hand may have failed the test.

------------------
Andrew Swallow
 
Simple, the universe is big and there are other galaxies. While someone like the Thirdspace aliens may have to much space to traverse without extra help to make it worthwhile to reach us this may not be so for other races. Perhaps the Milky Way is what is beyond their rim.

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"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny
 
Didn't I read something about those "Hand" being locked away for eons and releaed only just for that film?

That would explain why noone thought to mention them before - all other FO's thought the Hand was put away for good.

And as for their story and relation to the other FO's... well, I'll spaculate about that after I've seen them in LotR... though that "making the Shadows look like Insects" part would indicate an age of Lorien/Triad's time... (Maybe if Lorien was the teacher and guardian of the Ancients, they were the great menance of that time... sort of what the Shadows appeared to be to our younger races...)

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"ShadowScout"
Roman Alexander

"Go on, watch out for Shadows - we'll watch you right back!"

What do you want?
ShadowShips!
 
As far as making the Shadows look like insects, my bet is that statement is not a direct comparison to power level of ships, but perhaps more to tactics or intent. The Shadows were not out to conguer, nor were the Vorlons. "The Hand" (who need a better name in my opinion) may be. The "other galaxy" thing is a good possibility, or Lorien thought they were dead, which he did say some of the "first ones" died. They could have disappeared even when the "first ones" were not "first ones" since they were still young.

Time will tell.


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Come to think of it, the Shadows do look like insects, so I guess the Hand did a good job!
laugh.gif


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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

[This message has been edited by Mondo Londo (edited November 30, 2001).]
 
I also heard that in the movie, The Hand's ships went down....somewhat easier than the big shadow ships did. How powerful can they be? If they made the shadows look like nothing, then why are their ships getting blasted apart so easily. The shadow ships couldnt get taken out, except by the Vorlons, or by Telepath intervention.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
 
What about Sheridan's dream, when Kosh said:

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> You are the Hand </font></td></tr></table>

Did we ever really get an explanation of what that meant?

Do you think JMS could/would foreshadow that far ahead? Or am I really stretching for that?


------------------
Brent Watkins
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BPWatkins:
What about Sheridan's dream, when Kosh said:

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> You are the Hand </font></td></tr></table>

Did we ever really get an explanation of what that meant?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That just meant that Sheridan was the instrument of change.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
Well, while I find many things to be seriously wrong with their name, and the fact that they don't seem so bad-ass, I still think that JMS is gonna do a good job with them. Or else.
laugh.gif


------------------
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
 
I think Ivanova put it well:

"You are the hand? Why would I say anything as dopey-sounding as that?"

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The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS
 
I just wanted to chip in here and say that I hate it when people type "lol".

It's just really lame.

LAMEEE!!!!!!


Ok gee golly whiz guys and gals I'm off lol !

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Hypatia wrote:

I don't know. I kind of thought JMS has said in the past that no, this is IT, the Vorlons and Shadows are gone. Not waiting around watching.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the younger races, they are truly gone. Nobody of the younger races will ever see them again. They will no longer manipulate or support their allies, but this does not mean that they are gone.

The Vorlons have packed up their planetkillers and turned on automatic defenses on their homeworld. The Shadows have packed up the Eye and left Z'ha'dum for their minions -- with a few thigs wired so their tech would not fall into the hands of Vorlon allies.

But they will wait for Lorien. I recall a moment from "Into the Fire" -- a Shadow asking Lorien if it will come with them. Lorien replied that it would. Considering what time means to First Ones, Lorien may have told them:

"Can you wait a few minutes? I have an agreement with Sheridan and it will take 20 more minutes. You can play a game of chess with the Vorlons to practise peaceful interaction."

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 01, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The Shadows have packed up the Eye and left Z'ha'dum <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I noticed an interesting "assumption" here.

Many people seem to assume that the "Eye" is an artifact or Device. I'm not sure why.

Given the Function the Eye serves, it seems to me that it is more probably a Title for the particular Shadow (or group of Shadows) assigned to that job.

The Eye seems to be more akin to the "Ministry of Defense" for Z'Ha'Dum than anything else.

It's a Decision Making position, one that I doubt would be entrusted to a machine, no matter how sophisticated.
Plus, as we have seen from the way the Shadows supply CPUs for their vessels, they tend Not to use intelligent machines.




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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
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